| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:23 - Mar 6 with 2192 views | Swansea_Blue |
It must be hard work trying to maintain the 24/7 'news' cycle. |  |
|  |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:30 - Mar 6 with 2173 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
It may well be that, as I am not of black or ethnic minority, I don't complete understand the complexities of these issues now but it all seems to have gotten out of hand.
The issue seems to be that Will Smith, a black man, is going to play Richard Williams, a black man, who is a lot darker in terms of his skin tone. This is apparently an issue for many people - which I will accept at face value.
But at the same time people are suggesting that the next James Bond should be played by a black actor, despite the fact the books clearly describe that James Bond is not black. Bond is fictional so belief can be suspended to a degree, but it can also be suspended in a movie to believe Will Smith is Williams.
It's not like when watching Mandela I was wondering why Luther was running South Africa or why anybody would trust well known actor Tom Hanks in charge of a Maersk Line vessel. Remember when comedian Eddie Murphy was allowed to be a Police Officer in Beverley Hills? What was that all about!
Dr Who can be a woman because Dr Who is an alien that regenerates as a random human form. That is fine.
But a mixed race actress, whose skin tone is similar to someone that is from the Middle East, was criticised for being the princess in Aladdin because she wasn't of Arabic heritage.
So even if they cast Richard Williams with an actor whose skin tone is identical, like was pretty much the case with Aladdin, then what do they delve into next? It has to be an actor with the same build? Same height? Same accent.
Isn't that what acting is? At the end of the day I appreciate we want to promote BAME actors, I get that and it's a good thing but also isn't a film purely going to cast the biggest names they can to help market and finance the film?
Bryan Cranston was given grief for being able bodied and playing a disabled man when a disabled actor could have been used? How would that have worked in the Stephen Hawking film? Would a wheelchair bound actor be able to do the pre-illness Hawking? Obviously not.
Society is one step away from demanding that people in a coma in Holby City are played by people really in a coma FFS. Dead people in The Punisher played by real corpses? [Post edited 6 Mar 2019 13:34]
|  |
| |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:34 - Mar 6 with 2157 views | Swansea_Blue |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:30 - Mar 6 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
It may well be that, as I am not of black or ethnic minority, I don't complete understand the complexities of these issues now but it all seems to have gotten out of hand.
The issue seems to be that Will Smith, a black man, is going to play Richard Williams, a black man, who is a lot darker in terms of his skin tone. This is apparently an issue for many people - which I will accept at face value.
But at the same time people are suggesting that the next James Bond should be played by a black actor, despite the fact the books clearly describe that James Bond is not black. Bond is fictional so belief can be suspended to a degree, but it can also be suspended in a movie to believe Will Smith is Williams.
It's not like when watching Mandela I was wondering why Luther was running South Africa or why anybody would trust well known actor Tom Hanks in charge of a Maersk Line vessel. Remember when comedian Eddie Murphy was allowed to be a Police Officer in Beverley Hills? What was that all about!
Dr Who can be a woman because Dr Who is an alien that regenerates as a random human form. That is fine.
But a mixed race actress, whose skin tone is similar to someone that is from the Middle East, was criticised for being the princess in Aladdin because she wasn't of Arabic heritage.
So even if they cast Richard Williams with an actor whose skin tone is identical, like was pretty much the case with Aladdin, then what do they delve into next? It has to be an actor with the same build? Same height? Same accent.
Isn't that what acting is? At the end of the day I appreciate we want to promote BAME actors, I get that and it's a good thing but also isn't a film purely going to cast the biggest names they can to help market and finance the film?
Bryan Cranston was given grief for being able bodied and playing a disabled man when a disabled actor could have been used? How would that have worked in the Stephen Hawking film? Would a wheelchair bound actor be able to do the pre-illness Hawking? Obviously not.
Society is one step away from demanding that people in a coma in Holby City are played by people really in a coma FFS. Dead people in The Punisher played by real corpses? [Post edited 6 Mar 2019 13:34]
|
Dr Who is a good example. I'm outraged that the people who pilot the Daleks are not metallic enough!
It's nuts. As you say, we're talking about acting. There should be a clue to all of this in just that one word - 'acting'. | |
| |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:34 - Mar 6 with 2154 views | Championship |
Say what you like about the actual debate but it really surprises me that these film makers continue to score these own goals. They know Twitter is going to kick off if a gay actor doesn't play a gay character, trans actor doesn't play a trans character, dark skinned actor doesn't play a dark skinned character etc etc.
Is it deliberate for publicity? On this occasion I can see the issue. Present the story as accurately as possible. |  | | |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:35 - Mar 6 with 2150 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:30 - Mar 6 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
It may well be that, as I am not of black or ethnic minority, I don't complete understand the complexities of these issues now but it all seems to have gotten out of hand.
The issue seems to be that Will Smith, a black man, is going to play Richard Williams, a black man, who is a lot darker in terms of his skin tone. This is apparently an issue for many people - which I will accept at face value.
But at the same time people are suggesting that the next James Bond should be played by a black actor, despite the fact the books clearly describe that James Bond is not black. Bond is fictional so belief can be suspended to a degree, but it can also be suspended in a movie to believe Will Smith is Williams.
It's not like when watching Mandela I was wondering why Luther was running South Africa or why anybody would trust well known actor Tom Hanks in charge of a Maersk Line vessel. Remember when comedian Eddie Murphy was allowed to be a Police Officer in Beverley Hills? What was that all about!
Dr Who can be a woman because Dr Who is an alien that regenerates as a random human form. That is fine.
But a mixed race actress, whose skin tone is similar to someone that is from the Middle East, was criticised for being the princess in Aladdin because she wasn't of Arabic heritage.
So even if they cast Richard Williams with an actor whose skin tone is identical, like was pretty much the case with Aladdin, then what do they delve into next? It has to be an actor with the same build? Same height? Same accent.
Isn't that what acting is? At the end of the day I appreciate we want to promote BAME actors, I get that and it's a good thing but also isn't a film purely going to cast the biggest names they can to help market and finance the film?
Bryan Cranston was given grief for being able bodied and playing a disabled man when a disabled actor could have been used? How would that have worked in the Stephen Hawking film? Would a wheelchair bound actor be able to do the pre-illness Hawking? Obviously not.
Society is one step away from demanding that people in a coma in Holby City are played by people really in a coma FFS. Dead people in The Punisher played by real corpses? [Post edited 6 Mar 2019 13:34]
|
...they are also suggesting that this american man, should be played by an English actor. ;-)
How insulting to americans... cant they find an american? |  |
| |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:36 - Mar 6 with 2137 views | GlasgowBlue |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:30 - Mar 6 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
It may well be that, as I am not of black or ethnic minority, I don't complete understand the complexities of these issues now but it all seems to have gotten out of hand.
The issue seems to be that Will Smith, a black man, is going to play Richard Williams, a black man, who is a lot darker in terms of his skin tone. This is apparently an issue for many people - which I will accept at face value.
But at the same time people are suggesting that the next James Bond should be played by a black actor, despite the fact the books clearly describe that James Bond is not black. Bond is fictional so belief can be suspended to a degree, but it can also be suspended in a movie to believe Will Smith is Williams.
It's not like when watching Mandela I was wondering why Luther was running South Africa or why anybody would trust well known actor Tom Hanks in charge of a Maersk Line vessel. Remember when comedian Eddie Murphy was allowed to be a Police Officer in Beverley Hills? What was that all about!
Dr Who can be a woman because Dr Who is an alien that regenerates as a random human form. That is fine.
But a mixed race actress, whose skin tone is similar to someone that is from the Middle East, was criticised for being the princess in Aladdin because she wasn't of Arabic heritage.
So even if they cast Richard Williams with an actor whose skin tone is identical, like was pretty much the case with Aladdin, then what do they delve into next? It has to be an actor with the same build? Same height? Same accent.
Isn't that what acting is? At the end of the day I appreciate we want to promote BAME actors, I get that and it's a good thing but also isn't a film purely going to cast the biggest names they can to help market and finance the film?
Bryan Cranston was given grief for being able bodied and playing a disabled man when a disabled actor could have been used? How would that have worked in the Stephen Hawking film? Would a wheelchair bound actor be able to do the pre-illness Hawking? Obviously not.
Society is one step away from demanding that people in a coma in Holby City are played by people really in a coma FFS. Dead people in The Punisher played by real corpses? [Post edited 6 Mar 2019 13:34]
|
I think there is a blatant lightening of black stars to give them a wider appeal.
I'm trying to word this correctly but it's noticeable that lot of black singers, mostly female, are airbrushed to look golden, with light and straight hair (Beyonce is an obvious example) on album covers and promo shots. And I believe this is done in order for them to cross over to a wider white audience.
As a big soul fan, the people I like are black, look black and sound black. |  |
| |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:36 - Mar 6 with 2135 views | Championship |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:30 - Mar 6 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
It may well be that, as I am not of black or ethnic minority, I don't complete understand the complexities of these issues now but it all seems to have gotten out of hand.
The issue seems to be that Will Smith, a black man, is going to play Richard Williams, a black man, who is a lot darker in terms of his skin tone. This is apparently an issue for many people - which I will accept at face value.
But at the same time people are suggesting that the next James Bond should be played by a black actor, despite the fact the books clearly describe that James Bond is not black. Bond is fictional so belief can be suspended to a degree, but it can also be suspended in a movie to believe Will Smith is Williams.
It's not like when watching Mandela I was wondering why Luther was running South Africa or why anybody would trust well known actor Tom Hanks in charge of a Maersk Line vessel. Remember when comedian Eddie Murphy was allowed to be a Police Officer in Beverley Hills? What was that all about!
Dr Who can be a woman because Dr Who is an alien that regenerates as a random human form. That is fine.
But a mixed race actress, whose skin tone is similar to someone that is from the Middle East, was criticised for being the princess in Aladdin because she wasn't of Arabic heritage.
So even if they cast Richard Williams with an actor whose skin tone is identical, like was pretty much the case with Aladdin, then what do they delve into next? It has to be an actor with the same build? Same height? Same accent.
Isn't that what acting is? At the end of the day I appreciate we want to promote BAME actors, I get that and it's a good thing but also isn't a film purely going to cast the biggest names they can to help market and finance the film?
Bryan Cranston was given grief for being able bodied and playing a disabled man when a disabled actor could have been used? How would that have worked in the Stephen Hawking film? Would a wheelchair bound actor be able to do the pre-illness Hawking? Obviously not.
Society is one step away from demanding that people in a coma in Holby City are played by people really in a coma FFS. Dead people in The Punisher played by real corpses? [Post edited 6 Mar 2019 13:34]
|
You are comparing a real person to a character from a book. | | | |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:37 - Mar 6 with 2128 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:34 - Mar 6 by Championship |
Say what you like about the actual debate but it really surprises me that these film makers continue to score these own goals. They know Twitter is going to kick off if a gay actor doesn't play a gay character, trans actor doesn't play a trans character, dark skinned actor doesn't play a dark skinned character etc etc.
Is it deliberate for publicity? On this occasion I can see the issue. Present the story as accurately as possible. |
I applaud those who ignore Twitter, more should do so.
When decisions are made based on what the twitter community thinks, then that is a sh1t world.
...is accuracy purely down to the exact skin tone? Do producers need to use a colour chart? I think not. | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:38 - Mar 6 with 2118 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:34 - Mar 6 by Championship |
Say what you like about the actual debate but it really surprises me that these film makers continue to score these own goals. They know Twitter is going to kick off if a gay actor doesn't play a gay character, trans actor doesn't play a trans character, dark skinned actor doesn't play a dark skinned character etc etc.
Is it deliberate for publicity? On this occasion I can see the issue. Present the story as accurately as possible. |
I must have missed the outrage when gay actor Matt Bomer played Neil in White Collar, one of my favourite shows.
Turns out that it was fine for him to play a straight man because he is a brilliant actor and perfect for the role.
However, there are plenty of examples of people complaining straight men have played gay men.
I get it that the under-represented race, gender, sexual orientation needs to be promoted.
But for the people making these shows surely it is about getting the best person for the job, otherwise we are forcing them to overlook the best candidate to promote someone who doesn't deserve it.
That's far more dangerous surely? | |
| |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:39 - Mar 6 with 2113 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:36 - Mar 6 by GlasgowBlue |
I think there is a blatant lightening of black stars to give them a wider appeal.
I'm trying to word this correctly but it's noticeable that lot of black singers, mostly female, are airbrushed to look golden, with light and straight hair (Beyonce is an obvious example) on album covers and promo shots. And I believe this is done in order for them to cross over to a wider white audience.
As a big soul fan, the people I like are black, look black and sound black. |
I think if Beyonce looks 'lighter' that is purely down to Beyonce. Cant ever imagine her letting people doctor her image.
If you heard a sould singer and loved their voice, would you be disappointed if you then found out they were 'less black' than youd like them to be? | |
| |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:39 - Mar 6 with 2112 views | Championship |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:37 - Mar 6 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I applaud those who ignore Twitter, more should do so.
When decisions are made based on what the twitter community thinks, then that is a sh1t world.
...is accuracy purely down to the exact skin tone? Do producers need to use a colour chart? I think not. |
It's not about a colour chart. This is a film about the lives of two women. Can't speak for them but if it was my life as a film I would want my family represented properly. | | | |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:40 - Mar 6 with 2105 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:38 - Mar 6 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
I must have missed the outrage when gay actor Matt Bomer played Neil in White Collar, one of my favourite shows.
Turns out that it was fine for him to play a straight man because he is a brilliant actor and perfect for the role.
However, there are plenty of examples of people complaining straight men have played gay men.
I get it that the under-represented race, gender, sexual orientation needs to be promoted.
But for the people making these shows surely it is about getting the best person for the job, otherwise we are forcing them to overlook the best candidate to promote someone who doesn't deserve it.
That's far more dangerous surely? |
Agreed, has to be said that on the current basis then gay people can ONLY play gay roles. | |
| |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:42 - Mar 6 with 2094 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:39 - Mar 6 by Championship |
It's not about a colour chart. This is a film about the lives of two women. Can't speak for them but if it was my life as a film I would want my family represented properly. |
There is no mention of any complaint from the Williams sisters.
If I were them, I would want an actor who got the mannerisms etc as accurate as possible, and could best play the role. The exact shade of blackness would not come into it. | |
| |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:43 - Mar 6 with 2091 views | Championship |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:42 - Mar 6 by Marshalls_Mullet |
There is no mention of any complaint from the Williams sisters.
If I were them, I would want an actor who got the mannerisms etc as accurate as possible, and could best play the role. The exact shade of blackness would not come into it. |
Fair enough. I do not actually care that much. Just saying I can see the point being made.
For once. Usually I despise Twitter's manufactured outrage. | | | |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:45 - Mar 6 with 2078 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:36 - Mar 6 by Championship |
You are comparing a real person to a character from a book. |
True, but..... there would be outrage if a black character from literature wa played by a white man. | |
| |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:45 - Mar 6 with 2074 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:36 - Mar 6 by Championship |
You are comparing a real person to a character from a book. |
A person who is clearly described.
Rami Malek just won an Oscar for an utterly breathtaking performance. Can you imagine if the world had said a bloke of Egyptian descent couldn't play Mercury and we ended up with the bloke from the Zanzibar version of Coronation Street, because he correctly represented the place where Mercury was born?
Think about this logically. If someone was to play John Lennon in a movie then would you choose a white man from Russia that looked just like him or a Liverpudlian, UK born and bred second generation African man? The latter would be from the exact same city as Lennon but would look less like him than someone from across the world.
There has to be some common sense in these things. It is acting. The art of pretending to be someone else. We are not asking George Clooney to black up, like people used to 50 years ago. | |
| |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:47 - Mar 6 with 2066 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:45 - Mar 6 by Marshalls_Mullet |
True, but..... there would be outrage if a black character from literature wa played by a white man. |
I've just lost my sh*t after someone told me Daniel Radcliffe isn't actually a real f*cking wizard. | |
| |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:51 - Mar 6 with 2062 views | lowhouseblue |
it's the never ending quest to rise up the hierarchy of oppression. just being black now only gets you up a couple of runs. it turns out that they're the oppressors of people who are blacker. it's now a never ending fight to establish the superior victimhood. |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
| |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:55 - Mar 6 with 2053 views | Swansea_Blue |
I think the issue here is that Will Smith is obviously a wrong un. He's got a history for deliberately misrepresenting characters of colour.
Here he is being blueist (or purplist, not sure which way round that should be described).
 | |
| |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:56 - Mar 6 with 2049 views | Lord_Lucan |
Can't he just "Black up" a bit? |  |
| |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 14:06 - Mar 6 with 2020 views | GlasgowBlue |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:39 - Mar 6 by Marshalls_Mullet |
I think if Beyonce looks 'lighter' that is purely down to Beyonce. Cant ever imagine her letting people doctor her image.
If you heard a sould singer and loved their voice, would you be disappointed if you then found out they were 'less black' than youd like them to be? |
No I wouldn't. Rod Stewart was initially played on black radio stations in America before they found out he is white.
I think you are missing the point. | |
| |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 14:08 - Mar 6 with 2015 views | Lord_Lucan |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 14:06 - Mar 6 by GlasgowBlue |
No I wouldn't. Rod Stewart was initially played on black radio stations in America before they found out he is white.
I think you are missing the point. |
Ditto Boy George | |
| |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 14:09 - Mar 6 with 2007 views | GeoffSentence |
He could always black up a little.
Note to self: read through threads before posting.
[Post edited 6 Mar 2019 14:16]
|  |
| |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 14:17 - Mar 6 with 1983 views | wkj |
It is all a bit silly really, although I am aware the issue of skin tone within black communities is a contentious topic, aren't most films aiming to suspend a degree of disbelief?
I can see certain cases where casting could be blasted, say if you cast Ted Nugent as Barack Obama*, though that is nothing like this issue at all
* Not an arbitrary link, Nugent said some fruity things towards Obama once |  |
| |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 14:20 - Mar 6 with 1972 views | StokieBlue |
| New Levels of Pedantry on 13:34 - Mar 6 by Championship |
Say what you like about the actual debate but it really surprises me that these film makers continue to score these own goals. They know Twitter is going to kick off if a gay actor doesn't play a gay character, trans actor doesn't play a trans character, dark skinned actor doesn't play a dark skinned character etc etc.
Is it deliberate for publicity? On this occasion I can see the issue. Present the story as accurately as possible. |
It's obvious to see their viewpoint and I can understand why some people might feel that way but it's still a long way from a white actor playing the role and I would have thought there were more important things to get angry about.
The converse is rightly cheered, Papaa Essiedu played Hamlet for the RSC last year.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
