| No deal? on 09:00 - Mar 13 with 4318 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
Can we have a 'Voted remain and agree the referendum result should be honoured, but not under a no deal or we've literally voted to destroy our own economy" |  |
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| No deal? on 09:01 - Mar 13 with 4307 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| No deal? on 09:00 - Mar 13 by Cheltenham_Blue |
Can we have a 'Voted remain and agree the referendum result should be honoured, but not under a no deal or we've literally voted to destroy our own economy" |
Isn't that the 4th one? |  |
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| No deal? on 09:10 - Mar 13 with 4287 views | Lord_Lucan |
Take away a no deal option and it’s like playing poker without your Queen, King and Ace.
I still don’t see what people don’t get about negotiations, EU never going to give anything until they absolutely have to - and they certainly weren’t going to do anything until the very end anyway. If you insist on bloody Brexit then you need to start off the negotiations by saying “Right, we are fecking off whatever happens and we can all do it the easy way or the hard way”. [Post edited 13 Mar 2019 9:12]
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| No deal? on 09:12 - Mar 13 with 4267 views | factual_blue |
You've forgotten the 'Let's Just Kill All Foreigners And Be Done With It' option. |  |
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| No deal? on 09:16 - Mar 13 with 4250 views | Withnail |
| No deal? on 09:12 - Mar 13 by factual_blue |
You've forgotten the 'Let's Just Kill All Foreigners And Be Done With It' option. |
Anyone who thinks no deal should be off the table, haven't negotiated anything in their lives. Bless them. |  | | |
| No deal? on 09:37 - Mar 13 with 4223 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| No deal? on 09:10 - Mar 13 by Lord_Lucan |
Take away a no deal option and it’s like playing poker without your Queen, King and Ace.
I still don’t see what people don’t get about negotiations, EU never going to give anything until they absolutely have to - and they certainly weren’t going to do anything until the very end anyway. If you insist on bloody Brexit then you need to start off the negotiations by saying “Right, we are fecking off whatever happens and we can all do it the easy way or the hard way”. [Post edited 13 Mar 2019 9:12]
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That is pretty much the point of the poll......it is good to see there is a green block!
Edit.....unfortunately we have a whole load of orange block mps [Post edited 13 Mar 2019 9:42]
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| No deal? on 09:40 - Mar 13 with 4216 views | Pinewoodblue |
| No deal? on 09:10 - Mar 13 by Lord_Lucan |
Take away a no deal option and it’s like playing poker without your Queen, King and Ace.
I still don’t see what people don’t get about negotiations, EU never going to give anything until they absolutely have to - and they certainly weren’t going to do anything until the very end anyway. If you insist on bloody Brexit then you need to start off the negotiations by saying “Right, we are fecking off whatever happens and we can all do it the easy way or the hard way”. [Post edited 13 Mar 2019 9:12]
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Nor do you agree what you are going to pay before you know what you are getting for your money.
Trouble is 400+ MPs voted to leave on 29th March deal or no deal, although to be fair many would probably now claim that they didn't know what leave meant.
We have a parliament that believes Theresa's deal is a bad deal, a Prime Minister who believes no deal is better than a bad deal, but her deal isn't a bad deal. Yet today a majority will vote to take no deal out of the equation. Tomorrow they will vote to extend article 50 but the EU are likely to demand conditions which the HoC will reject.
If you presented all his as a film script you would be laughed at because it was too far fetched, no government would let itself get into such a stupid position. [Post edited 13 Mar 2019 9:45]
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| No deal? on 09:55 - Mar 13 with 4180 views | eireblue |
| No deal? on 09:10 - Mar 13 by Lord_Lucan |
Take away a no deal option and it’s like playing poker without your Queen, King and Ace.
I still don’t see what people don’t get about negotiations, EU never going to give anything until they absolutely have to - and they certainly weren’t going to do anything until the very end anyway. If you insist on bloody Brexit then you need to start off the negotiations by saying “Right, we are fecking off whatever happens and we can all do it the easy way or the hard way”. [Post edited 13 Mar 2019 9:12]
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It isn't a negotiation.
The withdrawal agreement is game theory. And yes I have done negotiating in my job, and walked away.
Walking away has to be perceived as a loss to the other party at the point at which you walk away, for it to be any sort of leverage.
If the UK walks away from the EU with no deal, it is not optimal for the EU, but it is still a win, for the EU, politically.
Therefore it is not a credible threat.
If the threat is exercised, it shows to other members the strength of the EU. And if the UK is less successful a warning to other countries.
The whole tone of the us and them, play your cards close to your chest etc that was set by David Davis was stupid.
And the UK can't just "walk away" from the EU. The UK has a land border with the EU, and international agreements that need to be complied with.
After we leave the EU, then the negotiations about how we trade with the EU actually starts.
And that will be a negotiation.
Trade will be continuous, it doesn't stop, so it is not something that can be walked away from either.
You just have choices about how you decide to trade.
Of course whilst all of that is happening individual companies that are currently in the EU, with most of their trade in the EU, can decide which country in the EU that they want to be in. |  | | |
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| No deal? on 09:57 - Mar 13 with 4154 views | Withnail |
| No deal? on 09:55 - Mar 13 by eireblue |
It isn't a negotiation.
The withdrawal agreement is game theory. And yes I have done negotiating in my job, and walked away.
Walking away has to be perceived as a loss to the other party at the point at which you walk away, for it to be any sort of leverage.
If the UK walks away from the EU with no deal, it is not optimal for the EU, but it is still a win, for the EU, politically.
Therefore it is not a credible threat.
If the threat is exercised, it shows to other members the strength of the EU. And if the UK is less successful a warning to other countries.
The whole tone of the us and them, play your cards close to your chest etc that was set by David Davis was stupid.
And the UK can't just "walk away" from the EU. The UK has a land border with the EU, and international agreements that need to be complied with.
After we leave the EU, then the negotiations about how we trade with the EU actually starts.
And that will be a negotiation.
Trade will be continuous, it doesn't stop, so it is not something that can be walked away from either.
You just have choices about how you decide to trade.
Of course whilst all of that is happening individual companies that are currently in the EU, with most of their trade in the EU, can decide which country in the EU that they want to be in. |
Bless.
A no deal is win for the EU?
Okaaaaaay. | | | |
| No deal? on 10:02 - Mar 13 with 4134 views | factual_blue |
| No deal? on 09:40 - Mar 13 by Pinewoodblue |
Nor do you agree what you are going to pay before you know what you are getting for your money.
Trouble is 400+ MPs voted to leave on 29th March deal or no deal, although to be fair many would probably now claim that they didn't know what leave meant.
We have a parliament that believes Theresa's deal is a bad deal, a Prime Minister who believes no deal is better than a bad deal, but her deal isn't a bad deal. Yet today a majority will vote to take no deal out of the equation. Tomorrow they will vote to extend article 50 but the EU are likely to demand conditions which the HoC will reject.
If you presented all his as a film script you would be laughed at because it was too far fetched, no government would let itself get into such a stupid position. [Post edited 13 Mar 2019 9:45]
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And it's all because may has conflated the interests of the country with the interests of her party. | |
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| No deal? on 10:06 - Mar 13 with 4123 views | eireblue |
| No deal? on 09:57 - Mar 13 by Withnail |
Bless.
A no deal is win for the EU?
Okaaaaaay. |
Yes, a political win.
Not an economic one.
That is why it is not optimal.
If you don't understand why, then you would have been as effective as David Davis. | | | |
| No deal? on 10:10 - Mar 13 with 4105 views | Pinewoodblue |
| No deal? on 09:57 - Mar 13 by Withnail |
Bless.
A no deal is win for the EU?
Okaaaaaay. |
An international agreement, like any other agreement, is between two, of more, parties. Responsibilities are shared, uñfortunately Ireland wants to prove it is a good European, as long as it receives financial support. | |
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| No deal? on 10:20 - Mar 13 with 4096 views | BlueBadger |
| No deal? on 09:16 - Mar 13 by Withnail |
Anyone who thinks no deal should be off the table, haven't negotiated anything in their lives. Bless them. |
'You should give us what we want or we'll f*ck ourselves into the ground' isn't the genius negotiating point you think it is, really though, is it? |  |
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| No deal? on 10:21 - Mar 13 with 4091 views | Lord_Lucan |
| No deal? on 09:55 - Mar 13 by eireblue |
It isn't a negotiation.
The withdrawal agreement is game theory. And yes I have done negotiating in my job, and walked away.
Walking away has to be perceived as a loss to the other party at the point at which you walk away, for it to be any sort of leverage.
If the UK walks away from the EU with no deal, it is not optimal for the EU, but it is still a win, for the EU, politically.
Therefore it is not a credible threat.
If the threat is exercised, it shows to other members the strength of the EU. And if the UK is less successful a warning to other countries.
The whole tone of the us and them, play your cards close to your chest etc that was set by David Davis was stupid.
And the UK can't just "walk away" from the EU. The UK has a land border with the EU, and international agreements that need to be complied with.
After we leave the EU, then the negotiations about how we trade with the EU actually starts.
And that will be a negotiation.
Trade will be continuous, it doesn't stop, so it is not something that can be walked away from either.
You just have choices about how you decide to trade.
Of course whilst all of that is happening individual companies that are currently in the EU, with most of their trade in the EU, can decide which country in the EU that they want to be in. |
Pretty much disagree with a lot of what you said there to be honest and it is very much a negotiation, the problem is UK PLC is not negotiating very well. A no deal will be extremely damaging for the EU in my opinion. Very bad indeed.
The only thing that I would be nervous about would be the Irish situation - although all sides have said they won’t impose a hard border. Having said that I am no expert on the border issue, my NI friend though is pretty clued up and still sees it as an issue - mostly though a smuggling problem and the possibility of a scaled down return to the troubles - by a faction of hardliners who didn’t want peace in the first place and will use this as an excuse.
Might not be able to get back to any reply as my nice new car with executive TV won’t start and the AA should be here in a mo. | |
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| No deal? on 10:21 - Mar 13 with 4082 views | BlueBadger |
| No deal? on 09:10 - Mar 13 by Lord_Lucan |
Take away a no deal option and it’s like playing poker without your Queen, King and Ace.
I still don’t see what people don’t get about negotiations, EU never going to give anything until they absolutely have to - and they certainly weren’t going to do anything until the very end anyway. If you insist on bloody Brexit then you need to start off the negotiations by saying “Right, we are fecking off whatever happens and we can all do it the easy way or the hard way”. [Post edited 13 Mar 2019 9:12]
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No deal? by BlueBadger 13 Mar 2019 10:20'You should give us what we want or we'll f*ck ourselves into the ground' isn't the genius negotiating point you think it is, really though, is it?
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| No deal? on 10:24 - Mar 13 with 4080 views | Dyland |
| No deal? on 10:20 - Mar 13 by BlueBadger |
'You should give us what we want or we'll f*ck ourselves into the ground' isn't the genius negotiating point you think it is, really though, is it? |
WHAT DO WE WANT?
WE DON'T KNOW!
WHEN DO WE WANT IT?
NOW OR NEVER!
ffs innit |  |
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| No deal? on 10:25 - Mar 13 with 4069 views | Lord_Lucan |
| No deal? on 10:21 - Mar 13 by BlueBadger |
No deal? by BlueBadger 13 Mar 2019 10:20'You should give us what we want or we'll f*ck ourselves into the ground' isn't the genius negotiating point you think it is, really though, is it?
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Why have you bothered linking a post that is already sitting next to mine.
If I thought you had a point I would have replied to it anyway. | |
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| No deal? on 10:28 - Mar 13 with 4057 views | BlueBadger |
| No deal? on 10:24 - Mar 13 by Dyland |
WHAT DO WE WANT?
WE DON'T KNOW!
WHEN DO WE WANT IT?
NOW OR NEVER!
ffs innit |
It's the 'negotiating stance' of the stupid kid who thinks if he takes his ball and goes home, all the other kids' fun is ruined forever as well, when in reality what happens is that other kids find something else fun to do together or someone else goes home to get a ball, comes back and the game continues.
All whilst the original kid is sitting alone in his bedroom that stinks of lynx and stale semen playing congratulating himself on his 'win'. [Post edited 13 Mar 2019 13:42]
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| No deal? on 10:29 - Mar 13 with 4047 views | BlueBadger |
| No deal? on 10:25 - Mar 13 by Lord_Lucan |
Why have you bothered linking a post that is already sitting next to mine.
If I thought you had a point I would have replied to it anyway. |
Mainly because I'm genuinely struggling to see it as a credible piece of negotiation to threaten the other party with f*cking YOURSELF into the ground and was a bit taken aback to see you take it seriously. | |
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| No deal? on 10:33 - Mar 13 with 4043 views | BlueBadger |
| No deal? on 10:21 - Mar 13 by Lord_Lucan |
Pretty much disagree with a lot of what you said there to be honest and it is very much a negotiation, the problem is UK PLC is not negotiating very well. A no deal will be extremely damaging for the EU in my opinion. Very bad indeed.
The only thing that I would be nervous about would be the Irish situation - although all sides have said they won’t impose a hard border. Having said that I am no expert on the border issue, my NI friend though is pretty clued up and still sees it as an issue - mostly though a smuggling problem and the possibility of a scaled down return to the troubles - by a faction of hardliners who didn’t want peace in the first place and will use this as an excuse.
Might not be able to get back to any reply as my nice new car with executive TV won’t start and the AA should be here in a mo. |
No deal is undoubtedly damaging to the EU, but is likely to be disastrous for us.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/02/07/world/europe/brexit-impact-on-eur
It doesn't even make sense as a 'brinkman' negotiating point even, because we'd be harder hit and negotiating for trade deals, etc on a much, much weakened platform. [Post edited 13 Mar 2019 11:44]
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| No deal? on 10:34 - Mar 13 with 4044 views | eireblue |
| No deal? on 10:21 - Mar 13 by Lord_Lucan |
Pretty much disagree with a lot of what you said there to be honest and it is very much a negotiation, the problem is UK PLC is not negotiating very well. A no deal will be extremely damaging for the EU in my opinion. Very bad indeed.
The only thing that I would be nervous about would be the Irish situation - although all sides have said they won’t impose a hard border. Having said that I am no expert on the border issue, my NI friend though is pretty clued up and still sees it as an issue - mostly though a smuggling problem and the possibility of a scaled down return to the troubles - by a faction of hardliners who didn’t want peace in the first place and will use this as an excuse.
Might not be able to get back to any reply as my nice new car with executive TV won’t start and the AA should be here in a mo. |
It may well be a very bad thing in your opinion.
What you have to understand is the mindset of the people on the other side of the table.
Think of the crazy amount of money that the EU have spent during the Euro crisis, on ensuring Greece, Italy stayed in the Euro.
Doesn't really matter what you think about the EU.
It matters what people that are pro-EU and have been running the EU for 50 years think.
These are people that want the EU to succeed, and they have more countries joining.
Why give terms to the UK that another country could ask for, that is the process of joining?
This is simplistic but.
You do negotiations face to face with a supplier, you agree a really great deal.
A competitor will have to do that same negotiation, on their own, face to face, and get what they can.
What you don't do, as a supplier is negotiate in the open with all your customers at the same time, and tell everyone the best deal you gave to one company. Everyone would then simply start from that number.
This negotiation is in full public view.
The EU losing the UK is bad, but that happened as soon as the referendum result was in.
What would be worse is if the EU did not continue down the path they want with other countries.
That would be a very big political loss, if the EU plan gets derailed, by UK leaving.
So the EU are balancing more than the deal with the UK. They are also trying to preserve the future expansion of the EU. They may well be happy to take an economic hit to maintain a political outcome.
I didn't say that was optimal, I said exactly the opposite.
But it is an outcome that the EU will be perfectly okay with, especially if the UK is seen to choose no deal, when a perfectly good deal is available. | | | |
| No deal? on 10:57 - Mar 13 with 4001 views | hampstead_blue |
Are the results of this pole/referendum going to seen on C4/BBC/Newsnight later today? |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
| | Poll: | Best Blackpool goal |
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| No deal? on 11:03 - Mar 13 with 3977 views | tractordownsouth |
| No deal? on 09:10 - Mar 13 by Lord_Lucan |
Take away a no deal option and it’s like playing poker without your Queen, King and Ace.
I still don’t see what people don’t get about negotiations, EU never going to give anything until they absolutely have to - and they certainly weren’t going to do anything until the very end anyway. If you insist on bloody Brexit then you need to start off the negotiations by saying “Right, we are fecking off whatever happens and we can all do it the easy way or the hard way”. [Post edited 13 Mar 2019 9:12]
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It’s not though is it? No Deal would be difficult for Europe but it would be 10x worse for us. People use the ‘buying a house’ analogy but if we don’t get an FTA with Europe we haven’t got a house to go back to for now at least. |  |
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| No deal? on 11:05 - Mar 13 with 3971 views | eireblue |
| No deal? on 10:57 - Mar 13 by hampstead_blue |
Are the results of this pole/referendum going to seen on C4/BBC/Newsnight later today? |
No that's the MSM, they will only twist the results. | | | |
| No deal? on 11:24 - Mar 13 with 3926 views | ZedRodgers |
| No deal? on 09:16 - Mar 13 by Withnail |
Anyone who thinks no deal should be off the table, haven't negotiated anything in their lives. Bless them. |
A question for you Withnail:
How have we benefited by using no deal as negotiation tactic in the withdrawal agreement that was agreed by both parties? Which aspects of the deal were huge wins for the UK and grudging concessions from the EU as a result of our tactics? Or are you just saying that a worse deal for the UK would have been negotiated if we hadn't used it in that way?
Please let me know what we have gained with this approach, especially in comparison with the customs union and single market-friendly proposal put forward by the opposition which has been endorsed by the EU without 'no deal' being used as a negotiation tactic. |  |
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