| Fascinating stuff from the Pope 12:50 - Feb 24 with 1097 views | sparks |
What did the Pope say?
In comparing child sexual abuse with human sacrifice he said:
"I am reminded of the cruel religious practice, once widespread in certain cultures, of sacrificing human beings - frequently children - in pagan rites,"
"The inhumanity of the worldwide phenomenon becomes even more serious and more scandalous in the Church, because it is in contrast with its moral authority and its ethical credibility. "
Am I alone in noting the tension inherent in his comments? Not just the obvious easy stuff about how the church has failed to deal with abuse- but more intriguingly, the fact that the entire religion is based upon the concept that jesus (in human form) sacrificed himself to appease god for humanity's sins. Isn't that, at its heart, essentially the same as sacrificing a human (or animal) to a god to appease it? [Post edited 24 Feb 2019 12:51]
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| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 13:22 - Feb 24 with 1048 views | Plums |
You’re not alone, that’s quite a position he’s taken there although I suspect few will interpret it that way. Communion anyone? |  |
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| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 13:44 - Feb 24 with 1014 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
In answer to your final question, no it isn't. It is very different in many ways, not least that in the human sacrifices referred to the victims had no say in it at all.
You find yourself in the company of a theologian by the name of Steve Chalke if you want to investigate that line of thinking further but it is not at all a mainstream one. [Post edited 24 Feb 2019 13:52]
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| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 13:48 - Feb 24 with 1000 views | sparks |
| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 13:44 - Feb 24 by Nthsuffolkblue |
In answer to your final question, no it isn't. It is very different in many ways, not least that in the human sacrifices referred to the victims had no say in it at all.
You find yourself in the company of a theologian by the name of Steve Chalke if you want to investigate that line of thinking further but it is not at all a mainstream one. [Post edited 24 Feb 2019 13:52]
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Didnt say anything about child sacrifice. It was about human sacrifice.
The ancient primitive idea that a death will appease a god in respect of the things which have been done to upset the god. Seems very similar in principle.
Mr Chalke has no better arguments than other apologists- on very brief review he does take a more logical position on this than most- but then tries to reason it away in terms that make no more sense! | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 13:52 - Feb 24 with 995 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 13:48 - Feb 24 by sparks |
Didnt say anything about child sacrifice. It was about human sacrifice.
The ancient primitive idea that a death will appease a god in respect of the things which have been done to upset the god. Seems very similar in principle.
Mr Chalke has no better arguments than other apologists- on very brief review he does take a more logical position on this than most- but then tries to reason it away in terms that make no more sense! |
OK. Edited, although in fact you did say "frequently children". [Post edited 24 Feb 2019 13:53]
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| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 13:54 - Feb 24 with 981 views | Championship |
| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 13:44 - Feb 24 by Nthsuffolkblue |
In answer to your final question, no it isn't. It is very different in many ways, not least that in the human sacrifices referred to the victims had no say in it at all.
You find yourself in the company of a theologian by the name of Steve Chalke if you want to investigate that line of thinking further but it is not at all a mainstream one. [Post edited 24 Feb 2019 13:52]
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Did Jesus have any say in it? I always understood it as God sending his only son. I assume Jesus wasn't briefed in advance although I may be wrong? |  | | |
| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 13:56 - Feb 24 with 970 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 13:54 - Feb 24 by Championship |
Did Jesus have any say in it? I always understood it as God sending his only son. I assume Jesus wasn't briefed in advance although I may be wrong? |
It is further complicated by Jesus being fully God as well as fully human. The Bible is very clear that he did willingly choose though. Not got time to pick out the relevant verses right now but could do so later if you are genuinely interested to know. | |
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| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 13:57 - Feb 24 with 966 views | sparks |
| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 13:54 - Feb 24 by Championship |
Did Jesus have any say in it? I always understood it as God sending his only son. I assume Jesus wasn't briefed in advance although I may be wrong? |
Indeed- though it rather depends on which version of christianity you prefer- some have the trinity as distinct identities and some say its all basic one entity. Of course, if its all one entity, you have to ask why it was necessary for god to sacrifice himself, to himself, as a loophole for breach of rules he created- especially where he, himself, was in a position to decide on the mechanism for achieving forgiveness... | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 13:57 - Feb 24 with 962 views | Championship |
| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 13:56 - Feb 24 by Nthsuffolkblue |
It is further complicated by Jesus being fully God as well as fully human. The Bible is very clear that he did willingly choose though. Not got time to pick out the relevant verses right now but could do so later if you are genuinely interested to know. |
Nah I trust you mate. Thank you. | | | |
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| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 14:00 - Feb 24 with 956 views | sparks |
| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 13:57 - Feb 24 by Championship |
Nah I trust you mate. Thank you. |
If he chose it- why is Judas so reviled? He had no choice in the matter, it would seem... | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 14:03 - Feb 24 with 938 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 14:00 - Feb 24 by sparks |
If he chose it- why is Judas so reviled? He had no choice in the matter, it would seem... |
Of course he did. If Judas had not betrayed Jesus, it would not have meant the crucifiction would never have occurred … but you know that anyway. | |
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| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 14:03 - Feb 24 with 935 views | Championship |
| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 14:00 - Feb 24 by sparks |
If he chose it- why is Judas so reviled? He had no choice in the matter, it would seem... |
No idea. I am a godless heathen.
I jokingly posted the other day about Satan actually defeating God and pretending to be God as he ruled. That is genuinely more likely to me than the widely believed version.
Not as likely as it all being complete rubbish though. | | | |
| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 14:11 - Feb 24 with 912 views | sparks |
| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 14:03 - Feb 24 by Nthsuffolkblue |
Of course he did. If Judas had not betrayed Jesus, it would not have meant the crucifiction would never have occurred … but you know that anyway. |
Yes biut if it was all Jesus' plan, and jesus chose it- as has been suggested... It was always going to happen somehow... | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 14:13 - Feb 24 with 906 views | sparks |
| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 14:03 - Feb 24 by Championship |
No idea. I am a godless heathen.
I jokingly posted the other day about Satan actually defeating God and pretending to be God as he ruled. That is genuinely more likely to me than the widely believed version.
Not as likely as it all being complete rubbish though. |
I am very fond of the question "How do you tell which the good guy is" in reference to god and satan. The latter (if he was the snake) told the truth whilst god fibbed. god inspired the bible- so we only have one half of the story. meanwhile god got involved in genocide, condoning of slavery and acted a bit like a mafia boss "It would be awful if you all went to hell- but if you do as I say, I can protect you from all that... " | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 14:16 - Feb 24 with 896 views | Pendejo |
| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 13:56 - Feb 24 by Nthsuffolkblue |
It is further complicated by Jesus being fully God as well as fully human. The Bible is very clear that he did willingly choose though. Not got time to pick out the relevant verses right now but could do so later if you are genuinely interested to know. |
Mixing up of context; body v soul or spirit
For JC, the human body would just be a vessel to carry his soul / spirit until called back to HO for debriefing; what went well, what went wrong, how could we improve religion, the process of life etc.
Easy to choose the death of the human body went the godly soul is eternal. |  |
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| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 14:18 - Feb 24 with 889 views | Championship |
| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 14:16 - Feb 24 by Pendejo |
Mixing up of context; body v soul or spirit
For JC, the human body would just be a vessel to carry his soul / spirit until called back to HO for debriefing; what went well, what went wrong, how could we improve religion, the process of life etc.
Easy to choose the death of the human body went the godly soul is eternal. |
how could we improve religion
May I say, they've done a cracking job. | | | |
| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 14:19 - Feb 24 with 882 views | sparks |
| Fascinating stuff from the Pope on 14:16 - Feb 24 by Pendejo |
Mixing up of context; body v soul or spirit
For JC, the human body would just be a vessel to carry his soul / spirit until called back to HO for debriefing; what went well, what went wrong, how could we improve religion, the process of life etc.
Easy to choose the death of the human body went the godly soul is eternal. |
That, of course, is another fair point. Not so much of a sacrifice in those circumstances was it? Especially as, unlikel every human facing death, he must have known full well that it was not the end and that all was going to be well. Humans die worse deaths everyday. [Post edited 24 Feb 2019 14:20]
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| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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