| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 13:36 - Feb 9 with 2682 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
DER SPIEGEL:Â Since Thatcher, every Tory leader tried to appease the euroskeptics, but all of them failed. Why has nobody learned a lesson?
Clarke:Â I don't know. This has been going on for years and years and years. You have to keep in mind that most of our national newspapers were bought by fanatic anti-European campaigners like Conrad Black and Rupert Murdoch. The leadership of the Conservative Party was always frightened of them. After this dreadful decision to hold a referendum, David Cameron didn't campaign around the benefits of being in the EU. It would have annoyed the euroskeptics in our party and in the press. He didn't want to upset them. Instead, he told people that they would be poorer after Brexit, that house prices would fall. It was project fear -- and it didn't work out.
.......but Corbyn......! |  |
|  |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 13:41 - Feb 9 with 2660 views | WeWereZombies |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 13:36 - Feb 9 by BanksterDebtSlave |
DER SPIEGEL:Â Since Thatcher, every Tory leader tried to appease the euroskeptics, but all of them failed. Why has nobody learned a lesson?
Clarke:Â I don't know. This has been going on for years and years and years. You have to keep in mind that most of our national newspapers were bought by fanatic anti-European campaigners like Conrad Black and Rupert Murdoch. The leadership of the Conservative Party was always frightened of them. After this dreadful decision to hold a referendum, David Cameron didn't campaign around the benefits of being in the EU. It would have annoyed the euroskeptics in our party and in the press. He didn't want to upset them. Instead, he told people that they would be poorer after Brexit, that house prices would fall. It was project fear -- and it didn't work out.
.......but Corbyn......! |
To be honest I think a significant fall in house prices will be one of the few benefits of Brexit, except that the ability to earn wages will also fall.
None of this will happen overnight, the most telling quote I have seen lately is that Remain have got it wrong by predicting a cliff edge. It will more likely be a slow drip, drip, drip away of our economic power and place in the world. Actually, that has been happening over the last year or so due to the exchange rate and paying more for oil even though the price of crude has fallen. |  |
| |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 13:43 - Feb 9 with 2653 views | Herbivore |
Hard to argue with any of that really. |  |
| |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 13:53 - Feb 9 with 2632 views | Oldsmoker |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 13:41 - Feb 9 by WeWereZombies |
To be honest I think a significant fall in house prices will be one of the few benefits of Brexit, except that the ability to earn wages will also fall.
None of this will happen overnight, the most telling quote I have seen lately is that Remain have got it wrong by predicting a cliff edge. It will more likely be a slow drip, drip, drip away of our economic power and place in the world. Actually, that has been happening over the last year or so due to the exchange rate and paying more for oil even though the price of crude has fallen. |
I half agree with the drip,drip,drip.....
Some of our decline will be due to investment that would have come to the UK but now won't. You can't measure that because who knows whether a new factory in the EU would have been built in the UK. What I do know is that a lot of business investors won't even consider the UK as an option anymore. [Post edited 9 Feb 2019 13:56]
|  |
| |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 15:06 - Feb 9 with 2550 views | BlueBadger |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 13:53 - Feb 9 by Oldsmoker |
I half agree with the drip,drip,drip.....
Some of our decline will be due to investment that would have come to the UK but now won't. You can't measure that because who knows whether a new factory in the EU would have been built in the UK. What I do know is that a lot of business investors won't even consider the UK as an option anymore. [Post edited 9 Feb 2019 13:56]
|
Some of that drip is well under way. My NHS trust is over a 100 nurses down on 18 months ago. Nearly all those departing are EU-born people returning home and not being replaced(recruitment of EU nurses is practically zero and has been for 2 years now). |  |
| |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 15:17 - Feb 9 with 2536 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 15:06 - Feb 9 by BlueBadger |
Some of that drip is well under way. My NHS trust is over a 100 nurses down on 18 months ago. Nearly all those departing are EU-born people returning home and not being replaced(recruitment of EU nurses is practically zero and has been for 2 years now). |
My daughter had a meeting with - shall we say some experts in this field - and the reason why a large proportion of health care EU natives are leaving is because of the state of the exchange rate. |  |
| |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 15:55 - Feb 9 with 2488 views | Freddies_Ears |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 15:17 - Feb 9 by Lord_Lucan |
My daughter had a meeting with - shall we say some experts in this field - and the reason why a large proportion of health care EU natives are leaving is because of the state of the exchange rate. |
That would be the exchange rate that fell around 15% after the Leave vote, and resolutely refused to recover since. Giving an effective pay cut of that amount to anyone from continental Europe. |  | | |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 16:01 - Feb 9 with 2477 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 15:55 - Feb 9 by Freddies_Ears |
That would be the exchange rate that fell around 15% after the Leave vote, and resolutely refused to recover since. Giving an effective pay cut of that amount to anyone from continental Europe. |
Yes - but I don't see your point. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 16:18 - Feb 9 with 2453 views | BlueBadger |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 16:01 - Feb 9 by Lord_Lucan |
Yes - but I don't see your point. |
Basically, Brexit is a terrible, destructive idea, championed by idiots and loons. | |
| |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 16:23 - Feb 9 with 2444 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 16:18 - Feb 9 by BlueBadger |
Basically, Brexit is a terrible, destructive idea, championed by idiots and loons. |
I agree that BREXIT is a bad idea but the exchange rate didn't fall because of BREXIT.................................and there are a lot of people more learned than you or I who think it will be good thing. | |
| |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 16:25 - Feb 9 with 2439 views | WeWereZombies |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 16:18 - Feb 9 by BlueBadger |
Basically, Brexit is a terrible, destructive idea, championed by idiots and loons. |
Yep, I think it is time we can take Donald Tusk's lead and go for the jugular. Or not, and just let the 51% (of 72%) get close to midnight on 28th March before they start crapping themselves too. | |
| |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 16:28 - Feb 9 with 2429 views | BlueBadger |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 16:23 - Feb 9 by Lord_Lucan |
I agree that BREXIT is a bad idea but the exchange rate didn't fall because of BREXIT.................................and there are a lot of people more learned than you or I who think it will be good thing. |
It dropped like a rock in the wake of the vote and has stayed that way. I'm note sure what else you could attribute to it.
And the people more 'learned than you or I'? They're generally outnumbered by people similarly learned who have much better, more informed data and projections as to why it's a bloody stupid idea. | |
| |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 16:31 - Feb 9 with 2416 views | BlueBadger |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 16:28 - Feb 9 by BlueBadger |
It dropped like a rock in the wake of the vote and has stayed that way. I'm note sure what else you could attribute to it.
And the people more 'learned than you or I'? They're generally outnumbered by people similarly learned who have much better, more informed data and projections as to why it's a bloody stupid idea. |
As a by the by, here's an explanation by someone more learned than you and I explaining why the pound dropped.
https://www.quora.com/Why-did-the-value-of-the-pound-fall-after-Brexit | |
| |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 16:33 - Feb 9 with 2411 views | BlueBadger |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 16:25 - Feb 9 by WeWereZombies |
Yep, I think it is time we can take Donald Tusk's lead and go for the jugular. Or not, and just let the 51% (of 72%) get close to midnight on 28th March before they start crapping themselves too. |
Trouble is, they've spent the last 2+ years telling people why crapping their own pants is a GOOD thing and won't want to back down now. No-one likes to admit they've been conned, let's face it. | |
| |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 16:35 - Feb 9 with 2409 views | Championship |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 16:28 - Feb 9 by BlueBadger |
It dropped like a rock in the wake of the vote and has stayed that way. I'm note sure what else you could attribute to it.
And the people more 'learned than you or I'? They're generally outnumbered by people similarly learned who have much better, more informed data and projections as to why it's a bloody stupid idea. |
I can't believe it's going ahead. Unless there is going to be a last minute extension of article 50 and another referendum. There has been more than enough opportunity for May to say we're gridlocked and put her deal versus remain to the people. |  | | |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 16:39 - Feb 9 with 2402 views | BlueBadger |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 16:35 - Feb 9 by Championship |
I can't believe it's going ahead. Unless there is going to be a last minute extension of article 50 and another referendum. There has been more than enough opportunity for May to say we're gridlocked and put her deal versus remain to the people. |
you're assuming here a basic level of competence from May and some genuine interest in the country's well-being from a large chunk of Parliament(on both sides of The House) here. | |
| |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 16:41 - Feb 9 with 2394 views | Herbivore |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 16:23 - Feb 9 by Lord_Lucan |
I agree that BREXIT is a bad idea but the exchange rate didn't fall because of BREXIT.................................and there are a lot of people more learned than you or I who think it will be good thing. |
What? | |
| |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 16:48 - Feb 9 with 2374 views | WeWereZombies |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 16:33 - Feb 9 by BlueBadger |
Trouble is, they've spent the last 2+ years telling people why crapping their own pants is a GOOD thing and won't want to back down now. No-one likes to admit they've been conned, let's face it. |
We could just delay it for three days and then get every TV channel, social media feed and all internet in the UK (and Gibraltar) to play a continuous loop of that penultimate Sex Pistols gig in San Francisco where they play for a few minutes and then depart the stage except for Lydon sneeringly asking the audience 'Ever been 'ad?'. Midnight to midday will fill the brief. | |
| |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 17:03 - Feb 9 with 2347 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 16:28 - Feb 9 by BlueBadger |
It dropped like a rock in the wake of the vote and has stayed that way. I'm note sure what else you could attribute to it.
And the people more 'learned than you or I'? They're generally outnumbered by people similarly learned who have much better, more informed data and projections as to why it's a bloody stupid idea. |
I haven't disagreed that it's a bad idea, that is my considered opinion. I just prefer not to act like a frightened sheep.
The reason why the pound dropped was because of the unexpected result and the pure uncertainty of what lay ahead.
Sterling won't rise significantly (IMHO) until one year after the situation is finalised. | |
| |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 17:06 - Feb 9 with 2338 views | Ryorry |
Interesting related article linked at the bottom of that page -
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/brexit-it-s-time-to-let-the-uk-go-a-1
Last 2 paras - "The Brexit drama saps energy from European political debates and the process of winding down British membership in the EU has exhausted a union that already has more than enough to do. Things such as coming up with solutions to prevent the further rise of right-wing populists from France's Marine Le Pen to Italy's Matteo Salvini. And ways of avoiding a new euro crisis or the collapse of Italian banks, crises that would cause far greater damage than what a hard Brexit would bring.
That certainly doesn't mean that the British should not be given a few extra weeks. Indeed, a limited extension beyond the March 29 Brexit date could be conceivable, perhaps even until the new European Parliament convenes in July. It is unlikely, but if Prime Minister May and Labour Party head Jeremy Corbyn do succeed in finding a cross-party majority for a soft Brexit and a customs union with the EU, or perhaps even for remaining in the single market like Norway, then nothing but good would come of it for all Europeans." |  |
| |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 17:21 - Feb 9 with 2314 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 13:36 - Feb 9 by BanksterDebtSlave |
DER SPIEGEL:Â Since Thatcher, every Tory leader tried to appease the euroskeptics, but all of them failed. Why has nobody learned a lesson?
Clarke:Â I don't know. This has been going on for years and years and years. You have to keep in mind that most of our national newspapers were bought by fanatic anti-European campaigners like Conrad Black and Rupert Murdoch. The leadership of the Conservative Party was always frightened of them. After this dreadful decision to hold a referendum, David Cameron didn't campaign around the benefits of being in the EU. It would have annoyed the euroskeptics in our party and in the press. He didn't want to upset them. Instead, he told people that they would be poorer after Brexit, that house prices would fall. It was project fear -- and it didn't work out.
.......but Corbyn......! |
Rather than shallow nods to his standing (addressing him as “the honorable father of the house”), the Tories could do with actually listening to what he says. He’s either not a Tory or the scheming, corrupt, heartless w@ankers masquerading as Tories aren’t Tories. I haven’t worked out which yet. |  |
| |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 17:46 - Feb 9 with 2274 views | BlueBadger |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 17:03 - Feb 9 by Lord_Lucan |
I haven't disagreed that it's a bad idea, that is my considered opinion. I just prefer not to act like a frightened sheep.
The reason why the pound dropped was because of the unexpected result and the pure uncertainty of what lay ahead.
Sterling won't rise significantly (IMHO) until one year after the situation is finalised. |
So, after telling us that the pound didn't drop because of Brexit, you're telling us it did drop because of it?
And the pound rising is dependent upon us being in a significantly better economic position. Which, given that we've spent the best part of the last part of three years confusing and scaring investors and being hell-bent on making 44% of our international trade more difficult, won't be the case. | |
| |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 17:53 - Feb 9 with 2263 views | WeWereZombies |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 17:06 - Feb 9 by Ryorry |
Interesting related article linked at the bottom of that page -
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/brexit-it-s-time-to-let-the-uk-go-a-1
Last 2 paras - "The Brexit drama saps energy from European political debates and the process of winding down British membership in the EU has exhausted a union that already has more than enough to do. Things such as coming up with solutions to prevent the further rise of right-wing populists from France's Marine Le Pen to Italy's Matteo Salvini. And ways of avoiding a new euro crisis or the collapse of Italian banks, crises that would cause far greater damage than what a hard Brexit would bring.
That certainly doesn't mean that the British should not be given a few extra weeks. Indeed, a limited extension beyond the March 29 Brexit date could be conceivable, perhaps even until the new European Parliament convenes in July. It is unlikely, but if Prime Minister May and Labour Party head Jeremy Corbyn do succeed in finding a cross-party majority for a soft Brexit and a customs union with the EU, or perhaps even for remaining in the single market like Norway, then nothing but good would come of it for all Europeans." |
Now that I have bitten the bullet and bought a nice little Dell chromebook to make up for not having my lovely Moto3 smartphone to browse the web from a phone and having given up on my rubbish HP Windows 10 laptop which started to misbehave after a year and a day of purchase I am able to catch up on iPlayer.
And one of the things I am catching up on is a series on BBC Two called 'Inside Europe: Ten Years of Turmoil'. Fascinating series and perhaps it shows how resilient the EU is becoming (providing the politicians at the top are capable and I do worry what happens when Merkel stands down or is completely voted out). All is not well and I do not think the series gives us anything like the whole story or ,indeed. is free from bias, but it is worth having a look at because it gives perspective. | |
| |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 18:30 - Feb 9 with 2210 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 17:46 - Feb 9 by BlueBadger |
So, after telling us that the pound didn't drop because of Brexit, you're telling us it did drop because of it?
And the pound rising is dependent upon us being in a significantly better economic position. Which, given that we've spent the best part of the last part of three years confusing and scaring investors and being hell-bent on making 44% of our international trade more difficult, won't be the case. |
Brexit hasn't caused sterling to drop because Brexit hasn't happened yet, so it's impossible to say that. Sterling dropped as a reaction to the unexpected result and the uncertainty that we find ourselves in.
FFS I'm sick to death of arguing the toss with both sides of the debate because the bloody lot of you are so fecking up your own arse believing you are 100% correct. | |
| |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 18:36 - Feb 9 with 2200 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Anyone interested in what Ken Clarke is telling the Germans about the Tory Party on 17:06 - Feb 9 by Ryorry |
Interesting related article linked at the bottom of that page -
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/brexit-it-s-time-to-let-the-uk-go-a-1
Last 2 paras - "The Brexit drama saps energy from European political debates and the process of winding down British membership in the EU has exhausted a union that already has more than enough to do. Things such as coming up with solutions to prevent the further rise of right-wing populists from France's Marine Le Pen to Italy's Matteo Salvini. And ways of avoiding a new euro crisis or the collapse of Italian banks, crises that would cause far greater damage than what a hard Brexit would bring.
That certainly doesn't mean that the British should not be given a few extra weeks. Indeed, a limited extension beyond the March 29 Brexit date could be conceivable, perhaps even until the new European Parliament convenes in July. It is unlikely, but if Prime Minister May and Labour Party head Jeremy Corbyn do succeed in finding a cross-party majority for a soft Brexit and a customs union with the EU, or perhaps even for remaining in the single market like Norway, then nothing but good would come of it for all Europeans." |
Hang on a minute! Have I read this right? The EU should be coming up with solutions to interfere in a sovereign nation's general election?
Marine Le Pen is a racist piece of sh1t and her party is made up of vile fascists, but it is entirely up to the French people who they chose to be their President.
The same goes for interesting in the political process in Italy.
This is the sort of thing I dislike about the EU and is one of the reasons I voted to leave. |  |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
