| Well done Luciana (n/t) 10:12 - Feb 18 with 26954 views | GlasgowBlue |
|  |
| |  |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 16:09 - Feb 20 with 3105 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 11:55 - Feb 20 by GlasgowBlue |
I did this with him last night. You are I condemn anti semitism and Dolly excuses it.
Most decent people would prefer to be in the former camp rather than the latter. |
I have never excused anti-semitism.
I have also never used it for party-political gain. |  |
| |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 16:16 - Feb 20 with 3089 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 23:13 - Feb 19 by Footballpete |
I’d always call out bullsh@t, and I would certainly never shy away for calling out antisemetism from wherever it came. But I cannot buy this nonsense that Corbyn poses an existential threat to British Jews. It’s not about defending the dear leader, it’s about not turning what is a dangerous thought process in to a throw away term used for political ends. |
I like and respect you Pete but are you seriously suggesting that the three main British newspapers took the unprecedented step of printing the identical front page saying that Corbyn poses 'existential threat' to British Jews for political ends?
I read this earlier from Daniel Sugarman who is a journalist at the Jewish Chronicle. It's a very sad read but he explains so well what a great many British Jews are feeling.
"I can’t sleep. It has been a difficult few years to cover what’s been going on in the Labour Party. But tonight - seeing the actions of certain people who are supposedly the future of the Labour Party - I have been left deeply shaken. I can’t remember feeling this distraught.
It’s the second time I’ve felt this today. The first was when a Labour MP defended an accusation that the MPs who left Labour were being funded by Israel. I felt physically sick. But this is worse. Because the behaviour of some Young Labour representatives tonight was GLEEFUL.
They’re LOVING this. They’re LOVING the pain & misery they’re causing. And the worst part is - they’re convinced they’re decent people. One is a junior doctor, I believe. I’d be terrified to be in their care.
I’m so tired. But I can’t sleep because I’m scared for the future.
It sounds pathetic, I know. A 29-year old guy, can’t get to sleep because he’s scared. But I’m scared because this is completely beyond my control. There’s a hurricane of hatred, howling at me & my friends & my family & my people, and I DON’T KNOW HOW TO STOP IT. I CAN’T STOP IT.
You want to know how I spend my days?
I wake up, I go into the office. I see examples of antisemitism. I then write about the antisemitism (it’s part of my job, after all). I come home, see more examples of antisemitism online. And repeat. Each day. Each week. Each month. Each year.
I’m so sorry to come out with this stuff on here. I try to keep positive, I really do. I try to laugh, to joke - because I believe if you keep your sense of humour, life can be a lot easier.
But sometimes it’s not possible. And I guess tonight is one of those nights.
I’m going to sign off Twitter for the night now. If I am going to manage to sleep at all, it won’t be accomplished being on here.
Apologies for taking up your time. I’m sure you have your own problems, I’m so sorry for weighing you down with mine.
Good night."
For those of you who have dismissed what I have posted on antisemitism over the past few years as smears, just put yourself in this guy's shoes. Or imagine a black man wrote this because he was afraid of a particular political party coming to power. Or a Muslim man with those same fears. I doubt you'd be so quick to dismiss them [Post edited 20 Feb 2019 16:35]
| |
| |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 16:26 - Feb 20 with 3061 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 16:09 - Feb 20 by BrixtonBlue |
I have never excused anti-semitism.
I have also never used it for party-political gain. |
What party am I wanting to gain from Labour's antisemitism?
And I have explained to you before that accusing somebody of Jewish heritage who has a half Jewish wife of having a ulterior motive for highlighting antisemitism is bordering on antisemitism.
[Post edited 20 Feb 2019 16:30]
| |
| |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 16:36 - Feb 20 with 3036 views | ZedRodgers |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 16:16 - Feb 20 by GlasgowBlue |
I like and respect you Pete but are you seriously suggesting that the three main British newspapers took the unprecedented step of printing the identical front page saying that Corbyn poses 'existential threat' to British Jews for political ends?
I read this earlier from Daniel Sugarman who is a journalist at the Jewish Chronicle. It's a very sad read but he explains so well what a great many British Jews are feeling.
"I can’t sleep. It has been a difficult few years to cover what’s been going on in the Labour Party. But tonight - seeing the actions of certain people who are supposedly the future of the Labour Party - I have been left deeply shaken. I can’t remember feeling this distraught.
It’s the second time I’ve felt this today. The first was when a Labour MP defended an accusation that the MPs who left Labour were being funded by Israel. I felt physically sick. But this is worse. Because the behaviour of some Young Labour representatives tonight was GLEEFUL.
They’re LOVING this. They’re LOVING the pain & misery they’re causing. And the worst part is - they’re convinced they’re decent people. One is a junior doctor, I believe. I’d be terrified to be in their care.
I’m so tired. But I can’t sleep because I’m scared for the future.
It sounds pathetic, I know. A 29-year old guy, can’t get to sleep because he’s scared. But I’m scared because this is completely beyond my control. There’s a hurricane of hatred, howling at me & my friends & my family & my people, and I DON’T KNOW HOW TO STOP IT. I CAN’T STOP IT.
You want to know how I spend my days?
I wake up, I go into the office. I see examples of antisemitism. I then write about the antisemitism (it’s part of my job, after all). I come home, see more examples of antisemitism online. And repeat. Each day. Each week. Each month. Each year.
I’m so sorry to come out with this stuff on here. I try to keep positive, I really do. I try to laugh, to joke - because I believe if you keep your sense of humour, life can be a lot easier.
But sometimes it’s not possible. And I guess tonight is one of those nights.
I’m going to sign off Twitter for the night now. If I am going to manage to sleep at all, it won’t be accomplished being on here.
Apologies for taking up your time. I’m sure you have your own problems, I’m so sorry for weighing you down with mine.
Good night."
For those of you who have dismissed what I have posted on antisemitism over the past few years as smears, just put yourself in this guy's shoes. Or imagine a black man wrote this because he was afraid of a particular political party coming to power. Or a Muslim man with those same fears. I doubt you'd be so quick to dismiss them [Post edited 20 Feb 2019 16:35]
|
I would argue that the existential threat headline has political motivation. You know, like all newspaper headlines.
Daniel Sugarman suggests here that 'widespread antisemitism' predated Corbyn's leadership and was a result of the aftermath of the Gaza attacks of 2014.
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/if-youre-gauging-levels-of-anti-semitism-ask-rel
It is sad that he now feels this way and I'm sure that the examples of antisemitism he witnesses on a daily basis are horrific.
This doesn't take away from the fact that Joan Ryan has done this mess no favours with her fabrication and Israeli slush fund. Her actions don't excuse antisemitism, they make the situation worse. Her actions don't give people a right to label the splitters as being funded by Israel, but the specific questions over her actions do remain unanswered. Ryan's refusal to stand down as chair of the Labour Friends of Israel also raises serious questions that I'm sure she will refuse to answer.
There seems to be some kind of barrier that's preventing you from accepting this. Be honest with yourself and figure out what that barrier is. |  |
| |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 16:41 - Feb 20 with 3021 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 16:36 - Feb 20 by ZedRodgers |
I would argue that the existential threat headline has political motivation. You know, like all newspaper headlines.
Daniel Sugarman suggests here that 'widespread antisemitism' predated Corbyn's leadership and was a result of the aftermath of the Gaza attacks of 2014.
https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/if-youre-gauging-levels-of-anti-semitism-ask-rel
It is sad that he now feels this way and I'm sure that the examples of antisemitism he witnesses on a daily basis are horrific.
This doesn't take away from the fact that Joan Ryan has done this mess no favours with her fabrication and Israeli slush fund. Her actions don't excuse antisemitism, they make the situation worse. Her actions don't give people a right to label the splitters as being funded by Israel, but the specific questions over her actions do remain unanswered. Ryan's refusal to stand down as chair of the Labour Friends of Israel also raises serious questions that I'm sure she will refuse to answer.
There seems to be some kind of barrier that's preventing you from accepting this. Be honest with yourself and figure out what that barrier is. |
Nobody has said that antisemitism in the Labour party didn't exist before Corbyn. But it's an undeniable fact that his leadership has seen the problem grow considerably. He's spent his entire political life associating with holocaust deniers, antisemites and blood libelers.
As somebody recently said, Corbyn moved the rock, and the anti-Semites crawled out from underneath the rock. They’re not going back,
To deny this is to be complicit in the growth of antisemitism.
That's me for the day on this subject. Dolly will no doubt accuse me of running away but I think I've said and done enough on this. | |
| |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 16:59 - Feb 20 with 2995 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 16:41 - Feb 20 by GlasgowBlue |
Nobody has said that antisemitism in the Labour party didn't exist before Corbyn. But it's an undeniable fact that his leadership has seen the problem grow considerably. He's spent his entire political life associating with holocaust deniers, antisemites and blood libelers.
As somebody recently said, Corbyn moved the rock, and the anti-Semites crawled out from underneath the rock. They’re not going back,
To deny this is to be complicit in the growth of antisemitism.
That's me for the day on this subject. Dolly will no doubt accuse me of running away but I think I've said and done enough on this. |
If only people like Margaret Hodge didn't keep fabricating stuff you could have slept easier. |  |
| |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 17:10 - Feb 20 with 2974 views | ZedRodgers |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 16:41 - Feb 20 by GlasgowBlue |
Nobody has said that antisemitism in the Labour party didn't exist before Corbyn. But it's an undeniable fact that his leadership has seen the problem grow considerably. He's spent his entire political life associating with holocaust deniers, antisemites and blood libelers.
As somebody recently said, Corbyn moved the rock, and the anti-Semites crawled out from underneath the rock. They’re not going back,
To deny this is to be complicit in the growth of antisemitism.
That's me for the day on this subject. Dolly will no doubt accuse me of running away but I think I've said and done enough on this. |
If you know that antisemitism existed in Labour before Corbyn, don’t say things like "People have been complaining about anrtimsimtsim [sic] in the party since the early part of 2016". It’s misleading at best.
You need to state what you mean exactly by “grown”. Because while there may be more cases of antisemitism handled by the party now, there is also a much larger membership base. The cases equate to <0.1% of members. That’s a very small amount of people crawling from under a rock, whatever way you look at it. It’s also very difficult to compare the volume online abuse to a time before social media was as widely used.
Your claim that Corbyn has associated with antisemites for his entire political career is wild and is just another example of how your distortion of facts detracts from any legitimate concerns.
I tried to show you a number of examples where Corbyn has supported the Jewish community and opposed antisemitism before and after becoming leader. You dismissed it as propaganda as if none of it had happened. Why would anybody listen to you saying he’s sided with antisemites his whole career if this is your approach to discussing it?
It would be nice if one day we could all call out antisemitism without having to go through the ordeal of bringing your misrepresentations back down to earth. | |
| |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 17:15 - Feb 20 with 2967 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 17:10 - Feb 20 by ZedRodgers |
If you know that antisemitism existed in Labour before Corbyn, don’t say things like "People have been complaining about anrtimsimtsim [sic] in the party since the early part of 2016". It’s misleading at best.
You need to state what you mean exactly by “grown”. Because while there may be more cases of antisemitism handled by the party now, there is also a much larger membership base. The cases equate to <0.1% of members. That’s a very small amount of people crawling from under a rock, whatever way you look at it. It’s also very difficult to compare the volume online abuse to a time before social media was as widely used.
Your claim that Corbyn has associated with antisemites for his entire political career is wild and is just another example of how your distortion of facts detracts from any legitimate concerns.
I tried to show you a number of examples where Corbyn has supported the Jewish community and opposed antisemitism before and after becoming leader. You dismissed it as propaganda as if none of it had happened. Why would anybody listen to you saying he’s sided with antisemites his whole career if this is your approach to discussing it?
It would be nice if one day we could all call out antisemitism without having to go through the ordeal of bringing your misrepresentations back down to earth. |
Oh piss of Zed. You knew exactly what I meant regarding my comment this morning. Other people have also pointed this out to you.
TRe your last paragraph, I have listed the numerous anti semites, holocaust deniers and blood libelers he's associated with over the years several times on here. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 17:16 - Feb 20 with 2965 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 16:59 - Feb 20 by BanksterDebtSlave |
If only people like Margaret Hodge didn't keep fabricating stuff you could have slept easier. |
Here is is. Accusing a Jewish woman of fabricating anti semitism.
 | |
| |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 17:28 - Feb 20 with 2941 views | ZedRodgers |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 17:15 - Feb 20 by GlasgowBlue |
Oh piss of Zed. You knew exactly what I meant regarding my comment this morning. Other people have also pointed this out to you.
TRe your last paragraph, I have listed the numerous anti semites, holocaust deniers and blood libelers he's associated with over the years several times on here. |
What about the other paragraphs? You seem to run scared of when presented with numbers.
Sticking by your ‘my facts are right and your facts are wrong’ rhetoric at all costs is quite childish and will get you nowhere.
Sorry for not realising that by saying “People have been complaining about anrtimsimtsim [sic] in the party since the early part of 2016”, what you really meant was that people have been complaining about antisemitism in the party since before 2016. You’re right, it was obvious. | |
| |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 17:37 - Feb 20 with 2927 views | lowhouseblue |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 17:28 - Feb 20 by ZedRodgers |
What about the other paragraphs? You seem to run scared of when presented with numbers.
Sticking by your ‘my facts are right and your facts are wrong’ rhetoric at all costs is quite childish and will get you nowhere.
Sorry for not realising that by saying “People have been complaining about anrtimsimtsim [sic] in the party since the early part of 2016”, what you really meant was that people have been complaining about antisemitism in the party since before 2016. You’re right, it was obvious. |
it has massively increased since corbyn became leader. it's at all not hard to explain why. no serious person is denying that it has hugely increased.
what you and your type succeed in doing, through your endless shifting and denying and squirming and excusing over anti-semitism, is just convincing anyone who takes an interest that the labour party really does have a very serious problem with anti-semitism. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 17:37 - Feb 20 with 2927 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 16:26 - Feb 20 by GlasgowBlue |
What party am I wanting to gain from Labour's antisemitism?
And I have explained to you before that accusing somebody of Jewish heritage who has a half Jewish wife of having a ulterior motive for highlighting antisemitism is bordering on antisemitism.
[Post edited 20 Feb 2019 16:30]
|
"What party am I wanting to gain from Labour's antisemitism?"
It doesn't matter how often I show this line to be nonsense you keep trotting it out. For the umpteenth time, I'm not a member of the Labour Party. Does that mean I don't support them or Corbyn? Weird, because you accused me of being part of a Corbyn cult earlier.
I won't even dignify the other nonsense with a response. | |
| |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 17:53 - Feb 20 with 2890 views | Swansea_Blue |
I’m taking it as a given that antisemitism should be taken seriously and tackled, but if you’ll excuse me for a naive question and a bit of whataboutery, why is the current focus on Labour when as I understand it the problem is more prevalent parties on the right and their supporters. Not looking to sideline the debate, so just a quick answer will do. Is it because the trnd is growing under the changes going on in Labour? |  |
| |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 17:54 - Feb 20 with 2887 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 17:37 - Feb 20 by BrixtonBlue |
"What party am I wanting to gain from Labour's antisemitism?"
It doesn't matter how often I show this line to be nonsense you keep trotting it out. For the umpteenth time, I'm not a member of the Labour Party. Does that mean I don't support them or Corbyn? Weird, because you accused me of being part of a Corbyn cult earlier.
I won't even dignify the other nonsense with a response. |
I’ve said this to you numerous times. When somebody explains that he is of a certain ethnic heritage and has a wife also of that ethnic heritage and someone continues to cast aspersions against the motives behind highlighting racism, then that in itself becomes racist. It really isn’t that hard.
It’s not a case of not being a member of a political party. I have left one. One I was a member of for nearly 40 years. I did that for a reason. Because I was appalled at the direction of the Tory party under May and her deal with the DUP. I will not vote Tory at the next election. I do not wish the Tories to gain any advantage from this disgusting outbreak of labour antisemitsm.
But again, you keep questioning my motives. And you don’t see what is very wrong in that? | |
| |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 17:55 - Feb 20 with 2881 views | Clapham_Junction |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 17:16 - Feb 20 by GlasgowBlue |
Here is is. Accusing a Jewish woman of fabricating anti semitism.
|
Or it means you believe former Israeli minister Shulamit Aloni said that people lie about anti-semitism to deflect criticism about Israel.
Stupid points like this do their campaign no favours because they're so easily rebutted. |  | | |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 18:09 - Feb 20 with 2855 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 17:54 - Feb 20 by GlasgowBlue |
I’ve said this to you numerous times. When somebody explains that he is of a certain ethnic heritage and has a wife also of that ethnic heritage and someone continues to cast aspersions against the motives behind highlighting racism, then that in itself becomes racist. It really isn’t that hard.
It’s not a case of not being a member of a political party. I have left one. One I was a member of for nearly 40 years. I did that for a reason. Because I was appalled at the direction of the Tory party under May and her deal with the DUP. I will not vote Tory at the next election. I do not wish the Tories to gain any advantage from this disgusting outbreak of labour antisemitsm.
But again, you keep questioning my motives. And you don’t see what is very wrong in that? |
You asked what party you are wanting to gain from Labour's antisemitism. As a Tory... and a Tory supporter for many years... that would be the party. Just because you're currently miffed with them doesn't suddenly stop you being a Tory at heart.
You have attacked Corbyn over all sorts. Then anti-semitism became a big issue and you jumped on that with gusto. Another stick to beat him with. That's why it appears you weaponise anti-semitism, and I'm sure lots on here feel the same.
My nan was half Germsn. I don't claim to have German blood running through my veins. I'm not sure you ever mentioned any Jewish links before it all came out in the Labour Party. You seemed to become more a part of the Jewish race when you were attacking Corbyn over anti-semitism.
Apologies - I know that last bit is going to make you angry and want to div list me - but that's honestly how it comes across. Can you not see why people would think like that?
Your continued suggestion that I am anti-semitic, on the most spurious of grounds, is probably the most offensive thing any of us have said. I'm sure you wouldn't have come up to me at Accrington and accused me of anti-semitism to my face, so I'd thank you to not do it on here. | |
| |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 18:13 - Feb 20 with 2847 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 18:09 - Feb 20 by BrixtonBlue |
You asked what party you are wanting to gain from Labour's antisemitism. As a Tory... and a Tory supporter for many years... that would be the party. Just because you're currently miffed with them doesn't suddenly stop you being a Tory at heart.
You have attacked Corbyn over all sorts. Then anti-semitism became a big issue and you jumped on that with gusto. Another stick to beat him with. That's why it appears you weaponise anti-semitism, and I'm sure lots on here feel the same.
My nan was half Germsn. I don't claim to have German blood running through my veins. I'm not sure you ever mentioned any Jewish links before it all came out in the Labour Party. You seemed to become more a part of the Jewish race when you were attacking Corbyn over anti-semitism.
Apologies - I know that last bit is going to make you angry and want to div list me - but that's honestly how it comes across. Can you not see why people would think like that?
Your continued suggestion that I am anti-semitic, on the most spurious of grounds, is probably the most offensive thing any of us have said. I'm sure you wouldn't have come up to me at Accrington and accused me of anti-semitism to my face, so I'd thank you to not do it on here. |
We did this the last time you cast aspersions against my motives. Yet you repeat it. Repeat it again and I’ll pull you on it again. And yes I will say it to your face. | |
| |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 20:25 - Feb 20 with 2740 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 17:16 - Feb 20 by GlasgowBlue |
Here is is. Accusing a Jewish woman of fabricating anti semitism.
|
So now that the evidence suggests that only a small percentage of the incidents of semitism,that you worked for all they were worth to discredit Labour, can actually be attributed to them I am sure you will want to set the record straight. | |
| |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 20:25 - Feb 20 with 2740 views | Ryorry |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 18:09 - Feb 20 by BrixtonBlue |
You asked what party you are wanting to gain from Labour's antisemitism. As a Tory... and a Tory supporter for many years... that would be the party. Just because you're currently miffed with them doesn't suddenly stop you being a Tory at heart.
You have attacked Corbyn over all sorts. Then anti-semitism became a big issue and you jumped on that with gusto. Another stick to beat him with. That's why it appears you weaponise anti-semitism, and I'm sure lots on here feel the same.
My nan was half Germsn. I don't claim to have German blood running through my veins. I'm not sure you ever mentioned any Jewish links before it all came out in the Labour Party. You seemed to become more a part of the Jewish race when you were attacking Corbyn over anti-semitism.
Apologies - I know that last bit is going to make you angry and want to div list me - but that's honestly how it comes across. Can you not see why people would think like that?
Your continued suggestion that I am anti-semitic, on the most spurious of grounds, is probably the most offensive thing any of us have said. I'm sure you wouldn't have come up to me at Accrington and accused me of anti-semitism to my face, so I'd thank you to not do it on here. |
"I'm not sure you ever mentioned any Jewish links before it all came out in the Labour Party"
YES HE DID.
How many more times do I have to say that, only for you to ignore or somehow forget it?
That's why I've shouted it now. [Post edited 20 Feb 2019 20:27]
|  |
| |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) (n/t) on 20:32 - Feb 20 with 2727 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 20:25 - Feb 20 by Ryorry |
"I'm not sure you ever mentioned any Jewish links before it all came out in the Labour Party"
YES HE DID.
How many more times do I have to say that, only for you to ignore or somehow forget it?
That's why I've shouted it now. [Post edited 20 Feb 2019 20:27]
|
[Post edited 20 Feb 2019 20:33]
| |
| |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) (n/t) on 20:49 - Feb 20 with 2699 views | Ryorry |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) (n/t) on 20:32 - Feb 20 by BanksterDebtSlave |
[Post edited 20 Feb 2019 20:33]
|
Be interested in what you said but deleted? You could always PM it if you like.
There seems to be such a lack of subtlety going on in the thread. People can have/hold several motives simultaneously, but be primarily driven by an over-riding one when an issue has a direct effect on them/their family, esp if they feel they are personally threatened.
Many Jewish people abhor the current Israeli govt. policies & politics.
Jeremy Corbyn isn't personally racist or anti-semitic, but hasn't taken strong enough action to stamp antisemitism out in the labour party. It's in his and Labour's) nature to support oppressed people everywhere, hence his doing so with Palestinian organisations.
Many people all over the world, including in the UK, still conflate being Jewish with Israeli politics. Even a poster on here who I'd describe as one of the most balanced, fair, sensible and intelligent posters, did so a month or two back. I commented on it, but no one replied to that point. | |
| |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 20:55 - Feb 20 with 2690 views | Seablu |
| Well done Luciana (n/t) on 11:49 - Feb 20 by BrixtonBlue |
The tooth hurts. |
It was the tooth that booked the appointment.
It needed to be relieved of the intolerable pain as soon as possible. |  | | |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
