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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 21:25 - Mar 20 by StNeotsBlue
Regarding your last sentence, this should be the case resoundingly across the country. The fact it isn't is down to the ineptitude of the opposition, hence the anger and disappointment from left leaning posters on this thread which is replicated nationwide.
I've waited all my voting life for anything close to an opportunity to vote in something close to a socialist party. Always voted Labour despite them not being that, but still being better than the Tories. Corbyn may be unpopular but his project (or at least large aspects of it) appeal to me.
Now, that probably puts a lot of centrists off.
This is a case for PR and feeling represented. Unfortunately, we held a PR vote which will likely be the last for a generation (as was promised). Voter disenfranchisement isn't just about the centrists - who we never tire of hearing about - but about everyone.
Labour will return to the centre, there'll never be any large-scale investment in the country, we'll have all the same old problems and then we're back to the good old Blair/Cameron years, when there was a decent economic tailwind and no one can be unhappy. Until they are again.
We've moved so far to the right that all this is now acceptable. If the majority don't agree with this, and they find that austerity has been helpful to them, then there's not much more we can do. Aside from to wait for it all to happen again, of course.
footers QC - Prosecution Barrister, Hasketon Law Chambers
Corbyn you cretin.nm on 21:27 - Mar 20 by BloomBlue
Rubbish, Chuka had every right to be there. Corbyn acted like a child.
You are a chaos-seeking loon with disdain for pragmatism.
Any sane person would come to the conclusion after watching her speech that there was no reason for anybody to be there. She is a brick wall.
If there was any purpose for anyone being there for any reason other than being briefed that nothing has changed, then Chuka Umunna would have been invited solely for May to see if she could get the 75+ conversions she needs without Labour.
You don’t support May’s deal and you certainly aren’t interested in Chuka’s view, which makes your motive here glaringly obvious.
No, not at the moment
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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 21:45 - Mar 20 with 3188 views
Corbyn you cretin.nm on 21:43 - Mar 20 by ZedRodgers
You are a chaos-seeking loon with disdain for pragmatism.
Any sane person would come to the conclusion after watching her speech that there was no reason for anybody to be there. She is a brick wall.
If there was any purpose for anyone being there for any reason other than being briefed that nothing has changed, then Chuka Umunna would have been invited solely for May to see if she could get the 75+ conversions she needs without Labour.
You don’t support May’s deal and you certainly aren’t interested in Chuka’s view, which makes your motive here glaringly obvious.
I've waited all my voting life for anything close to an opportunity to vote in something close to a socialist party. Always voted Labour despite them not being that, but still being better than the Tories. Corbyn may be unpopular but his project (or at least large aspects of it) appeal to me.
Now, that probably puts a lot of centrists off.
This is a case for PR and feeling represented. Unfortunately, we held a PR vote which will likely be the last for a generation (as was promised). Voter disenfranchisement isn't just about the centrists - who we never tire of hearing about - but about everyone.
Labour will return to the centre, there'll never be any large-scale investment in the country, we'll have all the same old problems and then we're back to the good old Blair/Cameron years, when there was a decent economic tailwind and no one can be unhappy. Until they are again.
We've moved so far to the right that all this is now acceptable. If the majority don't agree with this, and they find that austerity has been helpful to them, then there's not much more we can do. Aside from to wait for it all to happen again, of course.
I agree with most of your sentiments there which is why I'm angry and disappointed with Corbyn's poor leadership. He has been given a golden opportunity against a hugely divided and often inept Tory party and has made no progress. He has been at best disingenuous about his own position regarding the EU.
3
Corbyn you cretin.nm on 21:55 - Mar 20 with 3155 views
Corbyn you cretin.nm on 21:43 - Mar 20 by ZedRodgers
You are a chaos-seeking loon with disdain for pragmatism.
Any sane person would come to the conclusion after watching her speech that there was no reason for anybody to be there. She is a brick wall.
If there was any purpose for anyone being there for any reason other than being briefed that nothing has changed, then Chuka Umunna would have been invited solely for May to see if she could get the 75+ conversions she needs without Labour.
You don’t support May’s deal and you certainly aren’t interested in Chuka’s view, which makes your motive here glaringly obvious.
Corbyn is a bellend and the sooner Labour get Yvette Cooper in as leader the better
0
Corbyn you cretin.nm on 21:57 - Mar 20 with 3158 views
Corbyn you cretin.nm on 21:49 - Mar 20 by StNeotsBlue
I agree with most of your sentiments there which is why I'm angry and disappointed with Corbyn's poor leadership. He has been given a golden opportunity against a hugely divided and often inept Tory party and has made no progress. He has been at best disingenuous about his own position regarding the EU.
Completely agree. What would I give to be in his position? Everything. This country strongly needs a rebalancing of power, but sadly Brexit will make that an impossibility; equality will only get worse and our society more divisive.
I am angry with him on so many levels but don't want to add to the reams of negativity that abound about Labour atm. It's so frustrating. This was a golden opportunity which has now seemingly been wasted. Yet I don't trust any of the principles he set out will be continued by another potential leader.
This was the chance, and now it's disappearing. It's so tempting to simply say BCWYWF and feck off to France or elsewhere. My life won't change due to any of this, but seeing such inequality in society riles me up. Then again, I've always thought being disappointed was an inherent British trait so maybe I'll stay put for the punishment and gallows humour.
Though the temptation of Gauloises humour of Parisian cafes severely tempts as an alternative,
footers QC - Prosecution Barrister, Hasketon Law Chambers
You don't need to worry. Gene pools aren't easily altered.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Completely agree. What would I give to be in his position? Everything. This country strongly needs a rebalancing of power, but sadly Brexit will make that an impossibility; equality will only get worse and our society more divisive.
I am angry with him on so many levels but don't want to add to the reams of negativity that abound about Labour atm. It's so frustrating. This was a golden opportunity which has now seemingly been wasted. Yet I don't trust any of the principles he set out will be continued by another potential leader.
This was the chance, and now it's disappearing. It's so tempting to simply say BCWYWF and feck off to France or elsewhere. My life won't change due to any of this, but seeing such inequality in society riles me up. Then again, I've always thought being disappointed was an inherent British trait so maybe I'll stay put for the punishment and gallows humour.
Though the temptation of Gauloises humour of Parisian cafes severely tempts as an alternative,
Don't feel too disillusioned....at least you're not me!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Completely agree. What would I give to be in his position? Everything. This country strongly needs a rebalancing of power, but sadly Brexit will make that an impossibility; equality will only get worse and our society more divisive.
I am angry with him on so many levels but don't want to add to the reams of negativity that abound about Labour atm. It's so frustrating. This was a golden opportunity which has now seemingly been wasted. Yet I don't trust any of the principles he set out will be continued by another potential leader.
This was the chance, and now it's disappearing. It's so tempting to simply say BCWYWF and feck off to France or elsewhere. My life won't change due to any of this, but seeing such inequality in society riles me up. Then again, I've always thought being disappointed was an inherent British trait so maybe I'll stay put for the punishment and gallows humour.
Though the temptation of Gauloises humour of Parisian cafes severely tempts as an alternative,
People who don’t want the ticket Corbyn is offering can’t see that many of those who do have acknowledged his shortcomings as not being the snidey political opponent that sticks the knife in. It’s bigger than that and I still firmly believe it’s now bigger than a Corbyn.
For me, although he’s failed to stick the knife in a number of times, the desperate need for the shift that’s closer than ever will organically suffocate those in Westminster who probably deserve a good political shanking.
I wouldn’t give up hope yet, Mr. Foot. Not so long as Zed is around.
No, not at the moment
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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 22:32 - Mar 20 with 3066 views
Corbyn you cretin.nm on 22:31 - Mar 20 by ZedRodgers
People who don’t want the ticket Corbyn is offering can’t see that many of those who do have acknowledged his shortcomings as not being the snidey political opponent that sticks the knife in. It’s bigger than that and I still firmly believe it’s now bigger than a Corbyn.
For me, although he’s failed to stick the knife in a number of times, the desperate need for the shift that’s closer than ever will organically suffocate those in Westminster who probably deserve a good political shanking.
I wouldn’t give up hope yet, Mr. Foot. Not so long as Zed is around.
Let us swap bodily fluids in confirmation, brother. So long as men like you are around I shall never give up hope. x
footers QC - Prosecution Barrister, Hasketon Law Chambers
why did may want to involve such a third rate non-entity?
And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show
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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 22:44 - Mar 20 with 3039 views
Corbyn you cretin.nm on 21:16 - Mar 20 by ZedRodgers
Get a grip and remind yourselves what is happening.
Anyone arriving to realise it was just her announcing her intentions to bang on about taking back control of laws, money and borders and her deal being the best deal is within their right to walk out and spend the precious time we have on an actual solution.
Corbyn wanted a purposeful dialogue between the two people that could sort this situation out. Attributing blame to his frustration at this not being possible might make this all easier for you, but it’s wildly wide of the mark.
Chuka should not have been there in the first place - he’s a flip flopping hindrance to any compromise - but he probably should have walked out too. Then again it was an opportunity for him to remind people he still exists and to act like it’s not him that’s turned his back on the best chance of ending this farce of a government.
Have to disagree with you on Umunna. As the leader of a grouping within the HoC, he is a pretty much identical position to the representatives of the SNP, PC, the LibDems, Greens, DUP, etc.
Corbyn gets a bit of extra status as Leader of the Opposition, but not much.
Being honest, nothing was going to come from a purely bilateral discussion between him and May, in any case. She, as ever, is not shifting her position and he wouldn't have got any of the concessions he wanted.
Have to disagree with you on Umunna. As the leader of a grouping within the HoC, he is a pretty much identical position to the representatives of the SNP, PC, the LibDems, Greens, DUP, etc.
Corbyn gets a bit of extra status as Leader of the Opposition, but not much.
Being honest, nothing was going to come from a purely bilateral discussion between him and May, in any case. She, as ever, is not shifting her position and he wouldn't have got any of the concessions he wanted.
How does that sit, democratically, with you though? The TIG were never voted in, don't have a manifesto and aren't an actual political party atm? They're a private company. None of whom saw fit to hold a by-election.
May as well have a Tory resign the whip and represent GlaxoSmithKline at that rate.
footers QC - Prosecution Barrister, Hasketon Law Chambers
Have to disagree with you on Umunna. As the leader of a grouping within the HoC, he is a pretty much identical position to the representatives of the SNP, PC, the LibDems, Greens, DUP, etc.
Corbyn gets a bit of extra status as Leader of the Opposition, but not much.
Being honest, nothing was going to come from a purely bilateral discussion between him and May, in any case. She, as ever, is not shifting her position and he wouldn't have got any of the concessions he wanted.
On that basis, shouldn’t Jacob Rees-Mogg have been there?
Completely agree that the whole premise of it was pointless. As I’ve said, it was a Robbie Gibb PR stunt which served as a prequel to her speech.
[Post edited 20 Mar 2019 23:04]
No, not at the moment
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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 23:16 - Mar 20 with 2979 views
Corbyn you cretin.nm on 23:03 - Mar 20 by ZedRodgers
On that basis, shouldn’t Jacob Rees-Mogg have been there?
Completely agree that the whole premise of it was pointless. As I’ve said, it was a Robbie Gibb PR stunt which served as a prequel to her speech.
[Post edited 20 Mar 2019 23:04]
He's the leader of a faction within a party. TIG members have resigned the whip from their former allegiance.
I'd love the ERG to split from the Conservatives. See how many of them lose their seats, too. Plus what happens to the Tory Party grassroots if their darlings fly the coop.
How does that sit, democratically, with you though? The TIG were never voted in, don't have a manifesto and aren't an actual political party atm? They're a private company. None of whom saw fit to hold a by-election.
May as well have a Tory resign the whip and represent GlaxoSmithKline at that rate.
They were all, individually, voted in. Theoretically on their merits as representatives of their constituents in the HoC.
This idea of political parties being monolithic, fixed and immutable is a very modern one (latter part of the 20th century) and, IMO, not a good one. They are descended from ad-hoc groupings to face specific challenges. I'd very much like it to go back to that way, rather than unwieldy blocs (based on little more than habit and tradition) who frequently don't agree internally on many subjects.
Lots of small parties, government by coalition, input from all sorts of people, not simply policy handed down from above.
He's the leader of a faction within a party. TIG members have resigned the whip from their former allegiance.
I'd love the ERG to split from the Conservatives. See how many of them lose their seats, too. Plus what happens to the Tory Party grassroots if their darlings fly the coop.
Of course I was playing devil’s advocate after you said Umunna should be there as the “leader of a grouping within HoC”. Rees-Mogg also fits that description perfectly. The ERG is a bigger HoC grouping, regardless of whether they are within a party.
There are nearly just as many non-TIG independent MPs as there are TIG MPs. Should they have picked a representative to attend on their behalf? After all, Umunna isn’t actually the leader of the TIG is he? He’s just a representative. They’ve said themselves they won’t be announcing a leader yet in their private company infancy.
I don’t really want to argue the semantics of what TIG actually is. I just want it to be known that I see the premise of the meeting to be a waste of time for anybody who attended.
[Post edited 20 Mar 2019 23:52]
No, not at the moment
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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 23:59 - Mar 20 with 2911 views
Corbyn you cretin.nm on 23:48 - Mar 20 by ZedRodgers
Of course I was playing devil’s advocate after you said Umunna should be there as the “leader of a grouping within HoC”. Rees-Mogg also fits that description perfectly. The ERG is a bigger HoC grouping, regardless of whether they are within a party.
There are nearly just as many non-TIG independent MPs as there are TIG MPs. Should they have picked a representative to attend on their behalf? After all, Umunna isn’t actually the leader of the TIG is he? He’s just a representative. They’ve said themselves they won’t be announcing a leader yet in their private company infancy.
I don’t really want to argue the semantics of what TIG actually is. I just want it to be known that I see the premise of the meeting to be a waste of time for anybody who attended.
[Post edited 20 Mar 2019 23:52]
Who is the current leader of the exiled tory miscreants? Or am I out-of-date and they've all been re-admitted?
Sex pests, the just-a-little-bit-too racists and the like.
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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 00:13 - Mar 21 with 2893 views
Corbyn you cretin.nm on 23:48 - Mar 20 by ZedRodgers
Of course I was playing devil’s advocate after you said Umunna should be there as the “leader of a grouping within HoC”. Rees-Mogg also fits that description perfectly. The ERG is a bigger HoC grouping, regardless of whether they are within a party.
There are nearly just as many non-TIG independent MPs as there are TIG MPs. Should they have picked a representative to attend on their behalf? After all, Umunna isn’t actually the leader of the TIG is he? He’s just a representative. They’ve said themselves they won’t be announcing a leader yet in their private company infancy.
I don’t really want to argue the semantics of what TIG actually is. I just want it to be known that I see the premise of the meeting to be a waste of time for anybody who attended.
[Post edited 20 Mar 2019 23:52]
Actually, there are very few genuine Independents in the House at the moment - as opposed to MPs who have been suspended or expelled from their parties. Indeed, only one was elected after standing as such in 2017 (Sylvia Hermon, North Down, NI).
Three resigned the whip on matters of policy or principles (Frank Field, Ian Austin and Stephen Lloyd). The rest were all suspended (some subsequently resigned) or expelled over allegations of misconduct.
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