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Diane Abbot on Churchill on 12:50 - Feb 17 by floridaboy
Sounds about right. Probably never heard of Winston Churchill!
*Insert tumbleweed gif here.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Crimes against banter would be the only offense I'd be happy to see the death penalty brought back for.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Diane Abbot on Churchill on 15:52 - Feb 17 by factual_blue
..or how he ruined the British economy in the 1920s, or let over 3 million Bengalis starve in the 1940s etc etc....
... Or how he voted to restore trade union legal rights or how he advocated a minimum wage. No major world leader over a sustained period of time is going to have a perfect record. I think his positives outweigh the negatives somehow.
Diane Abbot on Churchill on 18:40 - Feb 17 by Trequartista
... Or how he voted to restore trade union legal rights or how he advocated a minimum wage. No major world leader over a sustained period of time is going to have a perfect record. I think his positives outweigh the negatives somehow.
It's almost as if most subjects, barring outliers, deserve a little nuance.
Now if only this could be applied to the great Keane or Jewell debate. So many lives lost in that war.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Diane Abbot on Churchill on 18:40 - Feb 17 by Trequartista
... Or how he voted to restore trade union legal rights or how he advocated a minimum wage. No major world leader over a sustained period of time is going to have a perfect record. I think his positives outweigh the negatives somehow.
Which is the point I was trying to make.
The debate should be about the relative significance of various actions. In the case of Churchill, let's not forget that for much of his career he was sidelined and seen as a bloodthirsty troublemaker with poor judgement: that was certainly the view of him by his contemporaries between Gallipoli in 1915 and the fall of Chamberlain in 1940.
Diane Abbot on Churchill on 19:35 - Feb 17 by factual_blue
Which is the point I was trying to make.
The debate should be about the relative significance of various actions. In the case of Churchill, let's not forget that for much of his career he was sidelined and seen as a bloodthirsty troublemaker with poor judgement: that was certainly the view of him by his contemporaries between Gallipoli in 1915 and the fall of Chamberlain in 1940.
Sounds a lot like Paul Hurst. Maybe we got rid too soon...
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Diane Abbot on Churchill on 20:19 - Feb 17 by jimmyvet
what a load of bollox but meets your left wing agenda....please elaborate?
Churchill returned the UK to the Gold Standard in 1925, precipitating the economic disasters that followed in the UK, and doing untold long-term damage to the economy,
Famine in India was not uncommon, but the policies of Empire rarely helped.
In 1943 Bengal the problems were made even worse by British policies of 'scorched earth' ahead of an anticipated Japanese invasion. Up to 3 million people starved to death while British officials begged Churchill to direct food supplies to the region. He bluntly refused. He raged that it was their own fault for “breeding like rabbits”. At other times, he said the plague was “merrily” culling the population. He had said before the war that Gandhi should be lain bound hand and foot at the gates of Delhi, and then trampled on by an enormous elephant with the new Viceroy seated on its back.
And no, these weren't the common views of the time. Churchill was seen as at the most brutal and brutish end of the British imperialist spectrum. Prime Minister Stanley Baldwin was warned by Cabinet colleagues not to appoint him because his views were so antedeluvian. Even his startled doctor, Lord Moran, said of other races: “Winston thinks only of the colour of their skin.”
Diane Abbot on Churchill on 19:33 - Feb 17 by Lord_Lucan
I am a bit of a WW2 buff. In front of me in my living room I have a bookcase full of nothing but books on WW2, from floor to ceiling. Well over 120 at last count, including 9 on Churchill by the likes of Roy Jenkins, Max Hastings, Boris Johnson and Violet Bonham-Carter, who knew him from the age of 6. He was no saint by any means, a manic depressive alcoholic prone to fits of temper so just simply disappearing for days not getting out of bed. By all accounts, including those who knew him best said he was hard work to be around. Politically he had a lot of mistakes, he had work very hard to make a comeback to top-line politics after the Gallipoli affair. But he is a hero because of his leadership in WW2, I don't think there's been a better example in history of "cometh the hour, cometh the man". If we hadn't have kept fighting in 1940 and rolled over the consequences don't bear thinking about. He kept the country believing and defiant, I don't think much of him as a domestic politician and nor did the public at the time who voted him out for Clement Attlee after the war was over but as a war leader he was immense.
Diane Abbot on Churchill on 20:47 - Feb 17 by factual_blue
Churchill returned the UK to the Gold Standard in 1925, precipitating the economic disasters that followed in the UK, and doing untold long-term damage to the economy,
Famine in India was not uncommon, but the policies of Empire rarely helped.
In 1943 Bengal the problems were made even worse by British policies of 'scorched earth' ahead of an anticipated Japanese invasion. Up to 3 million people starved to death while British officials begged Churchill to direct food supplies to the region. He bluntly refused. He raged that it was their own fault for “breeding like rabbits”. At other times, he said the plague was “merrily” culling the population. He had said before the war that Gandhi should be lain bound hand and foot at the gates of Delhi, and then trampled on by an enormous elephant with the new Viceroy seated on its back.
And no, these weren't the common views of the time. Churchill was seen as at the most brutal and brutish end of the British imperialist spectrum. Prime Minister Stanley Baldwin was warned by Cabinet colleagues not to appoint him because his views were so antedeluvian. Even his startled doctor, Lord Moran, said of other races: “Winston thinks only of the colour of their skin.”
Please provide evidence in your rebuttal.
My god what utter rubbish you spout ...It doesn't even acknowledge a reasoned response. Go away and do some proper research not biased by your left wing views and cheap lets bash Churchill views, its so sad you and your left are desperate to try and destroy a man, who clearly not perfect, has done more for the free world than probably any other human being during their life time in past 100 years.
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Diane Abbot on Churchill on 21:31 - Feb 17 with 3818 views
Diane Abbot on Churchill on 20:58 - Feb 17 by jimmyvet
My god what utter rubbish you spout ...It doesn't even acknowledge a reasoned response. Go away and do some proper research not biased by your left wing views and cheap lets bash Churchill views, its so sad you and your left are desperate to try and destroy a man, who clearly not perfect, has done more for the free world than probably any other human being during their life time in past 100 years.
You are using generalised waffle because, presumably, you are unable to respond any other way. If this were a football match between you and Facters he would now be leading you by about 6-0.
Diane Abbot on Churchill on 20:58 - Feb 17 by jimmyvet
My god what utter rubbish you spout ...It doesn't even acknowledge a reasoned response. Go away and do some proper research not biased by your left wing views and cheap lets bash Churchill views, its so sad you and your left are desperate to try and destroy a man, who clearly not perfect, has done more for the free world than probably any other human being during their life time in past 100 years.
Which bits of Professor Richard Toye's conclusions do you dispute, and with what evidence?
Diane Abbot on Churchill on 15:52 - Feb 17 by factual_blue
..or how he ruined the British economy in the 1920s, or let over 3 million Bengalis starve in the 1940s etc etc....
Not end of the world is it, we all get hungry. Did what he did, to end up where he did, to do what he did so you can sit on here and spout sh!t about him.
[Post edited 17 Feb 2019 22:24]
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Diane Abbot on Churchill on 22:31 - Feb 17 with 3634 views
Diane Abbot on Churchill on 22:23 - Feb 17 by Bueller
Not end of the world is it, we all get hungry. Did what he did, to end up where he did, to do what he did so you can sit on here and spout sh!t about him.
Diane Abbot on Churchill on 22:23 - Feb 17 by Bueller
Not end of the world is it, we all get hungry. Did what he did, to end up where he did, to do what he did so you can sit on here and spout sh!t about him.
Diane Abbot on Churchill on 20:58 - Feb 17 by jimmyvet
My god what utter rubbish you spout ...It doesn't even acknowledge a reasoned response. Go away and do some proper research not biased by your left wing views and cheap lets bash Churchill views, its so sad you and your left are desperate to try and destroy a man, who clearly not perfect, has done more for the free world than probably any other human being during their life time in past 100 years.
I can't help but think you won't give him a reasoned response because it's beyond you. If you're going to vehemently disagree with a man, at least pay the onlookers the courtesy of saying why.
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Diane Abbot on Churchill on 22:12 - Feb 17 by Swansea_Blue
What have you got to say about that, eh?
How about - We would need to turn to the Germans to engineer such a marvel these days?
Britannia is ballsed.
[Post edited 17 Feb 2019 22:45]
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
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