| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? 14:51 - Feb 10 with 15967 views | FrankfurtBlue |
Both Will Keane and Collin Quaner look (very) unlikely to score regularly. Our inability to scout for and/or recruit good players has to be questioned, but is it a result of budget constraints or people not doing their respective jobs very well?
FWIW, I think that Paul Lambert has the ability to put a good side together, but he needs the necessary support. |  | | |  |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 18:27 - Feb 10 with 3271 views | fabian_illness |
The reason we look so toothless up front is that the striker/s are so isolated.
We play so deep with Skuse and Chalobah literally yards ahead of the centre backs. When the ball comes out from the back from defence to midfield, the ball hasn't gone passed any of the opposition. They then have the oppositions forward line and midfield pressing on.
We have a massive hole in the middle with no creativity. So we play like we have 4 cb's and no midfield to link to the strikers. |  | | |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 18:32 - Feb 10 with 3265 views | FrankfurtBlue |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 17:53 - Feb 10 by agentp |
I can tell you what the figure is I have done it FOUR TIMES now on different threads.
If I recall (excluding loan fees) there was a 1.85M surplus. Our loanees would have more than wiped out that!
Five times |
Do you know that, or are you basing that on reported figures and best estimates, or is there a voice in your head wispering you the information?
Sorry, I do not read every message on here! | | | |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 18:35 - Feb 10 with 3260 views | Ace_High1 |
Because we sign dross?
Some of our fans need to be realistic. When we sign players with goal scoring records like Keane and Quaner it is obvious what they are. Yet we suddenly think they will start banging them in.
If you look over the last 5 years we seem to sign players who are no better than what we have. |  | | |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 18:37 - Feb 10 with 3258 views | agentp |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 18:32 - Feb 10 by FrankfurtBlue |
Do you know that, or are you basing that on reported figures and best estimates, or is there a voice in your head wispering you the information?
Sorry, I do not read every message on here! |
The figures are fairly straight forward. There are a few grey areas such a the sell on clause percentages for MW and JG, and whether or not Matt Clarke's value should be taken into account, but it's hardly rocket science. There isn't a huge surplus. We are well into a minus now I would have thought. |  |
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| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 18:49 - Feb 10 with 3248 views | FrankfurtBlue |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 18:37 - Feb 10 by agentp |
The figures are fairly straight forward. There are a few grey areas such a the sell on clause percentages for MW and JG, and whether or not Matt Clarke's value should be taken into account, but it's hardly rocket science. There isn't a huge surplus. We are well into a minus now I would have thought. |
Please don't prevaricate. Just answer the question. It appears to me that you have based your assertion on reported figures.
Also, you didn't answer my previous question "what transfer budget did Evans give Hurst in the Summer?" | | | |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 18:53 - Feb 10 with 3239 views | agentp |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 18:49 - Feb 10 by FrankfurtBlue |
Please don't prevaricate. Just answer the question. It appears to me that you have based your assertion on reported figures.
Also, you didn't answer my previous question "what transfer budget did Evans give Hurst in the Summer?" |
FFS. I KNOW the figures and they are fairly well reported and documented. I am not interested in Hurst's summer budget TBH what has that got to do with it? | |
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| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 19:11 - Feb 10 with 3224 views | FrankfurtBlue |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 18:53 - Feb 10 by agentp |
FFS. I KNOW the figures and they are fairly well reported and documented. I am not interested in Hurst's summer budget TBH what has that got to do with it? |
How do you KNOW the figures? Have you seen the contracts? There always seems to be differing figures when transfers are talked about, derived from different reports. You seem very sure of your assertion though, don't you?
If you want to state that someone is wrong, you should be prepared to state what you think and why. If you cannot do that, please just don't bother in future.
BTW, I asked about the budget because you appear to know it all and that information would shed some light on how much, or how little, our managers are given to work with and therefore the pressure they are under to sell good players in order to re-shape the team. | | | |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 19:15 - Feb 10 with 3220 views | chicoazul |
Nobody good was ever going to sign for us after the start to the season we had.
In the summer will be a different story, hopefully. |  |
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| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 19:15 - Feb 10 with 3218 views | ANNA3ROA |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 15:07 - Feb 10 by ParisBlue |
Keane is not a front man. I'd like to see him play deeper.
Quaner is a wide player not a forward.
I'd like to see Harrison given a run but with some support. |
The midfield is toothless they pass it around but cannot score goals? A J. Wark type player is needed urgent which would also help the front players. |  | | |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 19:23 - Feb 10 with 3213 views | FrankfurtBlue |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 19:15 - Feb 10 by chicoazul |
Nobody good was ever going to sign for us after the start to the season we had.
In the summer will be a different story, hopefully. |
Sorry, I don't buy that. If enough money is put in front of an agent/player/selling club, an escape clause on relegation if on a permanent move, or a loan till the end of the season (as with Keane and Quaner), promises of playing etc, surely we could have done better? Don't ask who. I am not a scout or recruitment professional. | | | |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 19:36 - Feb 10 with 3196 views | mrshallisfit |
Do you need an answer to that? | | | |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 19:38 - Feb 10 with 3194 views | LeoMuff |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 19:23 - Feb 10 by FrankfurtBlue |
Sorry, I don't buy that. If enough money is put in front of an agent/player/selling club, an escape clause on relegation if on a permanent move, or a loan till the end of the season (as with Keane and Quaner), promises of playing etc, surely we could have done better? Don't ask who. I am not a scout or recruitment professional. |
I really don’t think we could have done better, Tbf we recruited better than I expected Judge, collins are exactly what was needed injuries aside and Quanar and bree looked good on paper.
I would have been insane to splash millions to get in top notch loaners when chances are we go down anyway, and they still wouldn’t have come. [Post edited 10 Feb 2019 19:39]
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| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 19:38 - Feb 10 with 3195 views | thejock |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 19:23 - Feb 10 by FrankfurtBlue |
Sorry, I don't buy that. If enough money is put in front of an agent/player/selling club, an escape clause on relegation if on a permanent move, or a loan till the end of the season (as with Keane and Quaner), promises of playing etc, surely we could have done better? Don't ask who. I am not a scout or recruitment professional. |
The real disappointment of the window wasn’t just the lack of attacking options but the donkeys signed in defence
The scouting dept needs a complete overhaul in the summer | | | |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 19:38 - Feb 10 with 3192 views | agentp |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 19:11 - Feb 10 by FrankfurtBlue |
How do you KNOW the figures? Have you seen the contracts? There always seems to be differing figures when transfers are talked about, derived from different reports. You seem very sure of your assertion though, don't you?
If you want to state that someone is wrong, you should be prepared to state what you think and why. If you cannot do that, please just don't bother in future.
BTW, I asked about the budget because you appear to know it all and that information would shed some light on how much, or how little, our managers are given to work with and therefore the pressure they are under to sell good players in order to re-shape the team. |
Blimey,
Okay, Well firstly the figures we are talking about are hardly top secret. Phil has reported them fairly accurately - I am sure. I am also an agent to the R&F (not a football agent) and our paths often overlap. I know fairly accurately what is going on.
Your estimate of £4m was so wide of the mark it needed to be corrected. A million I wouldnt have bothered.
Regarding the budget. I think this was an evolving figure thrown into disaray by the departures of AW, MW nad JG. Neither of those were forced sales. They all wanted to leave. | |
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| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 19:44 - Feb 10 with 3184 views | agentp |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 19:23 - Feb 10 by FrankfurtBlue |
Sorry, I don't buy that. If enough money is put in front of an agent/player/selling club, an escape clause on relegation if on a permanent move, or a loan till the end of the season (as with Keane and Quaner), promises of playing etc, surely we could have done better? Don't ask who. I am not a scout or recruitment professional. |
Don't underestimate the effect relegation will have on a career. The fact the club is in that position may suggest risk. Any defender or striker at the club currently is hardly going up in stock. | |
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| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 07:14 - Feb 11 with 3149 views | FrankfurtBlue |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 19:38 - Feb 10 by agentp |
Blimey,
Okay, Well firstly the figures we are talking about are hardly top secret. Phil has reported them fairly accurately - I am sure. I am also an agent to the R&F (not a football agent) and our paths often overlap. I know fairly accurately what is going on.
Your estimate of £4m was so wide of the mark it needed to be corrected. A million I wouldnt have bothered.
Regarding the budget. I think this was an evolving figure thrown into disaray by the departures of AW, MW nad JG. Neither of those were forced sales. They all wanted to leave. |
So now, at long last, we have established that you have no greater insight into the transfer fees than anyone else, yet you continue to dispute my estimate of a £4m surplus with your figure of £1.85m. My initial figures were quickly calculated, but it seems that Phil's reported figures at the time of each transfer and those of the EADT on Hurst's departure verify my estimate remarkably well:
https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/paul-hurst-sacked-as-ipswich-town-manager-1-5752422
TRANSFERS
OUT: Adam Webster (£3.5m), Joe Garner (£1.25m) and Martyn Waghorn (£5m)
IN: Jordan Roberts (Crawley, free), Trevoh Chalobah (Chelsea, loan), Gwion Edwards (Peterborough, £700k), Ellis Harrison (Bristol City, £750k), Janoi Donacien (Accrington Stanley, loan with view to £750k), Tayo Edun (Fulham, loan), Jon Nolan, Toto Nsiala (both Shrewsbury, combined £2m), Kayden Jackson (Accrington Stanley, £1.6m), Jordan Graham (Wolves, loan), Jon Walters (Burnley, loan), Matthew Pennington (Everton, loan).
OUT = £9.75m (not including any add-ons, or the Ben Knight £1m+)
IN = £5.8m
How do you get to £1.85m? | | | |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 07:19 - Feb 11 with 3147 views | Ely_Blue |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 15:10 - Feb 10 by christiand |
You get what you pay for, it's as simple as that. If we had serious thoughts of staying up ME had to dig deep and get a proven striker in and that was going to cost serious money. That's why we've ended up with Keane and the other fella!! Just not good enough to keep us up I'm afraid. |
It’s not as simple as that though, we are bottom of the league, cut adrift and who do you suggest we should have signed? Messi? It’s not a case of throwing £10m to buy a striker and then pay him £40k a week for 2 years.
Do you not understand that anyone decent is not going to sign for a team in that position on a long term deal? Therefore we were left with loanees or free agents and I didn’t see too many of those around in the January transfer window. Are you suggesting we should have gone for Mr “I can play 20 minutes” Crouch? |  |
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| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 13:01 - Feb 11 with 3110 views | agentp |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 07:14 - Feb 11 by FrankfurtBlue |
So now, at long last, we have established that you have no greater insight into the transfer fees than anyone else, yet you continue to dispute my estimate of a £4m surplus with your figure of £1.85m. My initial figures were quickly calculated, but it seems that Phil's reported figures at the time of each transfer and those of the EADT on Hurst's departure verify my estimate remarkably well:
https://www.eadt.co.uk/sport/paul-hurst-sacked-as-ipswich-town-manager-1-5752422
TRANSFERS
OUT: Adam Webster (£3.5m), Joe Garner (£1.25m) and Martyn Waghorn (£5m)
IN: Jordan Roberts (Crawley, free), Trevoh Chalobah (Chelsea, loan), Gwion Edwards (Peterborough, £700k), Ellis Harrison (Bristol City, £750k), Janoi Donacien (Accrington Stanley, loan with view to £750k), Tayo Edun (Fulham, loan), Jon Nolan, Toto Nsiala (both Shrewsbury, combined £2m), Kayden Jackson (Accrington Stanley, £1.6m), Jordan Graham (Wolves, loan), Jon Walters (Burnley, loan), Matthew Pennington (Everton, loan).
OUT = £9.75m (not including any add-ons, or the Ben Knight £1m+)
IN = £5.8m
How do you get to £1.85m? |
Oh trust me pal, I have a great insight. It would be p1ss poor to discuss my day job on here though.
You have forgotten to include all the sell on sell on clauses for MW, AW and JG; they come to a figure of around £2m BTW, but the Matt Clarke value affects that slightly. The figures quoted for KJ and the Shrews deal are a little on the low end. The £1.6 and the £2m figures will show a slight variation when you see the end of season figures, so be prepared to add on 0.375m to the bill. Now take off the significant sell-ons (You know your wage has a net figure right? You don't see your gross do you, and you will see my £1.85m :)
Now then, care to have a stab at the loan fees, agent fees and signing on fees too? or have you chosen to ignore those as well. [Post edited 11 Feb 2019 13:15]
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| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 13:07 - Feb 11 with 3104 views | Blackboots |
Aguero would struggle to score for us. It’s not down to bad finishing but an inability by our midfielders to provide quality service either from the wings or through the middle. I don’t think we missed a chance yesterday, we didn’t create any. | |
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| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 13:39 - Feb 11 with 3086 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 18:32 - Feb 10 by FrankfurtBlue |
Do you know that, or are you basing that on reported figures and best estimates, or is there a voice in your head wispering you the information?
Sorry, I do not read every message on here! |
Transfer market lists the following.
Earnings/expenditures Arrivals/Departures Fee
Income (23 departures) 11,00 Mill. €
Expenditures (25 arrivals) 3,43 Mill. €
Total results +7,57 Mill. € 'profit'
This does exclude loan fees. No idea how much these would be, but I'd be very surprised if we're paying over £1m a season for anyone (e.g. Judge was announced as "nominal" so effectively no fee). It also includes returning loan players in the figures, so overestimates the number of new arrivals.
We'd have to go some with this lot to have spent the profit on transfers on laoon fees. Although anything is possible I suppose. |  |
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| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 14:10 - Feb 11 with 3065 views | FrimleyBlue |
People keep talking about strikers. They do need chances to score. If our strikers scored 1 in every 2 chances, they wouldn't be playing for us.
So we're looking at maybe 3 or 4 maybe 5 chances in a game. Our midfield don't actually provide those chances. |  |
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| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 14:26 - Feb 11 with 3060 views | agentp |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 13:39 - Feb 11 by Swansea_Blue |
Transfer market lists the following.
Earnings/expenditures Arrivals/Departures Fee
Income (23 departures) 11,00 Mill. €
Expenditures (25 arrivals) 3,43 Mill. €
Total results +7,57 Mill. € 'profit'
This does exclude loan fees. No idea how much these would be, but I'd be very surprised if we're paying over £1m a season for anyone (e.g. Judge was announced as "nominal" so effectively no fee). It also includes returning loan players in the figures, so overestimates the number of new arrivals.
We'd have to go some with this lot to have spent the profit on transfers on laoon fees. Although anything is possible I suppose. |
I wouldn't rely on transfer market. Most undisclosed fees don't register. I would be very surprised if it includes all our outlay. It used to include each way fees as well; i think. It's a fansource and little more. [Post edited 11 Feb 2019 14:31]
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| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 15:17 - Feb 11 with 3054 views | marchy |
We can't just splash out on the likes of Pukki mate. We'd have to buy a plane ticket to watch him play, and they're sometimes upwards of £100 these days. | | | |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 15:23 - Feb 11 with 3044 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 13:01 - Feb 11 by agentp |
Oh trust me pal, I have a great insight. It would be p1ss poor to discuss my day job on here though.
You have forgotten to include all the sell on sell on clauses for MW, AW and JG; they come to a figure of around £2m BTW, but the Matt Clarke value affects that slightly. The figures quoted for KJ and the Shrews deal are a little on the low end. The £1.6 and the £2m figures will show a slight variation when you see the end of season figures, so be prepared to add on 0.375m to the bill. Now take off the significant sell-ons (You know your wage has a net figure right? You don't see your gross do you, and you will see my £1.85m :)
Now then, care to have a stab at the loan fees, agent fees and signing on fees too? or have you chosen to ignore those as well. [Post edited 11 Feb 2019 13:15]
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Waghorn was reported to have a 10% sell on clause for any profit, so would total about £475k depending on exactly what the initial fee was
Garner I can’t find anything - but even if he had one that would be about £200k max you’d assume given the fees involved
So what you’re actually claiming is that of the £3.5m received for Webster, we gave Portsmouth £1.3m? |  |
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| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 15:47 - Feb 11 with 3021 views | agentp |
| Why are we still so toothless up front after a January transfer window? on 15:23 - Feb 11 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Waghorn was reported to have a 10% sell on clause for any profit, so would total about £475k depending on exactly what the initial fee was
Garner I can’t find anything - but even if he had one that would be about £200k max you’d assume given the fees involved
So what you’re actually claiming is that of the £3.5m received for Webster, we gave Portsmouth £1.3m? |
Nope. That is what you are insinuating. The figure quoted (to me) was more than that for Waghorn due to the structure of the deal. Webster we can round off to 700 but as I have said there is a grey area on the value of Matt Clarke.
These deals do come with additional costs BTW. [Post edited 11 Feb 2019 15:51]
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