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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually 10:58 - Mar 21 with 25771 viewsunstableblue

... trying to run our country and improve it, based on being in a solid trading block.

Brexit is a dead duck, that was mis-sold. There is no resolution that is worth the negatives. Lets get back in Europe and be a strong reforming voice.


https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

If you think Brexit can be solved in anything under 5 to 7 years you are misguided. We haven't even started the process in anger.

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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:00 - Mar 21 with 1234 viewshomer_123

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 11:53 - Mar 21 by Herbivore

I think there needs to be a second referendum ideally, though we're running out of time for that.


So, the first referendum was flawed but you want a second?

Forgive me but that does, somewhat, smack of 'I don't like the result of the first' so we'll keep going until we get a result I like.

If the 2nd referendum still comes out leave, what then?

Ade Akinbiyi couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo...
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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:01 - Mar 21 with 1235 viewsGuthrum

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 11:53 - Mar 21 by Herbivore

I think there needs to be a second referendum ideally, though we're running out of time for that.


We ran out of time for that months ago. Even deciding what would be on the ballot is an extremely vexed question, liable to produce endless debate and pram-toy throwings.

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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:01 - Mar 21 with 1237 viewsLuciBlue

Why is it assumed that every leave voter was misled?
Can someone not do their own research or just vote on a personal feeling. This attitude that all leave voters are gullible fools doesn't help debate.

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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:02 - Mar 21 with 1233 viewshomer_123

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 11:48 - Mar 21 by Guthrum

Much as we might like to (myself included), we can't simply pretend it never happened. Because it did and a lot of people felt strongly enough to vote in favour of leaving.

If we are to abandon the prospect of leaving the EU, then the issues which were raised (sovreignty, political union, immigration/the refugee crisis, expense, transparency, fisheries, etc.) will have to have a demonstrably viable plan to deal with them. And how are people to trust the government will carry that out, or that the EU would accept reform in those areas (even tho we are not the only country concerned about those things)?

Because they won't go away otherwise and will continue to affect political life in the UK.


Absolutely, there seems to be an assumption that staying within the EU will mean going back to the way it was prior to 2016.

It won't. The can of worms has been opened.

Ade Akinbiyi couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo...
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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:03 - Mar 21 with 1228 viewsHerbivore

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:00 - Mar 21 by homer_123

So, the first referendum was flawed but you want a second?

Forgive me but that does, somewhat, smack of 'I don't like the result of the first' so we'll keep going until we get a result I like.

If the 2nd referendum still comes out leave, what then?


Then we leave. I'm not sure why people struggle with that. First time around the leave campaign offered no clear vision for Brexit, they lied, they broke electoral law to an extent to which we still don't fully know. A concrete vote on a leave option (whatever deal is most popular) versus remain offers a clear choice. If leave wins then so be it.

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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:04 - Mar 21 with 1226 viewsHerbivore

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:01 - Mar 21 by Guthrum

We ran out of time for that months ago. Even deciding what would be on the ballot is an extremely vexed question, liable to produce endless debate and pram-toy throwings.


So then we should just accept a damaging Brexit?

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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:06 - Mar 21 with 1221 viewsHerbivore

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:02 - Mar 21 by homer_123

Absolutely, there seems to be an assumption that staying within the EU will mean going back to the way it was prior to 2016.

It won't. The can of worms has been opened.


It will be the same. This has been clarified already. Stop trotting out this false line that remaining represents as big an unknown as leaving. It doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.

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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:06 - Mar 21 with 1219 viewsWeWereZombies

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:01 - Mar 21 by Guthrum

We ran out of time for that months ago. Even deciding what would be on the ballot is an extremely vexed question, liable to produce endless debate and pram-toy throwings.


So the only option is to revoke Article 50?

A lot of people will not like that, better to take a deep breath, realise that there is still time and get us all to the polling booths, now that we are a lot better informed, and do a referendum on membership of the European Union properly.

It is very simple, we put the question to the people as before because all of the attempts at negotiation have not produced a viable deal.

[edit] Although I am in favour of revoking Article 50 (but also having a second referendum) - petition just signed and been informed up to 820, 319 now, not a bad morning's work for whoever drafted this one.
[Post edited 21 Mar 2019 12:19]

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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:09 - Mar 21 with 1206 viewshomer_123

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:03 - Mar 21 by Herbivore

Then we leave. I'm not sure why people struggle with that. First time around the leave campaign offered no clear vision for Brexit, they lied, they broke electoral law to an extent to which we still don't fully know. A concrete vote on a leave option (whatever deal is most popular) versus remain offers a clear choice. If leave wins then so be it.


OK, I understand that thinking.

But you have to admit, that approach wasn't offered to the public at the time of the first referendum (i.e. we weren't told that there would be a second).

That said, I understand where you are coming from. Either way - as I posted above, the can of worms is opened, even if we do stay, this will have a major impact on how people feel about politics, the political system etc

Ade Akinbiyi couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo...
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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:11 - Mar 21 with 1200 viewshomer_123

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:06 - Mar 21 by Herbivore

It will be the same. This has been clarified already. Stop trotting out this false line that remaining represents as big an unknown as leaving. It doesn't stand up to any scrutiny.


Huh?

I'm well aware that the European Court has said we can simply revoke Article 50 and things go back to the way they were - I've posted enough times on it!

What I mean is, from a UK public perspective, it won;'t go back to the way it was. This whole process has been divisive and if you think that simply going back to the way things were, it won't. As Guthers has clearly pointed out.

Ade Akinbiyi couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo...
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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:11 - Mar 21 with 1200 viewsWeWereZombies

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:01 - Mar 21 by LuciBlue

Why is it assumed that every leave voter was misled?
Can someone not do their own research or just vote on a personal feeling. This attitude that all leave voters are gullible fools doesn't help debate.


This is typically extreme Brexit, or extreme right on any issue. Requesting that every single person be found and interviewed, very KGB.

We all know what happened and we can accept that some did their research and had valid reasons for believing an exit from the European Union was the best way forward for our state.

However, the way the campaigns were run was crude and not fit for purpose. They were unworthy of our Parliament and not in accord with British traditions of democratic endeavour, especially in their appeal to base emotions. Time for us all to grow up.

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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:11 - Mar 21 with 1199 viewsHerbivore

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:09 - Mar 21 by homer_123

OK, I understand that thinking.

But you have to admit, that approach wasn't offered to the public at the time of the first referendum (i.e. we weren't told that there would be a second).

That said, I understand where you are coming from. Either way - as I posted above, the can of worms is opened, even if we do stay, this will have a major impact on how people feel about politics, the political system etc


JRM is on record as saying there should be two referendums funnily enough, with a second one to ratify the deal. The first referendum was deeply flawed on so many levels, one of the most significant being the total lack of clarity around what leaving might actually look like.

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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:13 - Mar 21 with 1193 viewsHerbivore

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:11 - Mar 21 by homer_123

Huh?

I'm well aware that the European Court has said we can simply revoke Article 50 and things go back to the way they were - I've posted enough times on it!

What I mean is, from a UK public perspective, it won;'t go back to the way it was. This whole process has been divisive and if you think that simply going back to the way things were, it won't. As Guthers has clearly pointed out.


Apologies. I agree that domestically things have changed and those changes are irreversible. I do think it's easier to fix a broken society from a position of relative stability, however, which is why I still favour remaining.

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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:19 - Mar 21 with 1171 viewsBloomBlue

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:03 - Mar 21 by Herbivore

Then we leave. I'm not sure why people struggle with that. First time around the leave campaign offered no clear vision for Brexit, they lied, they broke electoral law to an extent to which we still don't fully know. A concrete vote on a leave option (whatever deal is most popular) versus remain offers a clear choice. If leave wins then so be it.


And if remain wins we have another vote in 3 years, correct?
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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:21 - Mar 21 with 1166 viewsHerbivore

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:19 - Mar 21 by BloomBlue

And if remain wins we have another vote in 3 years, correct?


This isn't a game of rock, paper, scissors with your mates.

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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:21 - Mar 21 with 1166 viewsWithnail

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 11:55 - Mar 21 by WeWereZombies

June 2016 is history, we need to plan for the future and not be dragged down by the past.


So rerun a referendum that was done in the past?

Time to move on now. You lost. Get over it.
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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:21 - Mar 21 with 1164 viewsGuthrum

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:04 - Mar 21 by Herbivore

So then we should just accept a damaging Brexit?


No. More that Ref2 now will require a considerable (far more than three months) extension. Then add time to digest and implement the result, including negotiations with the EU. We could be looking at another couple of years.

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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:22 - Mar 21 with 1160 viewsGuthrum

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:06 - Mar 21 by WeWereZombies

So the only option is to revoke Article 50?

A lot of people will not like that, better to take a deep breath, realise that there is still time and get us all to the polling booths, now that we are a lot better informed, and do a referendum on membership of the European Union properly.

It is very simple, we put the question to the people as before because all of the attempts at negotiation have not produced a viable deal.

[edit] Although I am in favour of revoking Article 50 (but also having a second referendum) - petition just signed and been informed up to 820, 319 now, not a bad morning's work for whoever drafted this one.
[Post edited 21 Mar 2019 12:19]


As I said to Herbs, will require a long extension to A50.

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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:23 - Mar 21 with 1160 viewsHerbivore

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:21 - Mar 21 by Guthrum

No. More that Ref2 now will require a considerable (far more than three months) extension. Then add time to digest and implement the result, including negotiations with the EU. We could be looking at another couple of years.


Then that's what should happen. It's time for difficult decisions to be made.

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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:24 - Mar 21 with 1158 viewsWeWereZombies

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:19 - Mar 21 by BloomBlue

And if remain wins we have another vote in 3 years, correct?


We do not need a further referendum if the second one is carried out with attention to detail, as clear an understanding as is reasonable and with appropriate British dignity. The first one was too deeply flawed for millions to accept it. If you think Leave will win a second time you have nothing to fear and no reason to run scared. I f you think Remain will win then consider why so many are convinced that theirs is the right way forward.

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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:27 - Mar 21 with 1149 viewsGuthrum

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:13 - Mar 21 by Herbivore

Apologies. I agree that domestically things have changed and those changes are irreversible. I do think it's easier to fix a broken society from a position of relative stability, however, which is why I still favour remaining.


Indeed. That was why I was in favour of staying in at the time.

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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:29 - Mar 21 with 1142 viewshomer_123

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:13 - Mar 21 by Herbivore

Apologies. I agree that domestically things have changed and those changes are irreversible. I do think it's easier to fix a broken society from a position of relative stability, however, which is why I still favour remaining.


I hear you Herbs.

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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:30 - Mar 21 with 1140 viewsBloomBlue

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:24 - Mar 21 by WeWereZombies

We do not need a further referendum if the second one is carried out with attention to detail, as clear an understanding as is reasonable and with appropriate British dignity. The first one was too deeply flawed for millions to accept it. If you think Leave will win a second time you have nothing to fear and no reason to run scared. I f you think Remain will win then consider why so many are convinced that theirs is the right way forward.


Deeply flawed by millions you mean remain voters. So if leave lose the second vote but those millions think the second vote is flawed, you just ignore them. Democracy is alive and kicking.
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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:31 - Mar 21 with 1138 viewsnoggin

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 11:34 - Mar 21 by Pecker

Remember that I voted remain, but the referendum result should be upheld.


If it's the will of the people, you won't mind confirming it with a new referendum.

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Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:33 - Mar 21 with 1134 viewsGuthrum

Sign the petition people and let's get back to actually on 12:23 - Mar 21 by Herbivore

Then that's what should happen. It's time for difficult decisions to be made.


Wouldn't be a problem for me. Better to get things right slowly than achieve a swift cock-up.

But it is only fair to address Leaver fears that every delay is a step on the road to an underhand reversal. Transparency of process is essential. In addition, considering the potential damage extended uncertainty could do to business (less than crashing out, I know, but still a factor).

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