| Fact Vs Fiction on 21:42 - Feb 7 with 2656 views | BloomBlue |
Did Darwin ever smile ? |  | |  |
| Fact Vs Fiction on 21:52 - Feb 7 with 2634 views | sparks |
Good grief. I though this nonsense happened only in the US.
An educational fun play based in facts and science is blocked by religous people.
Meanwhile, state funded schools run religous assemblies, indoctrination and nativity plays.... |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Fact Vs Fiction on 22:23 - Feb 7 with 2602 views | jeera |
| Fact Vs Fiction on 21:52 - Feb 7 by sparks |
Good grief. I though this nonsense happened only in the US.
An educational fun play based in facts and science is blocked by religous people.
Meanwhile, state funded schools run religous assemblies, indoctrination and nativity plays.... |
I thought you'd be impressed.
Crazy huh. |  |
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| Fact Vs Fiction on 22:28 - Feb 7 with 2592 views | sparks |
| Fact Vs Fiction on 22:23 - Feb 7 by jeera |
I thought you'd be impressed.
Crazy huh. |
Its despicable.
And gives the lie to the line about christianity not hurting anyone... | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Fact Vs Fiction on 22:41 - Feb 7 with 2573 views | jeera |
| Fact Vs Fiction on 21:42 - Feb 7 by BloomBlue |
Did Darwin ever smile ? |
I think he was just grumpy that he hadn't invented the picture making thing. | |
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| Fact Vs Fiction on 22:46 - Feb 7 with 2557 views | BloomBlue |
| Fact Vs Fiction on 22:41 - Feb 7 by jeera |
I think he was just grumpy that he hadn't invented the picture making thing. |
Maybe he didn't like cheese and every time the photographer said "cheese" he put his grumpy face on. | | | |
| Fact Vs Fiction on 23:06 - Feb 7 with 2536 views | caught-in-limbo |
That's not only very poor journalism, but it's also triggered the standard reaction of "scientists are always right" and anyone holding a different opinion is wrong from both the public and TWTD's very own.
First up, the article offers no more than "Several families threatened to withdraw their children from the play, ... as they felt one of the scenes “mocked” a bishop involved in a historic debate on evolution."
Whilst we can probably guess what the bishop's views on evolution were, we don't know for sure. Anyway, the bishop being most probably wrong doesn't mean that Darwin was right. And he wasn't, not about natural selection he wasn't.
Darwin's hypothesis, essentially:
Mutations in these genes can produce new or altered traits, resulting in heritable differences (genetic variation) between organisms. ... Over many generations, adaptations occur through a combination of successive, small, random changes in traits, and natural selection of those variants best-suited for their environment.
Has been disproved for about 3 decades now. Epigenetics is the explanation for genes being expressed differently. It has little to nothing to do with "mutations" and there's nothing random about it.
Unfortunately, for some reason we don't want to accept this. School science books still overlook epigenetics, as do many medical colleges. Worse still, most practising doctors today are not up to date with the latest science.
There's plenty of stuff about epigenetics online, but people won't like it because it's contrary to their world view. So, here's an easy UK media title way in for the ignorant and sceptical:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/mar/19/evolution-darwin-natural-selecti |  |
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| Fact Vs Fiction on 23:41 - Feb 7 with 2511 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Fact Vs Fiction on 21:52 - Feb 7 by sparks |
Good grief. I though this nonsense happened only in the US.
An educational fun play based in facts and science is blocked by religous people.
Meanwhile, state funded schools run religous assemblies, indoctrination and nativity plays.... |
But Darwin's theory about evolution isn't completely factual. In fact his "survival of the fittest" through random gene mutation is factually incorrect.
The Scientist / High Priest power struggle has been completely inverted. Scientists over the last 100 years (and more so than ever today) are worshipped like pre-Newtonian High Priests.
A lot of what Darwin says about evolution is not factual, and therefore not science.
Read up on epigenetics. | |
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| Fact Vs Fiction on 23:53 - Feb 7 with 2500 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Fact Vs Fiction on 21:52 - Feb 7 by sparks |
Good grief. I though this nonsense happened only in the US.
An educational fun play based in facts and science is blocked by religous people.
Meanwhile, state funded schools run religous assemblies, indoctrination and nativity plays.... |
'Things should be grounded in fact' says the bloke with an avatar of an imaginary spaceship piloted by a 200+ year old space traveller through a galaxy filled with alien life forms 
Nuts isn't it? (not Blakes 7 - that was cool). |  |
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| Fact Vs Fiction on 23:58 - Feb 7 with 2490 views | SpruceMoose |
| Fact Vs Fiction on 23:41 - Feb 7 by caught-in-limbo |
But Darwin's theory about evolution isn't completely factual. In fact his "survival of the fittest" through random gene mutation is factually incorrect.
The Scientist / High Priest power struggle has been completely inverted. Scientists over the last 100 years (and more so than ever today) are worshipped like pre-Newtonian High Priests.
A lot of what Darwin says about evolution is not factual, and therefore not science.
Read up on epigenetics. |
Imma revisit this one in the morning when it has really kicked off! It's not simmering hard enough for me to meddle yet! |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Fact Vs Fiction on 00:42 - Feb 8 with 2462 views | Sporall |
| Fact Vs Fiction on 23:53 - Feb 7 by Swansea_Blue |
'Things should be grounded in fact' says the bloke with an avatar of an imaginary spaceship piloted by a 200+ year old space traveller through a galaxy filled with alien life forms
Nuts isn't it? (not Blakes 7 - that was cool). |
 |  | | |
| Fact Vs Fiction on 05:13 - Feb 8 with 2393 views | jeera |
| Fact Vs Fiction on 23:06 - Feb 7 by caught-in-limbo |
That's not only very poor journalism, but it's also triggered the standard reaction of "scientists are always right" and anyone holding a different opinion is wrong from both the public and TWTD's very own.
First up, the article offers no more than "Several families threatened to withdraw their children from the play, ... as they felt one of the scenes “mocked” a bishop involved in a historic debate on evolution."
Whilst we can probably guess what the bishop's views on evolution were, we don't know for sure. Anyway, the bishop being most probably wrong doesn't mean that Darwin was right. And he wasn't, not about natural selection he wasn't.
Darwin's hypothesis, essentially:
Mutations in these genes can produce new or altered traits, resulting in heritable differences (genetic variation) between organisms. ... Over many generations, adaptations occur through a combination of successive, small, random changes in traits, and natural selection of those variants best-suited for their environment.
Has been disproved for about 3 decades now. Epigenetics is the explanation for genes being expressed differently. It has little to nothing to do with "mutations" and there's nothing random about it.
Unfortunately, for some reason we don't want to accept this. School science books still overlook epigenetics, as do many medical colleges. Worse still, most practising doctors today are not up to date with the latest science.
There's plenty of stuff about epigenetics online, but people won't like it because it's contrary to their world view. So, here's an easy UK media title way in for the ignorant and sceptical:
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2010/mar/19/evolution-darwin-natural-selecti |
It's a children's play. | |
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| Fact Vs Fiction on 06:00 - Feb 8 with 2375 views | jeera |
| Fact Vs Fiction on 23:53 - Feb 7 by Swansea_Blue |
'Things should be grounded in fact' says the bloke with an avatar of an imaginary spaceship piloted by a 200+ year old space traveller through a galaxy filled with alien life forms
Nuts isn't it? (not Blakes 7 - that was cool). |
So still more likely then. | |
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| Fact Vs Fiction on 06:06 - Feb 8 with 2374 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Fact Vs Fiction on 05:13 - Feb 8 by jeera |
It's a children's play. |
Yeah, I know. I was just trying flagging up a bit of (potential) hypocrisy. People who have built their reality on the word of experts believing it to be proven science are having to reconsider their beliefs. If it is science and fact which is really driving their beliefs, not dogma, then accepting the truth (delivered by science) should be easy for them.
Some people get very upset that kids get exposed to stuff at school which is not based on fact, or rather the word of scientists (or supposed experts). It will be interesting then, to see how these same people deal with a reality which turns out to be that what they thought was fact and good science, turns out to be neither. And despite the fact that the real science has been known for well over 20 years, our precious children are still being taught stuff which is wrong.
It's very interesting. | |
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| Fact Vs Fiction on 06:08 - Feb 8 with 2371 views | jeera |
| Fact Vs Fiction on 06:06 - Feb 8 by caught-in-limbo |
Yeah, I know. I was just trying flagging up a bit of (potential) hypocrisy. People who have built their reality on the word of experts believing it to be proven science are having to reconsider their beliefs. If it is science and fact which is really driving their beliefs, not dogma, then accepting the truth (delivered by science) should be easy for them.
Some people get very upset that kids get exposed to stuff at school which is not based on fact, or rather the word of scientists (or supposed experts). It will be interesting then, to see how these same people deal with a reality which turns out to be that what they thought was fact and good science, turns out to be neither. And despite the fact that the real science has been known for well over 20 years, our precious children are still being taught stuff which is wrong.
It's very interesting. |
Perhaps that could be added to the epilogue. | |
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| Fact Vs Fiction on 07:15 - Feb 8 with 2316 views | sparks |
| Fact Vs Fiction on 06:06 - Feb 8 by caught-in-limbo |
Yeah, I know. I was just trying flagging up a bit of (potential) hypocrisy. People who have built their reality on the word of experts believing it to be proven science are having to reconsider their beliefs. If it is science and fact which is really driving their beliefs, not dogma, then accepting the truth (delivered by science) should be easy for them.
Some people get very upset that kids get exposed to stuff at school which is not based on fact, or rather the word of scientists (or supposed experts). It will be interesting then, to see how these same people deal with a reality which turns out to be that what they thought was fact and good science, turns out to be neither. And despite the fact that the real science has been known for well over 20 years, our precious children are still being taught stuff which is wrong.
It's very interesting. |
More than anything else, this post exposes a lack of understanding of science.
No scientist claims absolutel certainty about anything. Thats the whole point. We keep refining, and are open to new evidence. Unlike religions.
All the evidence demonstrates that Darwin was absolutely correct in his theory of evolution by natural selection. The details, unsurprisingly, have been refined by improved knowledge, analysis and information over many many years- but the basic theory is as close to "proven" as just about anything in science.
This, of course, has no real bearing ont he story in question in any event. The story is about religous people, objecting to a play which is factual, because of demonstrably ill founded religous beliefs about evolution.
The bit about "mocking a bishop" is really innocuous too- it doesnt mock a bishop or religion, it mocks an obviously outdated and misguided viewpoint, in historical context. It really is innocuous, unless you are wed to the idea that the bishop (Wilberforce) holds- in which case I can see that it would be irritating. But you would also be holding a view without rational justification. Either way, it realy ought not to be something which forces a shool to change an educational fun play. Not in 2018 in the UK. In the more backwards parts of the US- maybe.
WILBERFORCE: Mr Huxley, would you be offended if I asked you who the APE in your familywas? Maybe your grandmother or grandfather?(The Resistance laugh with Wilberforce.)
HUXLEY: My Lord, Charles Darwin is saying that we are ALL DESCENDED from apes.The last person in my family to actually LOOK like an ape was possibly mygreat great great great great, great great great great great, great great greatgreat great, great great great great great grandmother!
WILBERFORCE: Yes, and my great great great great great, great great great great great, greatgreat great great great, great great great great great grandfather could havelooked like a MONKEY!
SCIENTIST 1: Actually, evolution happens over hundreds of generations, meaning that youwould have to say the word ‘great’ hundreds of times. To put it moreprecisely, the last of your ancestors to represent a monkey would have beenyour great great great great great....
WILBERFORCE: Enough! Where does your evidence come from?
SCIENTIST 1: Palaeontologists.
SCIENTIST 2: Genealogists.
SCIENTIST 3: Archaeologists.
SCIENTIST 4:Zoologists.
HUXLEY: Along with many other ‘ists!’
WILBERFORCE: Stop using big words to blind us with science!
HUXLEY: My Lord, we are not trying to BLIND you. We are trying to SHOW you.Perhaps our (makes an inverted-commas gesture) prehistoric pageantwould persuade everyone -(turning to Sir Brodie) and Sir Brodie, go easyon the big words will you?SIR BRODIE: (calling offstage) Bring on the first....Unpronounceable Ancestor! [Post edited 8 Feb 2019 7:47]
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| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Fact Vs Fiction on 07:24 - Feb 8 with 2300 views | Herbivore |
| Fact Vs Fiction on 06:06 - Feb 8 by caught-in-limbo |
Yeah, I know. I was just trying flagging up a bit of (potential) hypocrisy. People who have built their reality on the word of experts believing it to be proven science are having to reconsider their beliefs. If it is science and fact which is really driving their beliefs, not dogma, then accepting the truth (delivered by science) should be easy for them.
Some people get very upset that kids get exposed to stuff at school which is not based on fact, or rather the word of scientists (or supposed experts). It will be interesting then, to see how these same people deal with a reality which turns out to be that what they thought was fact and good science, turns out to be neither. And despite the fact that the real science has been known for well over 20 years, our precious children are still being taught stuff which is wrong.
It's very interesting. |
Why do you keep putting science and facts together? You've not read Popper I take it? Science doesn't give us facts, it gives us best working hypotheses that are always open to being disproven. It does so through a method that is more than simply making up stories and 'good science' can still end up getting it wrong. |  |
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| Fact Vs Fiction on 07:32 - Feb 8 with 2293 views | jeera |
| Fact Vs Fiction on 07:24 - Feb 8 by Herbivore |
Why do you keep putting science and facts together? You've not read Popper I take it? Science doesn't give us facts, it gives us best working hypotheses that are always open to being disproven. It does so through a method that is more than simply making up stories and 'good science' can still end up getting it wrong. |
Although I don't doubt that epigenetics could be an influence on evolution as much as anything, I am vaguely interested to know how we've ended up with people throwing boiling hot water into the air - just to see what happens - with some of them ending up in hospital.
Maybe not enough of their ancestors tried it to discover it's probably not a good idea. | |
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| Fact Vs Fiction on 08:12 - Feb 8 with 2261 views | eireblue |
| Fact Vs Fiction on 07:32 - Feb 8 by jeera |
Although I don't doubt that epigenetics could be an influence on evolution as much as anything, I am vaguely interested to know how we've ended up with people throwing boiling hot water into the air - just to see what happens - with some of them ending up in hospital.
Maybe not enough of their ancestors tried it to discover it's probably not a good idea. |
https://www.theguardian.com/science/2015/jul/19/epigenetics-dna--darwin-adam-rut |  | | |
| Fact Vs Fiction on 08:45 - Feb 8 with 2241 views | Herbivore |
Ouch. | |
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| Fact Vs Fiction on 09:22 - Feb 8 with 2208 views | Swansea_Blue |
Brilliant opening sentence. "The legion purveyors of flapdoodle love a real but tricksy scientific concept that they can bolt their pernicious quackery on to. "
Sums up so much of the nonsense we see peddled these days. And with the prevalence of easily obtainable information via the internet, the phrase 'a little knowledge is a dangerous thing' is probably more relevant than ever.
"A little learning is a dangerous thing;
drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring:
there shallow draughts intoxicate the brain,
and drinking largely sobers us again." [Post edited 8 Feb 2019 11:20]
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| Fact Vs Fiction on 10:15 - Feb 8 with 2171 views | eireblue |
Oh crikey.
Hmmm, maybe there is an evil psychologist doing some testing on YouTube.
“O how they laughed at my degree, now they know the true power of the,... hmmmmm can’t think of a cool psychological term that is going to sound evil enough dammit” | | | |
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