| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK 13:09 - Apr 5 with 6836 views | mos |
"More than 11,000 pubs have closed in the UK in the past decade, according to the latest data from the Office for National Statistics — a fall of almost a quarter."
Three pubs close everyday in the UK. Shocking.
*During the years 2008-2018 that is*
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| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 00:53 - Apr 6 with 2183 views | SpruceMoose |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 00:36 - Apr 6 by catch74 |
Nice, have one for me - got to wait until July for my next trip to the motherland. |
If anyone can arrange Adnams distribution to the States I'd put them in my will. |  |
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 01:01 - Apr 6 with 2185 views | catch74 |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 00:47 - Apr 6 by jeera |
Not at all. I understand how firms like GK treat their tenants and I'm aware of the Greedy King labelling. We've chatted about it on here several times and I didn't think it worth going over again.
I did say "Impossible running costs" in my first post which I felt covered it.
The harder the publicans work, the more the companies have their hands out. They drive them and drive them until there's nothing left.
Out of town pubs have little chance it seems unless they can be bought and run as independents. As you say it's insane how their own tenants are priced out of the market against their competitors, but the big boys will have done their homework and know exactly where they can turn a buck, which is all that matters to them.
The rest, well yes, quite. |
How are you Jeera, hope you’re good. Still keeping my monkey image for you! |  |
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| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 01:25 - Apr 6 with 2185 views | XYZ |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 17:25 - Apr 5 by clive_baker |
Partly sad, but also the case that some of those lost pubs were hell holes. When I moved to my area of South London 5 years ago there were about 7 pubs within a 10 minute walk of mine, and now there are 4. The 4 remaining though are all nice, good food, good atmosphere etc and offer something different to each other - whether you want sport, or a bit of a 'nicer' meal etc. The ones that have bitten the dust were all nasty, dated places that you wouldn't really want to drink in. So I see it as a bit of a cleanse, that said I know of some formerly nice village pubs that have closed which is a shame. A few around Suffolk spring to mind. |
Where do the poor people in your area get a chance to relax and chew the fat? |  | | |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 06:59 - Apr 6 with 2147 views | Tampa_Florida_Blue |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 20:58 - Apr 5 by jeera |
Oh I see, sorry.
Then I suppose GK don't view WS as direct competition across the board and are happy to accept WS serve a demographic they do not actively target themselves anymore.
Many of the old GK pubs have been given a face-lift haven't they, and gone down a different route.
But either way, they may as well be selling GK's product for them rather than someone else's. |
Who in the GK pubs set the price of the beer? GK or the person running the pub. Just trying to understand if it’s GK killing there own pubs or theperson running there pub? |  | | |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 07:06 - Apr 6 with 2144 views | brogansnose |
Probably not possible but, reduce VAT on pub prices and stick it on shop bought alcohol. However, this is not purely a British problem, its also happening on the continent.
Either way, use 'em or lose 'em. |  | | |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 09:45 - Apr 6 with 2115 views | catch74 |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 06:59 - Apr 6 by Tampa_Florida_Blue |
Who in the GK pubs set the price of the beer? GK or the person running the pub. Just trying to understand if it’s GK killing there own pubs or theperson running there pub? |
The owner has to buy the beer from gk at a set price. Another reason why they love inexperienced tenants who will blindly sign up to the prices. | |
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| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 09:52 - Apr 6 with 2112 views | catch74 |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 07:06 - Apr 6 by brogansnose |
Probably not possible but, reduce VAT on pub prices and stick it on shop bought alcohol. However, this is not purely a British problem, its also happening on the continent.
Either way, use 'em or lose 'em. |
That’s another valid point - supermarkets don’t have to pay VAT on food, pubs do.
They pay VAT on alcohol but can claim it back if they sell at cost or below (which they do- as a loss leader.) | |
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| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 10:47 - Apr 6 with 2091 views | Leaky |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 21:27 - Apr 5 by catch74 |
A lot of GK pubs are tenancy/leased, Wetherspoons are all managed.
Wetherspoons have huge purchasing power. It’s a bit like supermarkets v small village shops. On top of that Spoons is about selling large quantity at small margin. When I was training with a previous company we weee shown company figures, Spoons were making £45million in profit a year - this was equal to the profits from there fruit machines over the year, so fine margins!
Factors has nailed it earlier, GK, Punch, Enterprise etc are appalling. If I want to buy a barrel of GK IPA, which I don’t, I’d be able to get it for about £85, a GK tenant or tied leaseholder would have to pay about £150!!
To add to this, I’ve met someone who helped recruit new tenants for these companies, they tasked him with finding people with zero experience, would give them a weeks training and let them loose. This was to avoid experienced operators who might know how to cut certain corners etc. On top of that they would allow ingoing tenants to invest their own life savings on the pub or a loan, payable with inflated beer prices.
The two pubs near me that have closed down have seen 4x bankrupted tenants, the saddest one being a young couple & kid who had to move into emergency housing having put all their money into tarting up a pub owned by a large pubco. Both of those pubs would be open still if they paid the same beer prices as myself.
Sorry, a long winded response but it gets my goat! |
Plus tenants usually have to pay maintenance costs. Which is usually why the toilets are so grim. A lovely old pub in the next village to me had to close as the roof needed repairing at a cost of £50k. |  | | |
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| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 10:52 - Apr 6 with 2084 views | Leaky |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 00:23 - Apr 6 by catch74 |
I used to love a few pints of the Abbott, although it made me fall over. Personally don’t think it’s the same beer now, fairly sure they reduced the abv from 5.2 to 5 at one point. One of the pleasures of going back to Suffolk is a decent pint of Adnams, I don’t have the same feeling for GK. |
Abbot used to be around 6% years ago.
I think you will find Abbot Reserve is the original brew, however only ever seen it as a bottled ale | | | |
| Use em or lose em indeed on 10:55 - Apr 6 with 2082 views | Dyland |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 07:06 - Apr 6 by brogansnose |
Probably not possible but, reduce VAT on pub prices and stick it on shop bought alcohol. However, this is not purely a British problem, its also happening on the continent.
Either way, use 'em or lose 'em. |
Read a recentish story about bringing back the fire damages boozer in Wickham Market (can't remember name) and overwhelming majority of residents supporting it.
I may be wrong but does Wickham Market even have a boozer? Pretty ridiculous if not. |  |
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| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 11:02 - Apr 6 with 2073 views | stonojnr |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 10:52 - Apr 6 by Leaky |
Abbot used to be around 6% years ago.
I think you will find Abbot Reserve is the original brew, however only ever seen it as a bottled ale |
Abbot Reserve is assumed to be the original brew as it tastes most like how Abbot used to but GK have never confirmed it.
But its been on at the Dove Street Inn pretty frequently past few months on cask, I keep avoiding trying it as a beer as Im not always in the mood for a 6% beer :)
but looks like they have a cask still on site, so keep checking the website or their twitter feed for it to come on | | | |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 11:17 - Apr 6 with 2071 views | hampstead_blue |
One of the great upsides is that there are some amazing properties available for development into lovely homes. |  |
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Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
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| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 11:21 - Apr 6 with 2068 views | stonojnr |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 00:08 - Apr 6 by SpruceMoose |
Are there any GK beers which don't taste like wkj's ball wash water? I've never had one of so. |
all of them do, the beer is actually very good, IPA is one of the UKs best examples of a Burton Ale style, not just my words, but words of one of the leading beer writers in the UK Roger Protz.
you just have to find the beer in a decent run pub, which unfortunately excludes most GK estate pubs thesedays because the pub estate side ruins the business model of caring enough about the beer to keep the beer lines clear,to have the cask turnover down to within 3-4 days, necessary to keep the beer in form. And you go in these GK pubs and just observe what everyone is drinking, its lager lager lager, all the time, the person coming in for the cask, probably the 1st and only time the beer has been poured that day, its sat in the pipes all night, they dont even tell the staff to pull run off through to get rid of the dreck, even if they wanted to they cant because the beer flow meter records every drop of beer and they are pushed to sell in the high 90s percent of a barrel, or they have to repay the difference back to GK in loss, which is why even when the beer is less than ideal, they keep it on.
still say the Nutshell in bury does the best pint of GK beer you can get, Rose & Crown does too. Back in the day GK execs always used to take guests from portman road to the Brewers Arms, and actually had a decent pint of IPA in the Anchor inn Stratford st mary the other week. | | | |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 11:30 - Apr 6 with 2053 views | catch74 |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 10:52 - Apr 6 by Leaky |
Abbot used to be around 6% years ago.
I think you will find Abbot Reserve is the original brew, however only ever seen it as a bottled ale |
That explains why I used to fall over. | |
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| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 11:38 - Apr 6 with 2050 views | stonojnr |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 23:50 - Apr 5 by SpruceMoose |
I'm clueless about this stuff, but as you seem quite knowledge how to Adnams fit into this picture? Always like an Adnams pub so hopefully nobody is getting ripped off? |
I dont believe Adnams, yet, go in to the whole remote beer flow monitoring stuff that the likes of GK and other pubcos do, which is really grim stuff. but they do push just as hard as the others to make profits out of them IMO, and the tied pub will still be forced to buy beer, wine,spirits and now cider at their prices, and you will be told which beers you must sell at all times that will be part of the agreement, and if your profits go up, surprise surprise when the tenency agreement is up for renewal the amount Adnams want goes up too.
again maybe not as bad as other pubcos or GK who I know once tried to put an agreement up by nearly 1million pounds over the course of a deal, unsurprisingly that was turned down and the landlord left and setup a successful freehouse elsewhere, but its there as another cost consideration, get to good at what you are doing and you end up paying them more.
and I dont think its a coincidence at all alot of Adnams tied pubs, major on the food side of the business now, yes you could argue a wet led pub in rural areas is a quick way to go out of business now, but that they all lead on the £10 gastro burger style menu options, I think is very telling, as its probably easier to make a profit on the food, and then the drinks like in a restaurant flow through as a consequence. | | | |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 15:19 - Apr 6 with 2019 views | chicoazul |
It is not necessarily true that some of these pubs are failed pubs. In inner cities and desirable areas they are often thriving but sadly are worth much more as developed properties than pubs. Some are genuine parts of the community that do well and add a lot of value but when a developer waves a £3m cheque under your nose its hard to say no I imagine. Meaning working class people have another place they enjoy taken away from them and kids/young people who effectively learn to be adults in those places dont have that luxury anymore either. |  |
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| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 15:29 - Apr 6 with 2011 views | footers |
It's all you foppy fruits and fairies not doing your share of the heavy lifting, bunch of gym-bunny mirror-gazing freaks.
Get down your boozer, numbskulls :) |  |
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| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 06:09 - Apr 7 with 1951 views | textbackup |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 11:17 - Apr 6 by hampstead_blue |
One of the great upsides is that there are some amazing properties available for development into lovely homes. |
who would do such a thing  |  |
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| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 06:21 - Apr 7 with 1947 views | Benters2 |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 17:37 - Apr 5 by gtsb |
Can someone explain to me how a pint in a Wetherspoons can be at least a pound cheaper and usually more than the same pint in another pub. For instance how can a pint of horrible Greene King ipa be two quid in a Spoons but three quid in a Greene King pub. |
The pubs I use in Colchester a pint of Ghostship costs £3.80 go to the Playhouse which is a spoons and it can be £2.25 to £2.50..hell I’ve even seen them knocking ales out for under £2 a pint.
If they are having one of their Ale and Cider festivals all beers are £2.25 which is happy. | | | |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 06:23 - Apr 7 with 1946 views | Benters2 |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 19:19 - Apr 5 by Lord_Lucan |
I think it’s very sad.
Some people like going in pubs that don’t serve food and don’t have families - I know I do.
I don’t like a pub unless you have got a fair chance of being shot. |
Yeah bolox to the food and sprogs. | | | |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 07:26 - Apr 7 with 1930 views | TractorWood |
It's sad but it's also due to a load of social and economic factors. Property prices have largely increased perpetually in the last 30 years, making exits far easier and lucrative. There seems to have been a generational shift from people drinking in pubs to people either drinking at home or with meals out.
People under 30 seem to generally drink less than previous generations as they are more focussed on fitness, education and experiences than just getting boozy.
The majority of pubs that remain and thrive like say the Beyton Bear are ones that are well situated with villages around lacking similar competition, do decent food, have a good range of well kept beer and are priced reasonably. The GK model is bad and doomed to fail imo. |  |
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| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 09:08 - Apr 7 with 1916 views | catch74 |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 15:19 - Apr 6 by chicoazul |
It is not necessarily true that some of these pubs are failed pubs. In inner cities and desirable areas they are often thriving but sadly are worth much more as developed properties than pubs. Some are genuine parts of the community that do well and add a lot of value but when a developer waves a £3m cheque under your nose its hard to say no I imagine. Meaning working class people have another place they enjoy taken away from them and kids/young people who effectively learn to be adults in those places dont have that luxury anymore either. |
Sometimes that tactic can go wrong though;
https://www.kilburntimes.co.uk/news/work-begins-on-rebuilding-carlton-vale-pub-b | |
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| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 10:45 - Apr 7 with 1895 views | SonOfSpock |
On a positive note, I went to a village pub yesterday with the other Spock's after an easter bunny hunt.
The pub was purchased by shares for the community and so far so good.also has a good reputation for food with reasonable price.
It can be done,it just needs some dedication and communitarian spirit. |  | | |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 14:42 - Apr 7 with 1876 views | peterleeblue |
| 10 years, 11'000 pubs have closed in the UK on 07:26 - Apr 7 by TractorWood |
It's sad but it's also due to a load of social and economic factors. Property prices have largely increased perpetually in the last 30 years, making exits far easier and lucrative. There seems to have been a generational shift from people drinking in pubs to people either drinking at home or with meals out.
People under 30 seem to generally drink less than previous generations as they are more focussed on fitness, education and experiences than just getting boozy.
The majority of pubs that remain and thrive like say the Beyton Bear are ones that are well situated with villages around lacking similar competition, do decent food, have a good range of well kept beer and are priced reasonably. The GK model is bad and doomed to fail imo. |
GK like Marston's are more interested in the Managed House Family Food model than their Leased and tenanted estate.
I work for a reasonable sized pub co (Not Punch or EI). I imagine the GK sites that cant be made managed will be sold to pub co's like ours. Some will be turned round and made viable and in turn we would sell on.
I guess while all this goes on the pub trades and some tenants do lose money. We do our very best to support. For example I have a site where the expectation of one of their business partners was higher than she actually was able or could be bothered to deliver - In the end the pub was a roof over her head. We invested heavily with these tenants and yet have not been able to trade above break even. For two reasons 1. Cost Control and 2. The inability to work on the business and drive turnover effectively preferring to simply open the doors and hope for the best. The wronged partner in this absolutely does not hold her landlord responsible for the situation.
There are a number of tenants that do not work on their business, invest in low cost high impact features such as good marketing / hanging baskets / quality chalk boarding etc. The business is harder than ever to make work but there is a significant amount of self help the tenants of these pubs can inject into their daily operations.
It is not always the BIG BAD PUB CO's fault! |  | | |
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