John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 07:54 - Feb 14 with 5287 views | Steve_M | The whole recent 'debate' on Churchill has been facile point scoring that makes the politics threads on here look balanced and mature. Churchill is a massively contradictory figure, one that might benefit from (more) serious historical analysis but that is too much like hard work clearly. Good thing there is nothing catastrophically important going on at the moment that politicians and media commentators should be concerned with. | |
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John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 08:04 - Feb 14 with 5256 views | Guthrum | It's an old Labour myth - "Churchill ordered the army to shoot striking miners". That never happened. The army didn't shoot anyone in South Wales in 1910. The myth was reinforced by pictures of Churchill with armed police and soldiers at the Sidney Street Siege the following year. It was a particularly vicious industrial dispute, however. Including riots, battles with the police and, in the aftermath, considerable emigration from the area. The period before the outbreak of war in 1914 was a difficult one, economically. | |
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John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 08:23 - Feb 14 with 5220 views | WD19 | I am more concerned that the shadow chancellor ran up a 100% overspend on words. Doesn’t bode well. | | | |
John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 08:28 - Feb 14 with 5202 views | BackToRussia |
John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 08:04 - Feb 14 by Guthrum | It's an old Labour myth - "Churchill ordered the army to shoot striking miners". That never happened. The army didn't shoot anyone in South Wales in 1910. The myth was reinforced by pictures of Churchill with armed police and soldiers at the Sidney Street Siege the following year. It was a particularly vicious industrial dispute, however. Including riots, battles with the police and, in the aftermath, considerable emigration from the area. The period before the outbreak of war in 1914 was a difficult one, economically. |
How did the miner die then? | |
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John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 08:40 - Feb 14 with 5170 views | 26_Paz |
John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 07:54 - Feb 14 by Steve_M | The whole recent 'debate' on Churchill has been facile point scoring that makes the politics threads on here look balanced and mature. Churchill is a massively contradictory figure, one that might benefit from (more) serious historical analysis but that is too much like hard work clearly. Good thing there is nothing catastrophically important going on at the moment that politicians and media commentators should be concerned with. |
Its almost as if he's actively trying to stop people voting for him | |
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John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 08:48 - Feb 14 with 5157 views | lowhouseblue | john mcdonnell still fighting political battles form a century ago - not really news is it. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 09:04 - Feb 14 with 5126 views | GlasgowBlue |
John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 08:48 - Feb 14 by lowhouseblue | john mcdonnell still fighting political battles form a century ago - not really news is it. |
Since the election he has been doing his best to portray himself as the moderate and acceptable face of Corbynism. But in the last few days he’s been making moves towards the hard left in the Labour Party. Perhaps he’s doing the groundwork for a leadership election. If people think Corbyn has some dodgy views and associations, McDonnell is a real bad bastard. | |
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John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 09:20 - Feb 14 with 5096 views | Guthrum |
John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 08:28 - Feb 14 by BackToRussia | How did the miner die then? |
Head injuries, said to have been from a police truncheon. | |
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John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 09:23 - Feb 14 with 5085 views | lowhouseblue |
John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 09:04 - Feb 14 by GlasgowBlue | Since the election he has been doing his best to portray himself as the moderate and acceptable face of Corbynism. But in the last few days he’s been making moves towards the hard left in the Labour Party. Perhaps he’s doing the groundwork for a leadership election. If people think Corbyn has some dodgy views and associations, McDonnell is a real bad bastard. |
I do think the clock is now ticking on corbyn and that the mania about him personally has disguised disunity on the hard left across a whole range of issues. when he goes the momentum in fighting is going to be a joy - with mcdonnell doing sickly sweet interviews as he tries to stab everyone he can reach. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 09:26 - Feb 14 with 5072 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Does the Spectator one continue....."Churchill-was-a-dab-hand-at-killing-off-the-working-class.....' | |
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John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 09:48 - Feb 14 with 5010 views | giant_stow | I'm sure what I'm about to say must be stupid and must miss the point, but... Even on it's own terms, how can a violent, even murderous repression of a strike outweigh defeating a genocidal maniac? | |
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John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 09:53 - Feb 14 with 4994 views | chicoazul |
John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 09:48 - Feb 14 by giant_stow | I'm sure what I'm about to say must be stupid and must miss the point, but... Even on it's own terms, how can a violent, even murderous repression of a strike outweigh defeating a genocidal maniac? |
Well your Indian would probably ask, which genocidal maniac, Churchill or Hitler? McDonnell knows exactly what he is doing here, dog whistle politics. | |
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John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 09:55 - Feb 14 with 4990 views | lowhouseblue |
John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 09:48 - Feb 14 by giant_stow | I'm sure what I'm about to say must be stupid and must miss the point, but... Even on it's own terms, how can a violent, even murderous repression of a strike outweigh defeating a genocidal maniac? |
because to someone like mcdonnell a class myth from 100 years ago is justification enough to avoid saying anything positive about ANY tory. he lives in a simplistic cartoon world of good and bad that hasn't changes since his grandparents were about. | |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 10:02 - Feb 14 with 4969 views | giant_stow |
John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 09:55 - Feb 14 by lowhouseblue | because to someone like mcdonnell a class myth from 100 years ago is justification enough to avoid saying anything positive about ANY tory. he lives in a simplistic cartoon world of good and bad that hasn't changes since his grandparents were about. |
Thanks for answers chaps. weird sh1t. | |
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John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 10:16 - Feb 14 with 4952 views | ZedRodgers |
Or perhaps he could base his opinion on more than a sole quote from Attlee and an article from a publication which allows Rod Liddle to be a journalist. | |
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John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 10:18 - Feb 14 with 4943 views | GlasgowBlue |
John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 10:02 - Feb 14 by giant_stow | Thanks for answers chaps. weird sh1t. |
We live in an age where the leaders of the Labour Party condemn Churchill as a villain yet praise their “friends” in Hamas and Hezbollah, say we should “honour” members of the IRA for their “bullets and bombs” and name “Lenin and Trotsky”, who were responsible for the mass murder of political opponents and inaugurated many of the communist state’s dictatorial methods, as their “biggest influence”. Stop the world I want to get off. | |
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John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 10:22 - Feb 14 with 4932 views | ElephantintheRoom | It was a onje word qualified answer - and something of a joke. This is the same Churchil who campaigned against giving women the vote, and colluded with Stalin to kill millions during and after the war- that's if we forgive him his lunacy in the dardenelles and the middle east. | |
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John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 10:26 - Feb 14 with 4923 views | Swansea_Blue |
John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 07:54 - Feb 14 by Steve_M | The whole recent 'debate' on Churchill has been facile point scoring that makes the politics threads on here look balanced and mature. Churchill is a massively contradictory figure, one that might benefit from (more) serious historical analysis but that is too much like hard work clearly. Good thing there is nothing catastrophically important going on at the moment that politicians and media commentators should be concerned with. |
Quite. It's almost as if there's some nuances around people actions and behaviours isn't it? No fan of McDonnell (to put it mildly) but he's right about how Churchill is remembered in some parts over here. He's still viewed very much a villain by some - memories run deep in these parts. Having said that this is a populist pandering debate, and yep I agree that it's very shallow. | |
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John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 10:45 - Feb 14 with 4898 views | ZedRodgers |
John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 10:18 - Feb 14 by GlasgowBlue | We live in an age where the leaders of the Labour Party condemn Churchill as a villain yet praise their “friends” in Hamas and Hezbollah, say we should “honour” members of the IRA for their “bullets and bombs” and name “Lenin and Trotsky”, who were responsible for the mass murder of political opponents and inaugurated many of the communist state’s dictatorial methods, as their “biggest influence”. Stop the world I want to get off. |
In the interests of accuracy, you should state that McDonnell actually said Churchill was "more villain than hero". Only a minor detail, but an important one. It's something which will naturally divide opinions, but I would agree that Churchill on balance is probably "more villain than hero". | |
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John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 11:09 - Feb 14 with 4868 views | GlasgowBlue |
John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 10:45 - Feb 14 by ZedRodgers | In the interests of accuracy, you should state that McDonnell actually said Churchill was "more villain than hero". Only a minor detail, but an important one. It's something which will naturally divide opinions, but I would agree that Churchill on balance is probably "more villain than hero". |
No he didn’t. From the BBC “At a Politico event, when asked to give a one-word answer on whether Churchill was a hero or villain, the shadow chancellor said: "Tonypandy - villain". You think Churchill is a villain? Wait until somebody tells you about the bloke he beat. [Post edited 14 Feb 2019 11:35]
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John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 11:55 - Feb 14 with 4817 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 10:18 - Feb 14 by GlasgowBlue | We live in an age where the leaders of the Labour Party condemn Churchill as a villain yet praise their “friends” in Hamas and Hezbollah, say we should “honour” members of the IRA for their “bullets and bombs” and name “Lenin and Trotsky”, who were responsible for the mass murder of political opponents and inaugurated many of the communist state’s dictatorial methods, as their “biggest influence”. Stop the world I want to get off. |
Or maybe the world isn't as simple as goodies and baddies....as I mentioned yesterday you can be very binary despite your supposed rejection of party politics! | |
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John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 11:55 - Feb 14 with 4816 views | hampstead_blue |
John McDonnell really trying to appeal to the masses again on 08:23 - Feb 14 by WD19 | I am more concerned that the shadow chancellor ran up a 100% overspend on words. Doesn’t bode well. |
It's OK, he took the overspend as a tax on the verbose. Both He and JC are throwbacks. Best thrown back.... | |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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