| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum 18:00 - Mar 14 with 15901 views | pickles110564 |
As it was agreed in their party conference, i said at the time Corbyn would not allow it.
i was shouted down by several saying that Corbyn would back one, how come they have just rejected the vote to have one? |  | | |  |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 23:01 - Mar 14 with 2937 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 19:31 - Mar 14 by ZedRodgers |
Things should be even clearer for you since the official People’s Vote campaign have said pushing for a 2nd ref tonight was a waste of time.
You can’t have a 2nd referendum without deciding on what would fill the void next to remain on the ballot paper. It doesn’t make any sense. HoC need to decide on what leaving is first. The votes over the last 3 days have effectively mean there is no leave option at the moment. Campaigning for a 2nd ref which asks “do you want to stay in the EU or carry on trying to find a way of leaving?” is utter nonsense and would have even less support in the HoC than the people’s vote amendments/motions which have already failed.
Sleep on it and come back to me. |
Agree to an extent, but this looks farcical to an outsider
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| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 23:05 - Mar 14 with 2925 views | Ryorry |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 23:01 - Mar 14 by ElderGrizzly |
Agree to an extent, but this looks farcical to an outsider
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The whole of the UK must look like a gigantic mental hospital to the other 27 & those sitting in Brussels!! |  |
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| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 23:07 - Mar 14 with 2920 views | footers |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 23:01 - Mar 14 by ElderGrizzly |
Agree to an extent, but this looks farcical to an outsider
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It really doesn't when you understand the meaning of each vote in the House and what it means.
You vote on what is being brought to the table. That is the extension. Bringing anything else into it muddies the debate.In fact, the Speaker denied an amendment today for precisely that reason- its remit didn't fit the vote that was about to take place and was therefore not relevant.
The campaign for the People's Vote have said as much.
Who cares about 'outsiders'? Many wanted parliamentary sovereignty, now they're getting it. |  |
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| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 23:18 - Mar 14 with 2892 views | Ryorry |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 20:10 - Mar 14 by No9 |
Confirmed, you don't understand the parliamentary process
& it's begining to show that you have no idea what brexit means |
Think it's harsh to criticize anyone for not understanding when it's not only so complex but also situation changing so rapidly - sometimes by the hour, never mind the day. I'd say those who don't understand what's going on at any given moment are in a far greater majority than 52%, and even include some MPs - and myself!!  | |
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| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 23:19 - Mar 14 with 2887 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 23:05 - Mar 14 by Ryorry |
The whole of the UK must look like a gigantic mental hospital to the other 27 & those sitting in Brussels!! |
Especially when you realise that the chief whip abstained in the final vote and the Brexit minister, who ended the debate and urged MPs to vote for the motion , went into the lobby and voted against it. |  |
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| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 23:21 - Mar 14 with 2884 views | footers |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 23:18 - Mar 14 by Ryorry |
Think it's harsh to criticize anyone for not understanding when it's not only so complex but also situation changing so rapidly - sometimes by the hour, never mind the day. I'd say those who don't understand what's going on at any given moment are in a far greater majority than 52%, and even include some MPs - and myself!! |
Mentioned to a colleague earlier that, despite being a politics grad and having followed it for many years, there are many, many things of which I'm either being reminded or taught completely new! Brexit, if nothing else, should be a lesson for all in how our democracy works.
Might ask Father Christmas for a copy of Erskine May... | |
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| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 23:27 - Mar 14 with 2862 views | AbujaBlue |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 23:21 - Mar 14 by footers |
Mentioned to a colleague earlier that, despite being a politics grad and having followed it for many years, there are many, many things of which I'm either being reminded or taught completely new! Brexit, if nothing else, should be a lesson for all in how our democracy works.
Might ask Father Christmas for a copy of Erskine May... |
The sooner people realise that Corbyn, Milne and their Unite mates hate everything the EU stands for (and always have) the better. His non-show during the referendum debate should have been evidence enough.
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| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 23:34 - Mar 14 with 2845 views | footers |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 23:27 - Mar 14 by AbujaBlue |
The sooner people realise that Corbyn, Milne and their Unite mates hate everything the EU stands for (and always have) the better. His non-show during the referendum debate should have been evidence enough.
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Well, sausage, that's where you're wrong. The Labour Party does not elect a president; it works on mutually agreed policy from conference and its hundreds of thousands of members' input. Unlike the Tories.
Oh, the Tories- May the Remainer. Shurely she must be working with the EUSSR to scupper the deal?
Corbz is merely doing what his members tell him, much like May- only she doesn't have to.
So, what is your position? Are you anti-EU, pro-EU, or what- your post doesn't make clear? If you are pro, then may I suggest that Labour is your only option for remaining? If against, may I suggest that the alternative party has a Remainiac as its leader?
What say you.
P.S. Do not expect a reply tonight as I've just polished off my vino x | |
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| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 00:00 - Mar 15 with 2829 views | AbujaBlue |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 23:34 - Mar 14 by footers |
Well, sausage, that's where you're wrong. The Labour Party does not elect a president; it works on mutually agreed policy from conference and its hundreds of thousands of members' input. Unlike the Tories.
Oh, the Tories- May the Remainer. Shurely she must be working with the EUSSR to scupper the deal?
Corbz is merely doing what his members tell him, much like May- only she doesn't have to.
So, what is your position? Are you anti-EU, pro-EU, or what- your post doesn't make clear? If you are pro, then may I suggest that Labour is your only option for remaining? If against, may I suggest that the alternative party has a Remainiac as its leader?
What say you.
P.S. Do not expect a reply tonight as I've just polished off my vino x |
I am definitely the latter. But you are right, I gave Corbyn far too much credit in suggesting that he acts on his own accord, he has a number of influences. Wouldn't it be lovely to think that he faithfully does the bidding of his members though? A rosy thought but I am far more cynical.
The reality is he fully under the influence of his spin-doctor Seumas Milne who is as anti-EU as they get. Len McClusky and his beacon of democracy, Unite, had already warned Corbyn not to even entertain the thought of a second referendum.
So I must respectfully disagree with you that Labour is the only way for Remainers to turn and I just feel sorry for youngsters who put faith in the Labour Party believing it so. | | | |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 06:54 - Mar 15 with 2763 views | gordon |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 19:31 - Mar 14 by ZedRodgers |
Things should be even clearer for you since the official People’s Vote campaign have said pushing for a 2nd ref tonight was a waste of time.
You can’t have a 2nd referendum without deciding on what would fill the void next to remain on the ballot paper. It doesn’t make any sense. HoC need to decide on what leaving is first. The votes over the last 3 days have effectively mean there is no leave option at the moment. Campaigning for a 2nd ref which asks “do you want to stay in the EU or carry on trying to find a way of leaving?” is utter nonsense and would have even less support in the HoC than the people’s vote amendments/motions which have already failed.
Sleep on it and come back to me. |
Not sure this argument is defensible - why not a motion which says 'the terms on which we leave the European union, when agreed, should be put to public vote to confirm that this is the will of the people'.
Seems straightforward to me. There's a chance now that May's deal passes next week and that's that. |  | | |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 07:43 - Mar 15 with 2737 views | ZedRodgers |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 06:54 - Mar 15 by gordon |
Not sure this argument is defensible - why not a motion which says 'the terms on which we leave the European union, when agreed, should be put to public vote to confirm that this is the will of the people'.
Seems straightforward to me. There's a chance now that May's deal passes next week and that's that. |
It’s too open-ended.
If Labour’s amendment on for a People’s Vote on May’s deal failed in January then what you’re suggesting is even less likely to win over any other Tory votes, which is what’s required.
What makes you think May’s deal will overcome a loss of 150 votes next week, especially now that HoC has voted to request an extension? I feel that your “and that’s that” might be slightly premature. |  |
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| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 08:00 - Mar 15 with 2728 views | mrshallisfit |
I'd focus on your own bunch of clueless cretins, i.e. the party that had led us into the disaster that is Brexit and mismanaged it so badly subsequently. |  | | |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:07 - Mar 15 with 2695 views | pickles110564 |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 08:00 - Mar 15 by mrshallisfit |
I'd focus on your own bunch of clueless cretins, i.e. the party that had led us into the disaster that is Brexit and mismanaged it so badly subsequently. |
Just remind me how many MP's voted against us starting the A50 process? | | | |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:12 - Mar 15 with 2688 views | mrshallisfit |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:07 - Mar 15 by pickles110564 |
Just remind me how many MP's voted against us starting the A50 process? |
God what a poor argument. Not worth engaging if that is all you have got. | | | |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:17 - Mar 15 with 2676 views | Butterbing |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 07:43 - Mar 15 by ZedRodgers |
It’s too open-ended.
If Labour’s amendment on for a People’s Vote on May’s deal failed in January then what you’re suggesting is even less likely to win over any other Tory votes, which is what’s required.
What makes you think May’s deal will overcome a loss of 150 votes next week, especially now that HoC has voted to request an extension? I feel that your “and that’s that” might be slightly premature. |
I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the MPs who voted for May’s deal second time around may go back to voting against it now that there is an agreement by MPs to request an extension to article 50. Removing the threat of an imminent no deal may make May’s deal less appealing again for those that switched.
I also just cannot see how the DUP could ever vote for this deal given that they believe it goes against their fundamental reason for political existence. |  | | |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:33 - Mar 15 with 2660 views | pickles110564 |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:17 - Mar 15 by Butterbing |
I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the MPs who voted for May’s deal second time around may go back to voting against it now that there is an agreement by MPs to request an extension to article 50. Removing the threat of an imminent no deal may make May’s deal less appealing again for those that switched.
I also just cannot see how the DUP could ever vote for this deal given that they believe it goes against their fundamental reason for political existence. |
How quick can they change the law so we do not leave on the 29th March 2019?
If that does not change a vote to extend does not matter, we will still leave on the 29th. | | | |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:35 - Mar 15 with 2657 views | Herbivore |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:33 - Mar 15 by pickles110564 |
How quick can they change the law so we do not leave on the 29th March 2019?
If that does not change a vote to extend does not matter, we will still leave on the 29th. |
We won't leave on the 29th, it's not happening. |  |
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| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:36 - Mar 15 with 2655 views | Butterbing |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:33 - Mar 15 by pickles110564 |
How quick can they change the law so we do not leave on the 29th March 2019?
If that does not change a vote to extend does not matter, we will still leave on the 29th. |
It all depends on whether the EU agrees to extend article 50. It is probable that they will. However, if they don’t it is possible that we could either crash out without a deal or revoke article 50. | | | |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:41 - Mar 15 with 2637 views | pickles110564 |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:35 - Mar 15 by Herbivore |
We won't leave on the 29th, it's not happening. |
That was not my question, it is enshrined in LAW that we leave on the 29th March 2019.
My question was how quick can they get that law changed?
If they dont we will still leave on the 29th. | | | |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:42 - Mar 15 with 2636 views | WeWereZombies |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:36 - Mar 15 by Butterbing |
It all depends on whether the EU agrees to extend article 50. It is probable that they will. However, if they don’t it is possible that we could either crash out without a deal or revoke article 50. |
It would be just desserts if the ERG and DUP were the ultimate cause of the revocation of Article 50 but I cannot see that happening as a result of a third defeat for May's deal.
This all gives the EU quite a bargaining chip if there is anything they want before March 29th, doesn't it? |  |
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| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:42 - Mar 15 with 2633 views | pickles110564 |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:36 - Mar 15 by Butterbing |
It all depends on whether the EU agrees to extend article 50. It is probable that they will. However, if they don’t it is possible that we could either crash out without a deal or revoke article 50. |
How long would the process of revoking A50 take please? And what is that process? | | | |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:45 - Mar 15 with 2618 views | lowhouseblue |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:42 - Mar 15 by pickles110564 |
How long would the process of revoking A50 take please? And what is that process? |
I think you have to say revoke three times while turning round in front of a mirror? |  |
| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:51 - Mar 15 with 2604 views | Butterbing |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:42 - Mar 15 by pickles110564 |
How long would the process of revoking A50 take please? And what is that process? |
I'm not a political lawyer but as I understand it the house would just need to pass a motion to do this. Presumably, this is theoretically still possible. As I stated earlier it is probable that the EU will accept our request for an extension to Article 50 so revoking Article 50 is not actually being considered. It does raise an interesting question though. If the EU were to reject our request for an extension on the basis that there is no reason to extend (the best deal they will offer has been rejected) could we revoke Article 50 then go back to the drawing board and re-start the process with a better idea and a required outcome that has a chance of succeeding? [Post edited 15 Mar 2019 9:52]
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| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:59 - Mar 15 with 2590 views | ZedRodgers |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:36 - Mar 15 by Butterbing |
It all depends on whether the EU agrees to extend article 50. It is probable that they will. However, if they don’t it is possible that we could either crash out without a deal or revoke article 50. |
If the EU does happen to reject the extension, our MPs would likely choose revoking Article 50 over crashing out without a deal if presented with choice.
From the votes this week it's clear that only 250ish Tories + 10ish others maximum would support no deal. I genuinely believe that the parliament would choose the option to revoke if it arises when we're stood on the edge of the cliff and there is no other alternative.
I'm not saying it would be the end of Brexit or even that it would be a preferable outcome for remainers. It would be an extension of the mess. There would be nothing stopping us triggering Article 50 again after revoking it - Essentially it could be framed as an extension that we don't need the EU to approve, if they do now reject our request. I dare say Mr Barnier and his colleagues would be far from pleased though. | |
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| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 10:05 - Mar 15 with 2584 views | ZedRodgers |
| Really confused now - Zed said they would push for a 2nd Referendum on 09:42 - Mar 15 by pickles110564 |
How long would the process of revoking A50 take please? And what is that process? |
Article 50 can be revoked anytime up to 29th March.
A vote would be needed in parliament sometime between now and then. | |
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