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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK 13:09 - Apr 5 with 3407 viewsmos

"More than 11,000 pubs have closed in the UK in the past decade, according to the latest data from the Office for National Statistics – a fall of almost a quarter."

Three pubs close everyday in the UK. Shocking.


*During the years 2008-2018 that is*

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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 13:14 - Apr 5 with 2222 viewsMarshalls_Mullet

They are mainly rubbish pubs that make no money, or have changed due to;

Changing consumer habits
Demographic changes
Physical Obsolescence
Increased competition from the casual dining sector

On the plus side, I was looking at a property for a client today that would convert to make a fantastic destination pub!

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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 14:33 - Apr 5 with 2175 viewsITFC_Forever

The UK has been enormously over-pubbed for years.

People's habits have changed and pubs are no longer the centre of the community, people do many, many more things with their time and money now than "go down the pub"

Therefore, the pubs had a real survival of the fittest time of it, and need to know exactly what they are and who their customer is.... are they food-led? Community boozer? Late night venue? Whichever they are, they need to be damn good at it as well.

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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 17:08 - Apr 5 with 1965 viewsfactual_blue

10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 13:14 - Apr 5 by Marshalls_Mullet

They are mainly rubbish pubs that make no money, or have changed due to;

Changing consumer habits
Demographic changes
Physical Obsolescence
Increased competition from the casual dining sector

On the plus side, I was looking at a property for a client today that would convert to make a fantastic destination pub!


The fact that breweries tend to operate a financial model the mafia would recognise doesn't help things.

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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 17:13 - Apr 5 with 1955 viewsjeera

10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 13:14 - Apr 5 by Marshalls_Mullet

They are mainly rubbish pubs that make no money, or have changed due to;

Changing consumer habits
Demographic changes
Physical Obsolescence
Increased competition from the casual dining sector

On the plus side, I was looking at a property for a client today that would convert to make a fantastic destination pub!


Impossible running costs.

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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 17:25 - Apr 5 with 1923 viewsclive_baker

Partly sad, but also the case that some of those lost pubs were hell holes. When I moved to my area of South London 5 years ago there were about 7 pubs within a 10 minute walk of mine, and now there are 4. The 4 remaining though are all nice, good food, good atmosphere etc and offer something different to each other - whether you want sport, or a bit of a 'nicer' meal etc. The ones that have bitten the dust were all nasty, dated places that you wouldn't really want to drink in. So I see it as a bit of a cleanse, that said I know of some formerly nice village pubs that have closed which is a shame. A few around Suffolk spring to mind.

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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 17:33 - Apr 5 with 1896 viewsOldsmoker

But Shirley every pub in the country closes every day.
I don't know of any 24 hour pubs.

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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 17:37 - Apr 5 with 1882 viewsgtsb

Can someone explain to me how a pint in a Wetherspoons can be at least a pound cheaper and usually more than the same pint in another pub. For instance how can a pint of horrible Greene King ipa be two quid in a Spoons but three quid in a Greene King pub.
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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 17:43 - Apr 5 with 1863 viewsjeera

10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 17:37 - Apr 5 by gtsb

Can someone explain to me how a pint in a Wetherspoons can be at least a pound cheaper and usually more than the same pint in another pub. For instance how can a pint of horrible Greene King ipa be two quid in a Spoons but three quid in a Greene King pub.


Bulk buy close to use by dates and rely on quick turn-around?

If you run a brewery producing vast quantities, it's also in your interests to have someone at hand to take surplus stock off your hands that needs using asap surely.

Dunno.

Maybe they just rely on the stack 'em high - sell 'em cheap philosophy regardless and work on small margins.

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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 17:46 - Apr 5 with 1855 viewsgtsb

10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 17:43 - Apr 5 by jeera

Bulk buy close to use by dates and rely on quick turn-around?

If you run a brewery producing vast quantities, it's also in your interests to have someone at hand to take surplus stock off your hands that needs using asap surely.

Dunno.

Maybe they just rely on the stack 'em high - sell 'em cheap philosophy regardless and work on small margins.


I get that but GK sell cheap beer to Spoons whilst their pubs go under due to some part in the competition being cheaper....like Spoons. I'm confused
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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 19:19 - Apr 5 with 1780 viewsLord_Lucan

10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 17:25 - Apr 5 by clive_baker

Partly sad, but also the case that some of those lost pubs were hell holes. When I moved to my area of South London 5 years ago there were about 7 pubs within a 10 minute walk of mine, and now there are 4. The 4 remaining though are all nice, good food, good atmosphere etc and offer something different to each other - whether you want sport, or a bit of a 'nicer' meal etc. The ones that have bitten the dust were all nasty, dated places that you wouldn't really want to drink in. So I see it as a bit of a cleanse, that said I know of some formerly nice village pubs that have closed which is a shame. A few around Suffolk spring to mind.


I think it’s very sad.

Some people like going in pubs that don’t serve food and don’t have families - I know I do.

I don’t like a pub unless you have got a fair chance of being shot.

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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 19:35 - Apr 5 with 1752 viewsSwansea_Blue

And despite my best efforts too, hic!

We used to have a lovely crusty local right by us, but it got poncified. Now we get all the 'stars' (it's Wales, so it's all relative) going there tweeting pictures of their 'meals' (3 tiny bits of something in an ocean of white porcelain, with a curly crispy thing on top and a dribbling of sauce).

Tbf it's nice, but it's had to find a niche to survive. Not the sort of place for a sesh.

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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 19:45 - Apr 5 with 1735 viewsgainsboroughblue

10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 19:19 - Apr 5 by Lord_Lucan

I think it’s very sad.

Some people like going in pubs that don’t serve food and don’t have families - I know I do.

I don’t like a pub unless you have got a fair chance of being shot.


I walked past the Golden Hind earlier. It would appear they are looking for someone new to take over there. If the landlord in there is the same guy I remember from a few years back, he was a decent fella doing a good job.
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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 20:00 - Apr 5 with 1718 viewsLord_Lucan

10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 19:45 - Apr 5 by gainsboroughblue

I walked past the Golden Hind earlier. It would appear they are looking for someone new to take over there. If the landlord in there is the same guy I remember from a few years back, he was a decent fella doing a good job.


The old bloke left - I doubt the place will ever recover.

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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 20:58 - Apr 5 with 1678 viewsjeera

10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 17:46 - Apr 5 by gtsb

I get that but GK sell cheap beer to Spoons whilst their pubs go under due to some part in the competition being cheaper....like Spoons. I'm confused


Oh I see, sorry.

Then I suppose GK don't view WS as direct competition across the board and are happy to accept WS serve a demographic they do not actively target themselves anymore.

Many of the old GK pubs have been given a face-lift haven't they, and gone down a different route.

But either way, they may as well be selling GK's product for them rather than someone else's.

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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 21:18 - Apr 5 with 1652 viewsLord_Lucan

10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 20:58 - Apr 5 by jeera

Oh I see, sorry.

Then I suppose GK don't view WS as direct competition across the board and are happy to accept WS serve a demographic they do not actively target themselves anymore.

Many of the old GK pubs have been given a face-lift haven't they, and gone down a different route.

But either way, they may as well be selling GK's product for them rather than someone else's.


Spoons will buy sh1t loads of nearly out of date beer and know that they will sell it. GK won’t supply their own pubs at those prices for obvious reasons, they need to keep to their margins.

Spoons is a handy tool to dump over production. Arguably Spoons keeps the independent prices down as GK sell their possible wastage.

What I want to know is why discount stores sell Carte Noir for £4 a unit when general retailers are £6+

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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 21:27 - Apr 5 with 1645 viewscatch74

10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 20:58 - Apr 5 by jeera

Oh I see, sorry.

Then I suppose GK don't view WS as direct competition across the board and are happy to accept WS serve a demographic they do not actively target themselves anymore.

Many of the old GK pubs have been given a face-lift haven't they, and gone down a different route.

But either way, they may as well be selling GK's product for them rather than someone else's.


A lot of GK pubs are tenancy/leased, Wetherspoons are all managed.
Wetherspoons have huge purchasing power. It’s a bit like supermarkets v small village shops. On top of that Spoons is about selling large quantity at small margin. When I was training with a previous company we weee shown company figures, Spoons were making £45million in profit a year - this was equal to the profits from there fruit machines over the year, so fine margins!
Factors has nailed it earlier, GK, Punch, Enterprise etc are appalling. If I want to buy a barrel of GK IPA, which I don’t, I’d be able to get it for about £85, a GK tenant or tied leaseholder would have to pay about £150!!
To add to this, I’ve met someone who helped recruit new tenants for these companies, they tasked him with finding people with zero experience, would give them a weeks training and let them loose. This was to avoid experienced operators who might know how to cut certain corners etc. On top of that they would allow ingoing tenants to invest their own life savings on the pub or a loan, payable with inflated beer prices.
The two pubs near me that have closed down have seen 4x bankrupted tenants, the saddest one being a young couple & kid who had to move into emergency housing having put all their money into tarting up a pub owned by a large pubco. Both of those pubs would be open still if they paid the same beer prices as myself.
Sorry, a long winded response but it gets my goat!

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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 21:32 - Apr 5 with 1643 viewsallezlesbleus

The traditional British Boozer is an iconic venue that has to be saved. No other country in the world has a better selection of pubs than the UK. It's such a shame to see that so many are going out of business. Bloody yoof of today, more worried about getting another tattoo or piercing, than socialising down a pub.
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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 23:45 - Apr 5 with 1569 viewsClapham_Junction

10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 21:27 - Apr 5 by catch74

A lot of GK pubs are tenancy/leased, Wetherspoons are all managed.
Wetherspoons have huge purchasing power. It’s a bit like supermarkets v small village shops. On top of that Spoons is about selling large quantity at small margin. When I was training with a previous company we weee shown company figures, Spoons were making £45million in profit a year - this was equal to the profits from there fruit machines over the year, so fine margins!
Factors has nailed it earlier, GK, Punch, Enterprise etc are appalling. If I want to buy a barrel of GK IPA, which I don’t, I’d be able to get it for about £85, a GK tenant or tied leaseholder would have to pay about £150!!
To add to this, I’ve met someone who helped recruit new tenants for these companies, they tasked him with finding people with zero experience, would give them a weeks training and let them loose. This was to avoid experienced operators who might know how to cut certain corners etc. On top of that they would allow ingoing tenants to invest their own life savings on the pub or a loan, payable with inflated beer prices.
The two pubs near me that have closed down have seen 4x bankrupted tenants, the saddest one being a young couple & kid who had to move into emergency housing having put all their money into tarting up a pub owned by a large pubco. Both of those pubs would be open still if they paid the same beer prices as myself.
Sorry, a long winded response but it gets my goat!


This has been covered for years by Private Eye, together with repeated promises of politicians to do something (and largely failing to do so), and the appointment of someone with a financial interest in a firm selling advice to PubCos as the Pubs Code Adjudicator. Depressing reading.
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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 23:50 - Apr 5 with 1556 viewsSpruceMoose

10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 21:27 - Apr 5 by catch74

A lot of GK pubs are tenancy/leased, Wetherspoons are all managed.
Wetherspoons have huge purchasing power. It’s a bit like supermarkets v small village shops. On top of that Spoons is about selling large quantity at small margin. When I was training with a previous company we weee shown company figures, Spoons were making £45million in profit a year - this was equal to the profits from there fruit machines over the year, so fine margins!
Factors has nailed it earlier, GK, Punch, Enterprise etc are appalling. If I want to buy a barrel of GK IPA, which I don’t, I’d be able to get it for about £85, a GK tenant or tied leaseholder would have to pay about £150!!
To add to this, I’ve met someone who helped recruit new tenants for these companies, they tasked him with finding people with zero experience, would give them a weeks training and let them loose. This was to avoid experienced operators who might know how to cut certain corners etc. On top of that they would allow ingoing tenants to invest their own life savings on the pub or a loan, payable with inflated beer prices.
The two pubs near me that have closed down have seen 4x bankrupted tenants, the saddest one being a young couple & kid who had to move into emergency housing having put all their money into tarting up a pub owned by a large pubco. Both of those pubs would be open still if they paid the same beer prices as myself.
Sorry, a long winded response but it gets my goat!


I'm clueless about this stuff, but as you seem quite knowledge how to Adnams fit into this picture? Always like an Adnams pub so hopefully nobody is getting ripped off?

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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 23:56 - Apr 5 with 1548 viewscatch74

10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 23:50 - Apr 5 by SpruceMoose

I'm clueless about this stuff, but as you seem quite knowledge how to Adnams fit into this picture? Always like an Adnams pub so hopefully nobody is getting ripped off?


I don’t know enough about Adnams but would hope they’d be a bit less cutthroat than GK, less big national. (I’m down in Surrey and Greene King have a big presence down here.)
I think a lot of problems stem from the recession, imagine the value wiped off Punch/Enterprise/ GK estates. I think there’s an element of having to charge the rent & prices they do just to service their debt.

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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 00:08 - Apr 6 with 1522 viewsSpruceMoose

10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 23:56 - Apr 5 by catch74

I don’t know enough about Adnams but would hope they’d be a bit less cutthroat than GK, less big national. (I’m down in Surrey and Greene King have a big presence down here.)
I think a lot of problems stem from the recession, imagine the value wiped off Punch/Enterprise/ GK estates. I think there’s an element of having to charge the rent & prices they do just to service their debt.


Are there any GK beers which don't taste like wkj's ball wash water? I've never had one of so.

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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 00:23 - Apr 6 with 1507 viewscatch74

10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 00:08 - Apr 6 by SpruceMoose

Are there any GK beers which don't taste like wkj's ball wash water? I've never had one of so.


I used to love a few pints of the Abbott, although it made me fall over. Personally don’t think it’s the same beer now, fairly sure they reduced the abv from 5.2 to 5 at one point. One of the pleasures of going back to Suffolk is a decent pint of Adnams, I don’t have the same feeling for GK.

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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 00:33 - Apr 6 with 1489 viewsSpruceMoose

10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 00:23 - Apr 6 by catch74

I used to love a few pints of the Abbott, although it made me fall over. Personally don’t think it’s the same beer now, fairly sure they reduced the abv from 5.2 to 5 at one point. One of the pleasures of going back to Suffolk is a decent pint of Adnams, I don’t have the same feeling for GK.


It sure is. Funnily enough I'm at the airport now, looking forward to getting back home and sinking a couple of pints of Broadside.

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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 00:36 - Apr 6 with 1486 viewscatch74

10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 00:33 - Apr 6 by SpruceMoose

It sure is. Funnily enough I'm at the airport now, looking forward to getting back home and sinking a couple of pints of Broadside.


Nice, have one for me - got to wait until July for my next trip to the motherland.

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10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 00:47 - Apr 6 with 1469 viewsjeera

10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 21:27 - Apr 5 by catch74

A lot of GK pubs are tenancy/leased, Wetherspoons are all managed.
Wetherspoons have huge purchasing power. It’s a bit like supermarkets v small village shops. On top of that Spoons is about selling large quantity at small margin. When I was training with a previous company we weee shown company figures, Spoons were making £45million in profit a year - this was equal to the profits from there fruit machines over the year, so fine margins!
Factors has nailed it earlier, GK, Punch, Enterprise etc are appalling. If I want to buy a barrel of GK IPA, which I don’t, I’d be able to get it for about £85, a GK tenant or tied leaseholder would have to pay about £150!!
To add to this, I’ve met someone who helped recruit new tenants for these companies, they tasked him with finding people with zero experience, would give them a weeks training and let them loose. This was to avoid experienced operators who might know how to cut certain corners etc. On top of that they would allow ingoing tenants to invest their own life savings on the pub or a loan, payable with inflated beer prices.
The two pubs near me that have closed down have seen 4x bankrupted tenants, the saddest one being a young couple & kid who had to move into emergency housing having put all their money into tarting up a pub owned by a large pubco. Both of those pubs would be open still if they paid the same beer prices as myself.
Sorry, a long winded response but it gets my goat!


Not at all. I understand how firms like GK treat their tenants and I'm aware of the Greedy King labelling. We've chatted about it on here several times and I didn't think it worth going over again.

I did say "Impossible running costs" in my first post which I felt covered it.

The harder the publicans work, the more the companies have their hands out. They drive them and drive them until there's nothing left.

Out of town pubs have little chance it seems unless they can be bought and run as independents. As you say it's insane how their own tenants are priced out of the market against their competitors, but the big boys will have done their homework and know exactly where they can turn a buck, which is all that matters to them.

The rest, well yes, quite.

Well it looks like a duck, it sounds like a duck. Nope, dunno what it is.
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