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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos 08:04 - Feb 22 with 3934 viewschicoazul

along with our wood burning stoves.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-47306766

But hang on, this is weird. It seems like shipping goods around the world as part of Globalisation and world trade is quite polluting too. In fact it seems that one industry produces more CO2 than.....the entire country of Germany????

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-43714029

But not please lets keep tinkering around the edges and stop people cooking on gas instead. Can't possibly make any massive changes can we, oh no.

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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:26 - Feb 22 with 2485 viewsBlueBadger

'This thing is worse than that thing. Therefore we shouldn't do either thing'.

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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:31 - Feb 22 with 2488 viewsStokieBlue

I was really worried about losing my gas hob but the latest induction hobs are excellent and give plenty of temperature control with 9 or so settings. As with most things, you get what you pay for.

Shipping are trying to address their carbon footprint but it's going to take decades at the very least. If a carbon tax was included in the cost of the product (ie. carbon used from material mining to delivery) then locally source and produced goods would be cheaper I would think even given the economies of scale involved in mass production.

SB

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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:33 - Feb 22 with 2482 viewssparks

So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:31 - Feb 22 by StokieBlue

I was really worried about losing my gas hob but the latest induction hobs are excellent and give plenty of temperature control with 9 or so settings. As with most things, you get what you pay for.

Shipping are trying to address their carbon footprint but it's going to take decades at the very least. If a carbon tax was included in the cost of the product (ie. carbon used from material mining to delivery) then locally source and produced goods would be cheaper I would think even given the economies of scale involved in mass production.

SB


When we moved into our current house, the kitchen had an induction hob. We tried to get along with it. But absolutely hated it. It was truly awful.

We now have a six ring gas burner in our new kitchen. If they want people to switch, the tech is going to have to improve enormously.

It is also relevant that so many pans simply wont work well with it. It almost requires investment in heavy bottomed expensive pans.
[Post edited 22 Feb 2019 8:34]

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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:34 - Feb 22 with 2477 viewschicoazul

So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:26 - Feb 22 by BlueBadger

'This thing is worse than that thing. Therefore we shouldn't do either thing'.


Arent you one of those guys who always goes after me with the "alcohol is legal" line when I talk about not decriminalising drugs? Forgive me if not.

Climate change is an emergency so why just tinker at the edges?

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:35 - Feb 22 with 2472 viewschicoazul

So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:33 - Feb 22 by sparks

When we moved into our current house, the kitchen had an induction hob. We tried to get along with it. But absolutely hated it. It was truly awful.

We now have a six ring gas burner in our new kitchen. If they want people to switch, the tech is going to have to improve enormously.

It is also relevant that so many pans simply wont work well with it. It almost requires investment in heavy bottomed expensive pans.
[Post edited 22 Feb 2019 8:34]


Got to agree that gas is much better to cook on than induction, *but* we are all going to make sacrifices along these lines now. What I wanna know is, how come induction is supposedly so much more efficient?

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:37 - Feb 22 with 2465 viewssparks

So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:35 - Feb 22 by chicoazul

Got to agree that gas is much better to cook on than induction, *but* we are all going to make sacrifices along these lines now. What I wanna know is, how come induction is supposedly so much more efficient?


My immediate assumption would be that there is no wasted heat disappearing into the room. Its all straight into the pan.

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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:38 - Feb 22 with 2464 viewsallezlesbleus

I'm sure a lot of the reasoning behind banning wood burning stoves, is that the government don't take much in tax on the sale of wood for stoves.

The French government are talking about doing the same here in France (they are proposing an annual tax along the lines of a TV license for wood burners). The natives out in the countryside aren't happy about this, as most of them grow and fell their own trees.

Whilst I agree more needs to be done to cut done pollution, I feel there are a number of simple ways that the government could effectively make improvements:
Milk (and fizzy drinks) used to always be in bottles...…
Ban excessive packaging on toys etc. Many boxes are 2 or 3 times the size of the item that is in them and things like kids toys always have tons of plastic packaging and plastic ties etc.
Over here in France, we get weekly "Pub" delivered to the house, by the postman. This is the publicity magazines from the major chains and in most households goes straight into the recycling bins, without being looked at.

As you say Chico, they seem intend on smaller issues, rather than dealing with the larger problem.
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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:38 - Feb 22 with 2463 viewsStokieBlue

So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:35 - Feb 22 by chicoazul

Got to agree that gas is much better to cook on than induction, *but* we are all going to make sacrifices along these lines now. What I wanna know is, how come induction is supposedly so much more efficient?


Induction heats the pan directly via electromagnetic energy whilst gas uses heat. The difference in efficiency is 80-90% for induction and 30-40% for gas.

SB

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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:38 - Feb 22 with 2451 viewsBlueBadger

So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:34 - Feb 22 by chicoazul

Arent you one of those guys who always goes after me with the "alcohol is legal" line when I talk about not decriminalising drugs? Forgive me if not.

Climate change is an emergency so why just tinker at the edges?


The answer is, we should do BOTH.

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:39 - Feb 22 with 2458 viewschicoazul

So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:38 - Feb 22 by StokieBlue

Induction heats the pan directly via electromagnetic energy whilst gas uses heat. The difference in efficiency is 80-90% for induction and 30-40% for gas.

SB


Thank you brother.

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Poll: With Evans taking 65% in Huddersfield, is the Banter Era over?

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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:42 - Feb 22 with 2451 viewschicoazul

So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:38 - Feb 22 by allezlesbleus

I'm sure a lot of the reasoning behind banning wood burning stoves, is that the government don't take much in tax on the sale of wood for stoves.

The French government are talking about doing the same here in France (they are proposing an annual tax along the lines of a TV license for wood burners). The natives out in the countryside aren't happy about this, as most of them grow and fell their own trees.

Whilst I agree more needs to be done to cut done pollution, I feel there are a number of simple ways that the government could effectively make improvements:
Milk (and fizzy drinks) used to always be in bottles...…
Ban excessive packaging on toys etc. Many boxes are 2 or 3 times the size of the item that is in them and things like kids toys always have tons of plastic packaging and plastic ties etc.
Over here in France, we get weekly "Pub" delivered to the house, by the postman. This is the publicity magazines from the major chains and in most households goes straight into the recycling bins, without being looked at.

As you say Chico, they seem intend on smaller issues, rather than dealing with the larger problem.


Maybe the thinking is, the more small easy things we do the greater the nett result? Which does make sense. And presumably stinging the consumer is much easier and more straight forward than going after for e.g. Maersk.

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
Poll: With Evans taking 65% in Huddersfield, is the Banter Era over?

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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:52 - Feb 22 with 2432 viewsClapham_Junction

So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:38 - Feb 22 by allezlesbleus

I'm sure a lot of the reasoning behind banning wood burning stoves, is that the government don't take much in tax on the sale of wood for stoves.

The French government are talking about doing the same here in France (they are proposing an annual tax along the lines of a TV license for wood burners). The natives out in the countryside aren't happy about this, as most of them grow and fell their own trees.

Whilst I agree more needs to be done to cut done pollution, I feel there are a number of simple ways that the government could effectively make improvements:
Milk (and fizzy drinks) used to always be in bottles...…
Ban excessive packaging on toys etc. Many boxes are 2 or 3 times the size of the item that is in them and things like kids toys always have tons of plastic packaging and plastic ties etc.
Over here in France, we get weekly "Pub" delivered to the house, by the postman. This is the publicity magazines from the major chains and in most households goes straight into the recycling bins, without being looked at.

As you say Chico, they seem intend on smaller issues, rather than dealing with the larger problem.


Wood burning stoves aren't being banned, but the government is looking to restrict sales to the models that emit the least pollution. There is a chance that some councils, particularly inner-London boroughs, may seek to ban them in areas with air quality issues, but there is nothing concrete yet.

The reason for doing it is that they emit more particulate matter than a diesel truck, so doing so in inner London would probably be justified due to the concentration of emissions. Conspiracy theories like it's happening because 'the government just wants more tax' doesn't do the public debate on this crucial issue any favours.


With regards to glass bottles, it takes more energy to produce them, and they're much heavier, meaning it also uses more energy to transport them. Plastic bottles aren't necessarily a problem if they are collected and recycled - that's where the focus of efforts should be IMO.

I completely agree that packaging regs need beefing up a lot though.
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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 09:01 - Feb 22 with 2406 viewshampstead_blue

I'm with you. It's bonkers and will ultimately hit those who can least afford it.

We are building some houses at the moment and have done so much to make them 'more affordable'. We've managed to get to a theoretical EPC score of 87 using brick, block, gas, triple glazing, and lots of insulation. It includes underfloor heating (which is cheaper than rads downstairs due to the labour cost).

All the things they want developers to include are too expensive for the average home.
If we had included them on our current development the prices would increase by around 25%.

The wealthy are already filling their homes with heat pumps, rainwater harvesting, wood pellet burners, and more besides. These are not for the average Joe.

Unless there is some kind of radical change in prices, it will make homes less affordable.

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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 09:02 - Feb 22 with 2402 viewssparks

So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:52 - Feb 22 by Clapham_Junction

Wood burning stoves aren't being banned, but the government is looking to restrict sales to the models that emit the least pollution. There is a chance that some councils, particularly inner-London boroughs, may seek to ban them in areas with air quality issues, but there is nothing concrete yet.

The reason for doing it is that they emit more particulate matter than a diesel truck, so doing so in inner London would probably be justified due to the concentration of emissions. Conspiracy theories like it's happening because 'the government just wants more tax' doesn't do the public debate on this crucial issue any favours.


With regards to glass bottles, it takes more energy to produce them, and they're much heavier, meaning it also uses more energy to transport them. Plastic bottles aren't necessarily a problem if they are collected and recycled - that's where the focus of efforts should be IMO.

I completely agree that packaging regs need beefing up a lot though.


This is all sensible. As is the suggestion that lots of little improvements mount up. Packaging makes me really annoyed. had a starbucks sandwich on Tuesday. Square rigid plastic pack, with two compartments, one for each half of the sandwich, then the whole thing covered with a cellophane wrapper. Utterly absurd. As is the inability to buy vegetables without a plastic pack.

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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 09:06 - Feb 22 with 2393 viewschicoazul

So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 09:02 - Feb 22 by sparks

This is all sensible. As is the suggestion that lots of little improvements mount up. Packaging makes me really annoyed. had a starbucks sandwich on Tuesday. Square rigid plastic pack, with two compartments, one for each half of the sandwich, then the whole thing covered with a cellophane wrapper. Utterly absurd. As is the inability to buy vegetables without a plastic pack.


I am increasingly of the opinion that one of the best things you can do re plastics etc is never, ever eat food that you can take away from the place you bought it from or have delivered. Eat in restaurants and cafes.

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 09:10 - Feb 22 with 2385 viewssparks

So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 09:06 - Feb 22 by chicoazul

I am increasingly of the opinion that one of the best things you can do re plastics etc is never, ever eat food that you can take away from the place you bought it from or have delivered. Eat in restaurants and cafes.


Was in London with the kids. Daughter wanted to go to Starbucks. It appears that it is an American novelty she had not seen before, except from her favourite youtubers... Also makes it easy for me to havea cup of tea and a calorie controlled sandwich...

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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 09:41 - Feb 22 with 2350 viewsSwansea_Blue

I wish I could find the video on line, but a few years back I saw some great time lapse footage of the upper reaches of glaciers in Nepal. It showed the clean snow surfaces progressively covered in a layer of 'black carbon' as a few weather patterns rolled in. Black carbon is basically soot particles from wood domestic wood stoves on the subcontinent that has been sucked up into the atmosphere and transported northward by the prevailing winds.

When in first started working on Himalayan glaciers in the early-mid 1990s it was unknown. Within about a decade it was one of the hottest topics in the region as it had become prevalent and had been recorded across the Himalayas. Experiments on this layer indicate it could be contributing to about 30% of the melting of snow and ice in the region.

So in short, what humans do in their homes can have a direct impact in a very short period of time.

This is different to clean gas burning by domestic properties of course, but when we look at the CO2 contribution figures by activity in the UK the domestic source is pretty high (c. 17% of all CO2 produced in the uk - https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attac You can see why they would want to target it.

Globally, shipping is relatively low (only 2-3% of all emissions, as it's a very efficient means of transport - but was forecasted to rise substantially by 2050. As such, agreements have been put in place to reduce levels by half by 2050 and to phase out new ships using fossil fuels by the 2030s - https://www.independent.co.uk/environment/ships-emissions-carbon-dioxide-polluti


Right, that's me done on here for a bit - it's a business planning day. I might be on later if I get to the point where I can't bear it any more .

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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 09:45 - Feb 22 with 2343 viewsDubtractor

So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:34 - Feb 22 by chicoazul

Arent you one of those guys who always goes after me with the "alcohol is legal" line when I talk about not decriminalising drugs? Forgive me if not.

Climate change is an emergency so why just tinker at the edges?


Because capitalism innit.

I share your ire though, humanity is basically a bunch of selfish gits who refuse to compromise on what we have now.

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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 09:49 - Feb 22 with 2329 viewssparks

So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 09:45 - Feb 22 by Dubtractor

Because capitalism innit.

I share your ire though, humanity is basically a bunch of selfish gits who refuse to compromise on what we have now.


Here's the fundamental problem: we have one life. Anyone with any sense wants to have the best life they can. That is always going to be an instincitve tension with trying to worry about the future.

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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 09:52 - Feb 22 with 2323 viewsGlasgowBlue

So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 08:31 - Feb 22 by StokieBlue

I was really worried about losing my gas hob but the latest induction hobs are excellent and give plenty of temperature control with 9 or so settings. As with most things, you get what you pay for.

Shipping are trying to address their carbon footprint but it's going to take decades at the very least. If a carbon tax was included in the cost of the product (ie. carbon used from material mining to delivery) then locally source and produced goods would be cheaper I would think even given the economies of scale involved in mass production.

SB


We only just got a new gas hob fitted last week. We were looking at the induction hob but we've been using gas for all our married life and stayed with the devil we know.

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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 10:02 - Feb 22 with 2312 viewsGeoffSentence

So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 09:02 - Feb 22 by sparks

This is all sensible. As is the suggestion that lots of little improvements mount up. Packaging makes me really annoyed. had a starbucks sandwich on Tuesday. Square rigid plastic pack, with two compartments, one for each half of the sandwich, then the whole thing covered with a cellophane wrapper. Utterly absurd. As is the inability to buy vegetables without a plastic pack.


The packaging on sandwiches is easily addressed, make your own sarnies.

Don't boil a kettle on a boat.
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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 10:06 - Feb 22 with 2307 viewssparks

So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 10:02 - Feb 22 by GeoffSentence

The packaging on sandwiches is easily addressed, make your own sarnies.


2 days in advance, and lug them around london? Life doesnt work that way.

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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 10:07 - Feb 22 with 2307 viewsDeano69

We have a 5 ring gas hob, 2 gas boilers and just about to fit a wood burner.

Meh

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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 10:11 - Feb 22 with 2289 viewsDubtractor

So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 09:02 - Feb 22 by sparks

This is all sensible. As is the suggestion that lots of little improvements mount up. Packaging makes me really annoyed. had a starbucks sandwich on Tuesday. Square rigid plastic pack, with two compartments, one for each half of the sandwich, then the whole thing covered with a cellophane wrapper. Utterly absurd. As is the inability to buy vegetables without a plastic pack.


Plastic packaging on a lot of vegetables plays a huge role in extending their life.

No packaging is great if you eat veg within a couple of days, but if you want it to last in your fridge then packaging is essential.

Its not always the case that packaging is bad, albeit it probably is excessive in a lot of cases. What IS without doubt a problem is how we dispose of things.

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So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 10:12 - Feb 22 with 2286 viewsGeoffSentence

So they want to take our gas hobs away now boyos on 10:06 - Feb 22 by sparks

2 days in advance, and lug them around london? Life doesnt work that way.


Pfft! Lazy.

Don't boil a kettle on a boat.
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