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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... 13:26 - Mar 15 with 1807 viewsGavTWTD

To come up with one (or more) deal with the EU (such as Canada+++ or whatever), and decide on the deal we want?

If our politicians/parties can't be trusted to have a free vote, then there should be another referendum WITHOUT REMAIN AS AN OPTION. People say we shouldn't have another referendum, but shirley that depends on the question asked/votable answers? If it's purely "we've decided to leave, we now must choose how we leave".

The initial question was far too vague. The PM then had these red lines that she derived from the in/out question alone (no idea how she got them) and we're stuck in this impasse.

Apologies for another brexit thread.

Edit, sorry I mean without REMAIN as an option. Doh

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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:31 - Mar 15 with 923 viewsBluefish


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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:32 - Mar 15 with 922 viewsHerbivore

Do you mean without leave as an option or without remain as an option? A referendum with various leave options isn't acceptable, it's a vote purely for those who voted to leave. You disregard half the electorate if you do that. I can't see there being a second referendum but if there is it has to include the option of remaining in the EU imo.

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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:33 - Mar 15 with 920 viewsPinewoodblue

You need to have a choice to put to the public before you can call a referendum. The choice has to be accept this (whatever is negotiated) or leave. Votes need to be counted on a constituency basis with each MP mandated to accept the vote of their constituents.

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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:34 - Mar 15 with 917 viewsJohnWarksTash

Hmmm not sure I want a referendum which doesn't have a 'scrap it all' option.

Oh and don't call me Shirley......
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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:35 - Mar 15 with 908 viewsHerbivore

Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:33 - Mar 15 by Pinewoodblue

You need to have a choice to put to the public before you can call a referendum. The choice has to be accept this (whatever is negotiated) or leave. Votes need to be counted on a constituency basis with each MP mandated to accept the vote of their constituents.


Accept the deal or leave? Accepting the deal would be leaving?

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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:36 - Mar 15 with 904 viewsJ2BLUE

In a democracy it's not unreasonable to have remain on the ballot. It's been over 2.5 years and we now know a hell of a lot more.

If we decided to buy a house and then we learnt the neighbours like to have frequent large and loud parties, have 6 cars and a caravan which they park all over the road and like to keep old matresses and sofas in the front garden we would naturally reconsider.

It's odd that people will agonise over small decisions but they can't possible be asked to vote again on something as huge as Brexit because we voted out nearly 3 years ago.

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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:36 - Mar 15 with 904 viewsBluefish

Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:32 - Mar 15 by Herbivore

Do you mean without leave as an option or without remain as an option? A referendum with various leave options isn't acceptable, it's a vote purely for those who voted to leave. You disregard half the electorate if you do that. I can't see there being a second referendum but if there is it has to include the option of remaining in the EU imo.


The whole thing is mad. We asked the country if they want to paint a wall the country narrowly said yes, now when it comes to buying paint they all want different colours and are claiming the public have made their decision. The issue is we are taking every colour to parliament and saying do you want red? All of the green blue white black etc colour wall supporters are saying no. So do you want green? All the others say no etc. Etc.


There needs to be a defined vote, this can be 2 ways but has to be a referendum.

Option 1 is a 2 question referendum

Do you want to leave

Yes or no

If we leave do you want the deal on the table or no deal?


Option 2 is a 1 question vote


Do you want the deal on the table for no deal




People saying we have already had the vote is ridiculous. We can't paint the wall when we don't know what colour to paint it

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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:38 - Mar 15 with 887 viewsHerbivore

Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:36 - Mar 15 by J2BLUE

In a democracy it's not unreasonable to have remain on the ballot. It's been over 2.5 years and we now know a hell of a lot more.

If we decided to buy a house and then we learnt the neighbours like to have frequent large and loud parties, have 6 cars and a caravan which they park all over the road and like to keep old matresses and sofas in the front garden we would naturally reconsider.

It's odd that people will agonise over small decisions but they can't possible be asked to vote again on something as huge as Brexit because we voted out nearly 3 years ago.


And the government's argument against a second in/out referendum weakens each time May asks ministers to vote again on her deal. It's hard to argue that a second vote is a betrayal of democracy when you're repeatedly making people vote on a deal that's already been comprehensively rejected twice.

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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:40 - Mar 15 with 875 viewsHerbivore

Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:36 - Mar 15 by Bluefish

The whole thing is mad. We asked the country if they want to paint a wall the country narrowly said yes, now when it comes to buying paint they all want different colours and are claiming the public have made their decision. The issue is we are taking every colour to parliament and saying do you want red? All of the green blue white black etc colour wall supporters are saying no. So do you want green? All the others say no etc. Etc.


There needs to be a defined vote, this can be 2 ways but has to be a referendum.

Option 1 is a 2 question referendum

Do you want to leave

Yes or no

If we leave do you want the deal on the table or no deal?


Option 2 is a 1 question vote


Do you want the deal on the table for no deal




People saying we have already had the vote is ridiculous. We can't paint the wall when we don't know what colour to paint it


No government could offer no deal as a genuine option imo. It needs to be whatever deal is on the table versus remain. It won't happen though.

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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:42 - Mar 15 with 867 viewsLord_Lucan

I believe we were offered that and bizarrely turned it down

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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:42 - Mar 15 with 863 viewsBluefish

Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:40 - Mar 15 by Herbivore

No government could offer no deal as a genuine option imo. It needs to be whatever deal is on the table versus remain. It won't happen though.


There would be uproar though from the section of people that gav has told me not to talk about

Put it on because we need the public to know that 17. Something million people don't want a no deal Brexit

It would never win

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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:44 - Mar 15 with 859 viewsGavTWTD

Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:35 - Mar 15 by Herbivore

Accept the deal or leave? Accepting the deal would be leaving?


I erred. I didn't mean allowing remain as an option as the country already decided that, for better or worse.

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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:45 - Mar 15 with 844 viewsHerbivore

Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:42 - Mar 15 by Bluefish

There would be uproar though from the section of people that gav has told me not to talk about

Put it on because we need the public to know that 17. Something million people don't want a no deal Brexit

It would never win


They never thought leave would win. It would be reckless to offer no deal as an option when the government knows how ruinous it would be. If people start crying that they can't have a no deal Brexit then just point and laugh at them.

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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:46 - Mar 15 with 838 viewsDarth_Koont

Brexit has proven way beyond our current political system and level of debate, let alone the decision-making capacity of the electorate.

Those shortcomings need addressing first – and not just for Brexit. So park it indefinitely and then revisit in a few years' time, if at all.

Forcing a bad decision through makes the UK democracy a damaging burden rather than a positive freedom.
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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:48 - Mar 15 with 821 viewsHerbivore

Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:44 - Mar 15 by GavTWTD

I erred. I didn't mean allowing remain as an option as the country already decided that, for better or worse.


Although had soft Brexit, hard Brexit and remain been options first time around then remain would have won handily. So you're holding a vote on options that not many want and whose numbers are dwarfed by those wanting to remain. It was a wafer thin decision at a snapshot in time based on poor quality info and some outright lies, not to mention electoral fraud. We can't keep holding the decision up as entirely untouchable, it's leading us to ruin.

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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:49 - Mar 15 with 813 viewsBluefish

Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:45 - Mar 15 by Herbivore

They never thought leave would win. It would be reckless to offer no deal as an option when the government knows how ruinous it would be. If people start crying that they can't have a no deal Brexit then just point and laugh at them.


This is different circumstances though they have a better view and every remain voter would vote for the deal

If you are going to remove no deal then you are going to upset a large chunk of people so it that case you might as well just cancel it all anyway, it would upset the same people in the same way

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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:50 - Mar 15 with 814 viewsSwansea_Blue

I'm going for TWTD++++.

Free cheese and Adnams to anyone who's nice to a foreigner.

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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:55 - Mar 15 with 799 viewsdryas

No. What needs to happen is that politicians and the media are honest with the electorate. There is no point having Canada+++ or Norway or Common Market 2.0. Either stay in the EU and have all the benefits and be part of the decision making process or leave and find our own way in the world. Remaining HAS to stay as an option in a referendum.

Brave politicians would actually be saying something like: you know what, a decision of this magnitude should never have been made in a referendum or, if it was going to be should have been using a super majority. We have tried to put into action a response to the ADVISORY referendum but it's clear it isn't in your best interests and agreement cannot be reached. Therefore we advise the people we remain in the EU.
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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:59 - Mar 15 with 791 viewsPinewoodblue

Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:35 - Mar 15 by Herbivore

Accept the deal or leave? Accepting the deal would be leaving?


Should have said " or just leave". Labour and Conservative parties have already made it clear they intended to honour the first referendum.

I might add I voted remain.

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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 14:01 - Mar 15 with 785 viewsSwansea_Blue

And being more serious, I'd put it on pause while an investigation into the slimey barstewards who are promoting and funding Brexit is carried out. If wrongdoing is found in the referendum and/or since, call it all off and the Brexiteers can have another go legally later on. If no wrongdoing is found with the referendum, then sure we have to find a way to leave.

I've lost patience with the Brexiteers in Parliament (not that I ever had any) since they voted against May's Withdrawal Agreement, which would have sent us down the road towards a Brexit similar to that which they campaigned for in the referendum (i.e. a future close relationship with "access" to the single market and some form of customs alignment. May's "single customs territory" would give them that, shirley?). It's been noted by many commentators far more clued up than me that the ERG types only seem happier to be the rebels than to actually reach a consensus.

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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 14:02 - Mar 15 with 774 viewsHerbivore

Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:59 - Mar 15 by Pinewoodblue

Should have said " or just leave". Labour and Conservative parties have already made it clear they intended to honour the first referendum.

I might add I voted remain.


You can't have no deal as an option and you can't have a second referendum without remain. This is why I very much doubt there will be a referendum.

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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 14:02 - Mar 15 with 770 viewsDarth_Koont

Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:55 - Mar 15 by dryas

No. What needs to happen is that politicians and the media are honest with the electorate. There is no point having Canada+++ or Norway or Common Market 2.0. Either stay in the EU and have all the benefits and be part of the decision making process or leave and find our own way in the world. Remaining HAS to stay as an option in a referendum.

Brave politicians would actually be saying something like: you know what, a decision of this magnitude should never have been made in a referendum or, if it was going to be should have been using a super majority. We have tried to put into action a response to the ADVISORY referendum but it's clear it isn't in your best interests and agreement cannot be reached. Therefore we advise the people we remain in the EU.


Agreed. It shows the limitations of our political system when it not only can't deal with reality but it can't even talk about it.

Reality, and the only real choice available, is staring everyone in the face.
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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 14:02 - Mar 15 with 771 viewspickles110564

Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:35 - Mar 15 by Herbivore

Accept the deal or leave? Accepting the deal would be leaving?


I think it should read without remain as an option.
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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 14:03 - Mar 15 with 759 viewsHerbivore

Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 13:49 - Mar 15 by Bluefish

This is different circumstances though they have a better view and every remain voter would vote for the deal

If you are going to remove no deal then you are going to upset a large chunk of people so it that case you might as well just cancel it all anyway, it would upset the same people in the same way


Doesn't matter if it pisses them off, it's not a viable option and so cannot be offered as one. Which is why I don't think we'll see another referendum.

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Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 14:05 - Mar 15 with 752 viewsHerbivore

Isn't the solution to the brexit problem... on 14:02 - Mar 15 by pickles110564

I think it should read without remain as an option.


Yeah, that won't fly.

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