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Corbyn you cretin.nm 19:35 - Mar 20 with 21432 viewsgiant_stow

m

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:22 - Mar 21 with 1198 viewsfooters

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 08:25 - Mar 21 by Steve_M

"I've waited all my voting life for anything close to an opportunity to vote in something close to a socialist party. Always voted Labour despite them not being that, but still being better than the Tories. Corbyn may be unpopular but his project (or at least large aspects of it) appeal to me. "

But on this point, you would have far more chance of achieving that goal if the Labour Party wasn't lead by an incompetent with 40 years of baggage, surrounded by people who also have decades of baggage.


That much we can agree on. But people are more concerned about the presidential style than any substance on policy.

"Why are train tickets going up again?"
"Why is the NHS underfunded?"
"Why am I having to donate money to my kid's school?"
"Why are energy prices going up again?"

If only there were something we could do!

I agree that I'd rather have someone else than a bloke who looks like he's handing out the Socialist Worker, but then again I don't trust anyone else to keep to a fairly leftist position.

This country has moved so far to the right it's unbelievable. Anyone to the left of Theresa May is now some kind of anarcho-syndicalist nutjob.

Still, let's all keep carping on about Corbyn rather than the real issues. Oh well, you get what you vote for. Enjoy.

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:24 - Mar 21 with 1191 viewsgiant_stow

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:13 - Mar 21 by ZedRodgers

Trust is something which is not compatible with Chuka Umunna. TIG have already made clear the condition on which they will support her deal (and avoid a general election), so what's the point? Why is anybody entertaining another Robbie Gibb PR stunt?

It's a fatuous non-story. The argument that he should have attended just so people didn't talk about him not attending is surreal. People are acknowledging the pointlessness of it whilst inferring that it's important. Are there not more pertinent points to make "at the time when we are facing a national crisis"?


I admire your skills Zed - your excellent use of written English and powerful knowledge, mixed with large doses of humanity really do help to paint your desired picture. The trouble is that increasingly, you have no raw material to work with.

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:31 - Mar 21 with 1164 viewsBackToRussia

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:22 - Mar 21 by footers

That much we can agree on. But people are more concerned about the presidential style than any substance on policy.

"Why are train tickets going up again?"
"Why is the NHS underfunded?"
"Why am I having to donate money to my kid's school?"
"Why are energy prices going up again?"

If only there were something we could do!

I agree that I'd rather have someone else than a bloke who looks like he's handing out the Socialist Worker, but then again I don't trust anyone else to keep to a fairly leftist position.

This country has moved so far to the right it's unbelievable. Anyone to the left of Theresa May is now some kind of anarcho-syndicalist nutjob.

Still, let's all keep carping on about Corbyn rather than the real issues. Oh well, you get what you vote for. Enjoy.


Good post pal. I remember posting about the Stansted 15 after a long thread about racism and xenophobia in British politics. I found it syptomal that low house and GB suddenly stopped replying. There are real awful things happening in this country like legitimate citizens being stripped of citizenship and/or deported, and of course most it can be laid at the government's door. For all SteveMs posts saying Corbyn provides no opposition, where is the public holding the government to account? Neck and neck in the polls show that really, people are happy with this tory government and don't want anything to change. People should want Corbyn in regardless of whether he attends this meeting or that because its our only real chance of changing the direction of the country for the better.

Do you honestly believe Chukka will give you something different to the last 20 years? Because you're a fool and you're complicit in this country becoming poorer and having less to be proud of.

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:35 - Mar 21 with 1150 viewsfooters

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:31 - Mar 21 by BackToRussia

Good post pal. I remember posting about the Stansted 15 after a long thread about racism and xenophobia in British politics. I found it syptomal that low house and GB suddenly stopped replying. There are real awful things happening in this country like legitimate citizens being stripped of citizenship and/or deported, and of course most it can be laid at the government's door. For all SteveMs posts saying Corbyn provides no opposition, where is the public holding the government to account? Neck and neck in the polls show that really, people are happy with this tory government and don't want anything to change. People should want Corbyn in regardless of whether he attends this meeting or that because its our only real chance of changing the direction of the country for the better.

Do you honestly believe Chukka will give you something different to the last 20 years? Because you're a fool and you're complicit in this country becoming poorer and having less to be proud of.


Let's look forward to these people explaining to their kids why, when there was a legitimate opportunity to reverse Tory-imposed austerity, they didn't because Corbyn looked a bit scruffy.

And I've also had enough of the left infantilising the working class. They're not stupid, they know what they're voting for - I'm with Herb's position now. Hey, you Brexit supporting Tory-voters out there, enjoy this mess, it's all of your own making.


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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:42 - Mar 21 with 1134 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:22 - Mar 21 by footers

That much we can agree on. But people are more concerned about the presidential style than any substance on policy.

"Why are train tickets going up again?"
"Why is the NHS underfunded?"
"Why am I having to donate money to my kid's school?"
"Why are energy prices going up again?"

If only there were something we could do!

I agree that I'd rather have someone else than a bloke who looks like he's handing out the Socialist Worker, but then again I don't trust anyone else to keep to a fairly leftist position.

This country has moved so far to the right it's unbelievable. Anyone to the left of Theresa May is now some kind of anarcho-syndicalist nutjob.

Still, let's all keep carping on about Corbyn rather than the real issues. Oh well, you get what you vote for. Enjoy.


 "Anyone to the left of Theresa May is now some kind of anarcho-syndicalist nutjob."

...I feel all smeared, no more bum fests for me then....was it Brexit?

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:43 - Mar 21 with 1130 viewsgiant_stow

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:42 - Mar 21 by BanksterDebtSlave

 "Anyone to the left of Theresa May is now some kind of anarcho-syndicalist nutjob."

...I feel all smeared, no more bum fests for me then....was it Brexit?


I too thought that was a cruel shot at your good self. brute.

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry. Was Ullaa
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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:44 - Mar 21 with 1125 viewsZedRodgers

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:16 - Mar 21 by StokieBlue

So it's not a trust issue with regards to May now then and an appropriate response to questioning his walkout is an attack on Chuka's character?

This isn't the kinder politics Zed.

Guess this is one we disagree on.

SB
[Post edited 21 Mar 2019 9:17]


It's a trust issue with Umunna, for me. TIG have made it clear that they will pursue a people's vote at any cost (even at the expense of a people's vote according to the official people's vote campaign) and will keep the Conservatives in government at any cost. They are not worth negotiating with and their intentions should be scrutinised more than they are. Umunna would have come out of the meeting with a negative soundbite about Corbyn regardless. May and Gibb's desperate snideyness is a separate point.

This whole incident is a non-story and I won't be spending any more time on it.

I don't think people should waste their energy reacting to the "Corbyn storms out of talks" hyperbole in the way that they are but I've said my piece and acknowledge that you and others disagree. I think the reaction from Bloom and his ilk are what this story has been designed for. Rational bods should look beyond it.

No, not at the moment

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:45 - Mar 21 with 1117 viewsgiant_stow

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:31 - Mar 21 by BackToRussia

Good post pal. I remember posting about the Stansted 15 after a long thread about racism and xenophobia in British politics. I found it syptomal that low house and GB suddenly stopped replying. There are real awful things happening in this country like legitimate citizens being stripped of citizenship and/or deported, and of course most it can be laid at the government's door. For all SteveMs posts saying Corbyn provides no opposition, where is the public holding the government to account? Neck and neck in the polls show that really, people are happy with this tory government and don't want anything to change. People should want Corbyn in regardless of whether he attends this meeting or that because its our only real chance of changing the direction of the country for the better.

Do you honestly believe Chukka will give you something different to the last 20 years? Because you're a fool and you're complicit in this country becoming poorer and having less to be proud of.


I don;t think its fair to blame the public for Corbyn's failure to oppose May on brexit (which is by the far the biggest single issue). He's a tory enabler. There's no one for the public to get behind with half the country unrepresented in the biggest issue in decades.

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:49 - Mar 21 with 1102 viewsBackToRussia

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:45 - Mar 21 by giant_stow

I don;t think its fair to blame the public for Corbyn's failure to oppose May on brexit (which is by the far the biggest single issue). He's a tory enabler. There's no one for the public to get behind with half the country unrepresented in the biggest issue in decades.


Oppose how? He has opposed the deal she is putting through and called for a general election which, considering the huge range of dissenting and contradictory voices, seems logical to me. I'm actually yet to see what corbyns opposition to brexit should be, other than another referendum, which is undemocratic and pointless. No one else has a farking clue, why should he? Let's just leave and get on with it.

Also he invited may for cross party talks 2 years ago, so him leaving a meeting now is sort of irrelevant isn't it. May has waited until the night before to do her homework.

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:53 - Mar 21 with 1091 viewsHerbivore

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:49 - Mar 21 by BackToRussia

Oppose how? He has opposed the deal she is putting through and called for a general election which, considering the huge range of dissenting and contradictory voices, seems logical to me. I'm actually yet to see what corbyns opposition to brexit should be, other than another referendum, which is undemocratic and pointless. No one else has a farking clue, why should he? Let's just leave and get on with it.

Also he invited may for cross party talks 2 years ago, so him leaving a meeting now is sort of irrelevant isn't it. May has waited until the night before to do her homework.


Another referendum is undemocratic and pointless? Wtf? A GE at this point is utterly pointless and a shameless power grab. Like many on the left I was pleased to see Labour shift that way, but sadly I've found Corbyn to be a massive disappointment. He's got the leadership capability of a wet flannel.

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:54 - Mar 21 with 1088 viewsStokieBlue

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:49 - Mar 21 by BackToRussia

Oppose how? He has opposed the deal she is putting through and called for a general election which, considering the huge range of dissenting and contradictory voices, seems logical to me. I'm actually yet to see what corbyns opposition to brexit should be, other than another referendum, which is undemocratic and pointless. No one else has a farking clue, why should he? Let's just leave and get on with it.

Also he invited may for cross party talks 2 years ago, so him leaving a meeting now is sort of irrelevant isn't it. May has waited until the night before to do her homework.


Out of interest, why is another referendum undemocratic but a general election which will clearly just be decided by their Brexit stances democratic?

SB

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:54 - Mar 21 with 1086 viewsHerbivore

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:54 - Mar 21 by StokieBlue

Out of interest, why is another referendum undemocratic but a general election which will clearly just be decided by their Brexit stances democratic?

SB


Quite. We had a GE less than two years ago ffs.

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 10:00 - Mar 21 with 1074 viewsBackToRussia

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:54 - Mar 21 by StokieBlue

Out of interest, why is another referendum undemocratic but a general election which will clearly just be decided by their Brexit stances democratic?

SB


Because the referendum was a yes or no. But obviously no can mean numerous things. As we have discovered to our cost. We've reached the biggest parlimanetary impasse in the history of British politics and we need to put it to the vote to put a new power situation in place that avoids the deadlock. A hung parliament in a time of huge political change for the country isn't ideal is it.

I don't quite see how you can ever argue a general election is undemocratic. Putting the same question to the vote is. If there was a general election and then right after that politicians called for another one as they didn't like the result, that would be undemocratic of course.

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 10:00 - Mar 21 with 1073 viewsgiant_stow

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:49 - Mar 21 by BackToRussia

Oppose how? He has opposed the deal she is putting through and called for a general election which, considering the huge range of dissenting and contradictory voices, seems logical to me. I'm actually yet to see what corbyns opposition to brexit should be, other than another referendum, which is undemocratic and pointless. No one else has a farking clue, why should he? Let's just leave and get on with it.

Also he invited may for cross party talks 2 years ago, so him leaving a meeting now is sort of irrelevant isn't it. May has waited until the night before to do her homework.


Half the people in this country voted for Remain. The vast majority of labour voters want to remain. Corbyn didn't back them up (so much for his new way and internal labour democracy) by supporting another referendum. He instead choose to argue for a different form of Brexit:: Brexit which can only be Tory thing - It can only hurt the poorest and most vulnerable. He's a Tory enabler ergo there's no one to unite the public in opposition to the Tories.

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 10:01 - Mar 21 with 1070 viewsBackToRussia

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:53 - Mar 21 by Herbivore

Another referendum is undemocratic and pointless? Wtf? A GE at this point is utterly pointless and a shameless power grab. Like many on the left I was pleased to see Labour shift that way, but sadly I've found Corbyn to be a massive disappointment. He's got the leadership capability of a wet flannel.


Yes I already know you're a purist.

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 10:02 - Mar 21 with 1067 viewsBackToRussia

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 10:00 - Mar 21 by giant_stow

Half the people in this country voted for Remain. The vast majority of labour voters want to remain. Corbyn didn't back them up (so much for his new way and internal labour democracy) by supporting another referendum. He instead choose to argue for a different form of Brexit:: Brexit which can only be Tory thing - It can only hurt the poorest and most vulnerable. He's a Tory enabler ergo there's no one to unite the public in opposition to the Tories.


You lost, get over it. Half the country didn't vote remain did it otherwise it would have been a tie.

Also guess whose idea the referendum was?

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 10:07 - Mar 21 with 1052 viewsgiant_stow

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 10:02 - Mar 21 by BackToRussia

You lost, get over it. Half the country didn't vote remain did it otherwise it would have been a tie.

Also guess whose idea the referendum was?


A Tory's? Who's argued against it? Not labour.

The 'you lost line' is straight out of the right wing playbook and semi fascist. Democracy stopped after the vote right?

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 10:08 - Mar 21 with 1050 viewsHerbivore

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 10:00 - Mar 21 by BackToRussia

Because the referendum was a yes or no. But obviously no can mean numerous things. As we have discovered to our cost. We've reached the biggest parlimanetary impasse in the history of British politics and we need to put it to the vote to put a new power situation in place that avoids the deadlock. A hung parliament in a time of huge political change for the country isn't ideal is it.

I don't quite see how you can ever argue a general election is undemocratic. Putting the same question to the vote is. If there was a general election and then right after that politicians called for another one as they didn't like the result, that would be undemocratic of course.


A second referendum wouldn't be asking exactly the same question. A GE would likely lead to another hung parliament so is utterly pointless. It's been less than 2 years since the last one ffs. I want the Tories out as much as the next man but Brexit is bigger than party politics and needs to be resolved first.

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 10:10 - Mar 21 with 1043 viewsStokieBlue

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 10:00 - Mar 21 by BackToRussia

Because the referendum was a yes or no. But obviously no can mean numerous things. As we have discovered to our cost. We've reached the biggest parlimanetary impasse in the history of British politics and we need to put it to the vote to put a new power situation in place that avoids the deadlock. A hung parliament in a time of huge political change for the country isn't ideal is it.

I don't quite see how you can ever argue a general election is undemocratic. Putting the same question to the vote is. If there was a general election and then right after that politicians called for another one as they didn't like the result, that would be undemocratic of course.


I don’t think you’ve answered my question, apologies if I didn’t understand the reply.

Given any GE will be fought with the issue of Brexit being the main issue how is a GE more democratic than another referendum. Whilst they may be different in historical context, at the moment they would be essentially the same thing.

I think it’s unrealistic to expect Labour to achieve a majority, at best it will just be another hung parliament with Labour in a minority government. How is that helpful, you’ve just said a hung parliament is a massive issue.

Unless you actually want a GE to implement domestic policies and Brexit is a mechanism to achieve that power in which case your arguments make total sense.

SB

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 10:10 - Mar 21 with 1042 viewsSteve_M

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 09:35 - Mar 21 by footers

Let's look forward to these people explaining to their kids why, when there was a legitimate opportunity to reverse Tory-imposed austerity, they didn't because Corbyn looked a bit scruffy.

And I've also had enough of the left infantilising the working class. They're not stupid, they know what they're voting for - I'm with Herb's position now. Hey, you Brexit supporting Tory-voters out there, enjoy this mess, it's all of your own making.



The last Labour manifesto didn't do very much to reduce austerity though did it? The signature policy was scrapping tuition fees to get the student vote.

I've been a persistent critic of austerity and the real damage it's done to the state. It was always an ideological project to shrink the state and Labour's failure to argue against the Tory view was the greatest failing of the Milliband era. I don't think that's merely a socialist position anymore, if it was in the first place, it's one shared by a large part of the country.

Style of leadership does matter though, most people aren't as interested in politics as you and I are and make judgements fairly quickly. That's less than optimal but it is reality.

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 10:11 - Mar 21 with 1040 viewsBackToRussia

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 10:10 - Mar 21 by Steve_M

The last Labour manifesto didn't do very much to reduce austerity though did it? The signature policy was scrapping tuition fees to get the student vote.

I've been a persistent critic of austerity and the real damage it's done to the state. It was always an ideological project to shrink the state and Labour's failure to argue against the Tory view was the greatest failing of the Milliband era. I don't think that's merely a socialist position anymore, if it was in the first place, it's one shared by a large part of the country.

Style of leadership does matter though, most people aren't as interested in politics as you and I are and make judgements fairly quickly. That's less than optimal but it is reality.


Style over substance then. You want Blair and you will get him.

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 10:14 - Mar 21 with 1035 viewsBackToRussia

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 10:10 - Mar 21 by StokieBlue

I don’t think you’ve answered my question, apologies if I didn’t understand the reply.

Given any GE will be fought with the issue of Brexit being the main issue how is a GE more democratic than another referendum. Whilst they may be different in historical context, at the moment they would be essentially the same thing.

I think it’s unrealistic to expect Labour to achieve a majority, at best it will just be another hung parliament with Labour in a minority government. How is that helpful, you’ve just said a hung parliament is a massive issue.

Unless you actually want a GE to implement domestic policies and Brexit is a mechanism to achieve that power in which case your arguments make total sense.

SB


It's undemocratic to have another referendum as it's just a straight, closed question. A ge is very clearly not that, and given we are in the midst of the biggest parliamentary impasse in British political history, I'd say we need to do something.

Maybe it'd be another hung parliament (maybe it wouldn't also), but even so the makeup of MPs would be different. The tories being propped up by the dup is absurd.

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 10:15 - Mar 21 with 1032 viewsBackToRussia

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 10:08 - Mar 21 by Herbivore

A second referendum wouldn't be asking exactly the same question. A GE would likely lead to another hung parliament so is utterly pointless. It's been less than 2 years since the last one ffs. I want the Tories out as much as the next man but Brexit is bigger than party politics and needs to be resolved first.


No? What's the question going to be then?

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 10:16 - Mar 21 with 1030 viewsBackToRussia

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 10:07 - Mar 21 by giant_stow

A Tory's? Who's argued against it? Not labour.

The 'you lost line' is straight out of the right wing playbook and semi fascist. Democracy stopped after the vote right?


Did you just call me a fascist for respecting a democratic vote?

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Corbyn you cretin.nm on 10:18 - Mar 21 with 1024 viewsHerbivore

Corbyn you cretin.nm on 10:15 - Mar 21 by BackToRussia

No? What's the question going to be then?


Any second referendum would be on the negotiated deal versus remain. Leave would be something concrete.

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