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No MV3 15:39 - Mar 18 with 27887 viewsZedRodgers

Bercow says no.

He's making a statement now in his typical long-winded fashion. Government benches didn't seem to know he was going to do this and are in disbelief.

Remarkable stuff.

EDIT: Essentially he's said he won't allow them to bring back the same deal back for another vote. Something would need to change.

Meaningful Edit 2: Bercow clarifies to JRM that it could be brought back in a new parliamentary session. Make of that what you will.
[Post edited 18 Mar 2019 15:52]

No, not at the moment

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No MV3 on 16:34 - Mar 19 with 3235 viewsJ2BLUE

No MV3 on 16:27 - Mar 19 by ZedRodgers

That's fair enough and thanks for responding pragmatically, as always.

It sounds to me like Mr. Barnier agrees with us here and is trying to suggest a short term extension to bring her deal back wouldn't be favourable with them.



This morning's cabinet meeting was debating whether they should seek a short or long term extension by all accounts. Leadsom, Grayling, Fox and other illustrious names reported to have threatened resigning if an extension is requested and we don't leave with 'no deal'. Maniacs.

It really is anybody's guess what she'll do next. She is certainly limited in her options. Calling a GE to strengthen her HoC numbers wouldn't even be the most delusional one for her to choose and she has form for that kind of self-confidence.

Looks like the DUP are refusing to back the deal until she can get more numbers behind it from within her own party, so that looks to be dead in the water (for now at least):

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/exclusive-dup-will-not-back-mays-brexit-d

All adding up to a longer extension and something radical to break the deadlock.


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No MV3 on 16:54 - Mar 19 with 3201 viewsStokieBlue

No MV3 on 16:27 - Mar 19 by ZedRodgers

That's fair enough and thanks for responding pragmatically, as always.

It sounds to me like Mr. Barnier agrees with us here and is trying to suggest a short term extension to bring her deal back wouldn't be favourable with them.



This morning's cabinet meeting was debating whether they should seek a short or long term extension by all accounts. Leadsom, Grayling, Fox and other illustrious names reported to have threatened resigning if an extension is requested and we don't leave with 'no deal'. Maniacs.

It really is anybody's guess what she'll do next. She is certainly limited in her options. Calling a GE to strengthen her HoC numbers wouldn't even be the most delusional one for her to choose and she has form for that kind of self-confidence.

Looks like the DUP are refusing to back the deal until she can get more numbers behind it from within her own party, so that looks to be dead in the water (for now at least):

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/exclusive-dup-will-not-back-mays-brexit-d

All adding up to a longer extension and something radical to break the deadlock.


Afternoon Zed.

Would calling a GE be that delusional? Sure she’s rubbish but Labour aren’t exactly the glint in everyone’s eye at the moment either. It’s conceivable she might actually get a majority.

I would think the best thing would be a long extension allowing a proper GE to be held whereby the actual Brexit positions will be put on the manifestos (which should be interesting) and then the people can decide in what is essentially a GE/Peoples vote combined.

SB

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No MV3 on 17:40 - Mar 19 with 3172 viewsGuthrum

No MV3 on 16:54 - Mar 19 by StokieBlue

Afternoon Zed.

Would calling a GE be that delusional? Sure she’s rubbish but Labour aren’t exactly the glint in everyone’s eye at the moment either. It’s conceivable she might actually get a majority.

I would think the best thing would be a long extension allowing a proper GE to be held whereby the actual Brexit positions will be put on the manifestos (which should be interesting) and then the people can decide in what is essentially a GE/Peoples vote combined.

SB


The problem with a GE is that it muddies the Brexit options with economic and social policies, which will skew people's voting. If anything, we need a series of Brexit "manifestoes" published and debated (need not be along party lines), then a referendum with those options on the ballot.

Obviously that raises the issue of whether they would be acceptable to the EU, but Barnier/Tusk could make indicative comments as guidance.

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No MV3 on 17:49 - Mar 19 with 3158 viewsvapour_trail

No MV3 on 16:54 - Mar 19 by StokieBlue

Afternoon Zed.

Would calling a GE be that delusional? Sure she’s rubbish but Labour aren’t exactly the glint in everyone’s eye at the moment either. It’s conceivable she might actually get a majority.

I would think the best thing would be a long extension allowing a proper GE to be held whereby the actual Brexit positions will be put on the manifestos (which should be interesting) and then the people can decide in what is essentially a GE/Peoples vote combined.

SB


Whilst Corbin feels about as electable as he did two years ago, can you imagine a Tory campaign now? Surely it would only descend into open warfare. Could be fun to watch.

I don’t think it’ll be necessary. The DUP will blink next week. The ERG will blink next week. They’ll do what they’ve predicted the EU will do all the way through, the massive sh1thouses.

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No MV3 on 18:18 - Mar 19 with 3139 viewseireblue

No MV3 on 17:40 - Mar 19 by Guthrum

The problem with a GE is that it muddies the Brexit options with economic and social policies, which will skew people's voting. If anything, we need a series of Brexit "manifestoes" published and debated (need not be along party lines), then a referendum with those options on the ballot.

Obviously that raises the issue of whether they would be acceptable to the EU, but Barnier/Tusk could make indicative comments as guidance.


It May did win another GE, with a very specific manifesto commitment, then does that not allow for greater authority to push through legislation with respect to parliamentary processes?
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No MV3 on 18:21 - Mar 19 with 3131 viewsfooters

No MV3 on 17:40 - Mar 19 by Guthrum

The problem with a GE is that it muddies the Brexit options with economic and social policies, which will skew people's voting. If anything, we need a series of Brexit "manifestoes" published and debated (need not be along party lines), then a referendum with those options on the ballot.

Obviously that raises the issue of whether they would be acceptable to the EU, but Barnier/Tusk could make indicative comments as guidance.


"economic and social policies" - eh? What on earth are those? Thought they'd died out, like flares or tape players.

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No MV3 on 18:32 - Mar 19 with 3115 viewseireblue

No MV3 on 10:20 - Mar 19 by pickles110564

Maybe she is honourable unlike Corbyn and wants to deliver what she stood on at the last election?


Pickles, it is time to take a deep breath, let it out, and then acknowledge this government is incompetent.

There is no way to really argue against that.

They are quite good at spinning though.

People are allowed to hold, talk about, and act the on their opinions, which may differ from others.

I fear that May, Farage and Fox types will cover there incompetence by pointing and accusing people of rather unsavoury stuff, and make accusations of betrayal, when all they are doing is following the rule of law and exercising democratic rights.

You have been let down.

As has the whole country, whatever side of the debate.
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No MV3 on 19:07 - Mar 19 with 3091 viewsStokieBlue

No MV3 on 17:40 - Mar 19 by Guthrum

The problem with a GE is that it muddies the Brexit options with economic and social policies, which will skew people's voting. If anything, we need a series of Brexit "manifestoes" published and debated (need not be along party lines), then a referendum with those options on the ballot.

Obviously that raises the issue of whether they would be acceptable to the EU, but Barnier/Tusk could make indicative comments as guidance.


Not sure I agree.

There is no appetite in many quarters for another referendum, dressing one up as a general election gets past that. Given brexit is clearly the most important issue I don't think the other issues would be at the forefront and any party that decided to make them so wouldn't win.

I'm surprised you are still thinking any guidance would come from the EU.

I'm actually surprised by your whole stance on this given your postings over the years.

SB

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No MV3 on 19:12 - Mar 19 with 3079 viewsfooters

No MV3 on 19:07 - Mar 19 by StokieBlue

Not sure I agree.

There is no appetite in many quarters for another referendum, dressing one up as a general election gets past that. Given brexit is clearly the most important issue I don't think the other issues would be at the forefront and any party that decided to make them so wouldn't win.

I'm surprised you are still thinking any guidance would come from the EU.

I'm actually surprised by your whole stance on this given your postings over the years.

SB


I'd add that from what the EU have come out with today that pretty much any agreement to an extension of any kind would have to be based on some sort of material event (ie a GE or ref) that it may force her into doing so.

That or leave without a deal.

Not sure what else May could cite as a substantial change in circumstances that would appease them if not those two options. But, in short, who fecking knows!

She seems to be wanting others to make decisions on her behalf now, whether that be the Cabinet or the EU. She's completely lost without her deal.

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No MV3 on 19:13 - Mar 19 with 3074 viewsSpruceMoose

No MV3 on 19:12 - Mar 19 by footers

I'd add that from what the EU have come out with today that pretty much any agreement to an extension of any kind would have to be based on some sort of material event (ie a GE or ref) that it may force her into doing so.

That or leave without a deal.

Not sure what else May could cite as a substantial change in circumstances that would appease them if not those two options. But, in short, who fecking knows!

She seems to be wanting others to make decisions on her behalf now, whether that be the Cabinet or the EU. She's completely lost without her deal.


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No MV3 on 19:15 - Mar 19 with 3071 viewsfooters

No MV3 on 19:13 - Mar 19 by SpruceMoose

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Poor old thing needs to be taken to the political knacker's yard after a few *very* strong G&Ts!

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No MV3 on 19:15 - Mar 19 with 3070 viewsBloomBlue

No MV3 on 19:07 - Mar 19 by StokieBlue

Not sure I agree.

There is no appetite in many quarters for another referendum, dressing one up as a general election gets past that. Given brexit is clearly the most important issue I don't think the other issues would be at the forefront and any party that decided to make them so wouldn't win.

I'm surprised you are still thinking any guidance would come from the EU.

I'm actually surprised by your whole stance on this given your postings over the years.

SB


So lets say a party said they would reverse Brexit but privatise large parts of the NHS, would the reverse of Brexit or the NHS be more important in terms of your vote in that GE?

In a GE I still think Brexit isn't going to be the main topic for the vast majority of people.
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No MV3 on 19:17 - Mar 19 with 3069 viewsfooters

No MV3 on 19:15 - Mar 19 by BloomBlue

So lets say a party said they would reverse Brexit but privatise large parts of the NHS, would the reverse of Brexit or the NHS be more important in terms of your vote in that GE?

In a GE I still think Brexit isn't going to be the main topic for the vast majority of people.


Your first hypothetical is a bit silly as a political venn diagram of interests would largely separate the two groups.

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No MV3 on 19:23 - Mar 19 with 3061 viewsBloomBlue

No MV3 on 19:17 - Mar 19 by footers

Your first hypothetical is a bit silly as a political venn diagram of interests would largely separate the two groups.


But the point is more around in a GE what would be more important and I don't think in a GE people will put Brexit as their No1 topic.
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No MV3 on 19:24 - Mar 19 with 3059 viewsfooters

No MV3 on 19:23 - Mar 19 by BloomBlue

But the point is more around in a GE what would be more important and I don't think in a GE people will put Brexit as their No1 topic.


Why? It's the most important political and economic decision we've faced as a country probably since the initial vote to join. And maybe not even that.

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No MV3 on 19:31 - Mar 19 with 3049 viewsBloomBlue

No MV3 on 19:24 - Mar 19 by footers

Why? It's the most important political and economic decision we've faced as a country probably since the initial vote to join. And maybe not even that.


But I think when it comes to it, people won't base their vote on Brexit only. There will be other things parties are going to include and some of those I feel will become people's no1. Yes things have changed since the last GE but how many remainers voted for the Lib's when the Libs main policy was to reverse Brexit.
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No MV3 on 20:01 - Mar 19 with 3015 viewsZedRodgers

No MV3 on 16:54 - Mar 19 by StokieBlue

Afternoon Zed.

Would calling a GE be that delusional? Sure she’s rubbish but Labour aren’t exactly the glint in everyone’s eye at the moment either. It’s conceivable she might actually get a majority.

I would think the best thing would be a long extension allowing a proper GE to be held whereby the actual Brexit positions will be put on the manifestos (which should be interesting) and then the people can decide in what is essentially a GE/Peoples vote combined.

SB


The delusion wouldn't necessarily be the decision to call a snap election and try and win a majority to break the impasse - There is some logic there.

The delusion comes into it when she walks into it with policies about supporting fox hunting and general misery-mongering, thinking it would win people over.

She would likely stick with her deal as it is and just assume she will come away with a majority because the electorate is sympathetic to her situation and just want her deal to go through.

No, not at the moment

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No MV3 on 20:04 - Mar 19 with 3008 viewsfooters

No MV3 on 20:01 - Mar 19 by ZedRodgers

The delusion wouldn't necessarily be the decision to call a snap election and try and win a majority to break the impasse - There is some logic there.

The delusion comes into it when she walks into it with policies about supporting fox hunting and general misery-mongering, thinking it would win people over.

She would likely stick with her deal as it is and just assume she will come away with a majority because the electorate is sympathetic to her situation and just want her deal to go through.


Not that it's indicative of much, but a thread by a Labour MP yesterday (I think, maybe this morning) showed his inbox of constituents' demands on Brexit. He remarked that his 'Support May's deal' email was in the vast minority.

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No MV3 on 20:29 - Mar 19 with 2981 viewsZedRodgers

No MV3 on 20:04 - Mar 19 by footers

Not that it's indicative of much, but a thread by a Labour MP yesterday (I think, maybe this morning) showed his inbox of constituents' demands on Brexit. He remarked that his 'Support May's deal' email was in the vast minority.


I saw. He’s a good egg that Andrew Gwynne.

I linked to it in one of the current Brexit threads to try and explain to Pickles that he’s not the only type of leave voter and that there aren’t 17m likeminded people all being denied a voice.

I don’t think it worked unfortunately.

No, not at the moment

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No MV3 on 20:36 - Mar 19 with 2971 viewsfooters

No MV3 on 20:29 - Mar 19 by ZedRodgers

I saw. He’s a good egg that Andrew Gwynne.

I linked to it in one of the current Brexit threads to try and explain to Pickles that he’s not the only type of leave voter and that there aren’t 17m likeminded people all being denied a voice.

I don’t think it worked unfortunately.


How are things at the compound, Zed? Magda keeping your coffee cup full? Must say there have been some payroll issues of late but thankfully that awful graffiti in the gents seems to have gone. Was spending far too much time in there, just looking 'at it' as it were...

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No MV3 on 20:47 - Mar 19 with 2958 viewsGuthrum

No MV3 on 19:07 - Mar 19 by StokieBlue

Not sure I agree.

There is no appetite in many quarters for another referendum, dressing one up as a general election gets past that. Given brexit is clearly the most important issue I don't think the other issues would be at the forefront and any party that decided to make them so wouldn't win.

I'm surprised you are still thinking any guidance would come from the EU.

I'm actually surprised by your whole stance on this given your postings over the years.

SB


Problem is, other issues are significant, as a GE is to decide who runs the country for (theoretically) the next five years. Not just the short to medium term of Brexit.

The EU is constantly giving guidance and hints on what it is or is not likely to find acceptable. It's just that not very many people are listening.

What is it about my stance which surprises you?

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No MV3 on 20:47 - Mar 19 with 2955 viewsTexaco73

A long extension is the only sensible solution in my opinion.

I don't think anyone want to extend this debacle any longer, but Teresa May has succeeded in uniting both leave and remain in agreement; that her deal, is a bad deal for the UK.

A short extension will not give enough time to resolve our domestic turmoil.
I suppose at least now the festering sore of our antiquated party political system has now been exposed fully and perhaps it takes a national crisis to make things happen.

Democracy is after all, a myth, and this parliament is doing an astonishingly good job of showing it to the nation.
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No MV3 on 21:12 - Mar 19 with 2933 viewsgordon

No MV3 on 16:54 - Mar 19 by StokieBlue

Afternoon Zed.

Would calling a GE be that delusional? Sure she’s rubbish but Labour aren’t exactly the glint in everyone’s eye at the moment either. It’s conceivable she might actually get a majority.

I would think the best thing would be a long extension allowing a proper GE to be held whereby the actual Brexit positions will be put on the manifestos (which should be interesting) and then the people can decide in what is essentially a GE/Peoples vote combined.

SB


A general election for the tories would be brilliant for everyone, because they'd have to try and collectively agree on a Brexit position in their manifesto.

Having a second referendum on an agreed deal is the only vaguely democratic solution to this enormous f*** up now. Anyone who says that would be a failure of democracy or whatever is wrong. It was the first referendum when our democracy failed entirely, in having a referendum where no-one had the even a vague idea of what implementing one of the options would actually entail.
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No MV3 on 21:17 - Mar 19 with 2929 viewsZedRodgers

No MV3 on 20:36 - Mar 19 by footers

How are things at the compound, Zed? Magda keeping your coffee cup full? Must say there have been some payroll issues of late but thankfully that awful graffiti in the gents seems to have gone. Was spending far too much time in there, just looking 'at it' as it were...


All okay at my end.

They've let Magda go. Were you not copied into the email?

Apparently, she told Владимир at the photocopier that she had a dream we annexed The Hague and used it as a giant prison for the entire McCluskey family and their pets. The next day she was packing her mini cacti and framed photo of Roger Federer and was out the door.

I told her to speak to the union.

No, not at the moment

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(No subject) (n/t) on 06:16 - Mar 29 with 2785 viewsWeekender

No MV3 on 16:30 - Mar 18 by BanksterDebtSlave

Patterson was on about leaving on 29th under GATT rule 24 (?) ....0 tarriffs between us and Europe for up to 10 years while the final trade deal is negotiated and Irish issue goes away too......but we will have left.



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