| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 18:07 - Apr 7 with 3402 views | Darth_Koont |
Very good.
I disagree with Oborne fundamentally on a lot of political things and how we got into situations, but he's always very accurate and honest about describing where we are. |  |
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| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 19:45 - Apr 7 with 3328 views | SomethingBlue |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 18:07 - Apr 7 by Darth_Koont |
Very good.
I disagree with Oborne fundamentally on a lot of political things and how we got into situations, but he's always very accurate and honest about describing where we are. |
Yes — I am no admirer of Oborne but it is quite important that he, in particular, has done this. He's not without influence so let's see who else it emboldens to be a little bit more honest. It's high time. |  |
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| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 19:47 - Apr 7 with 3325 views | Trequartista |
I remember Oborne on Newsnight in the Paxman days i think calling someone "an idiot from Brussels" so for someone as scathing as he is about Europe that is quite a significant analysis. |  |
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| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 19:58 - Apr 7 with 3301 views | BloomBlue |
What a load of rubbish, the car companies he mentions leaving the UK has nothing to do with Brexit, the whole industry is changing because of the move to electric, those companies would be leaving even without Brexit, just more lies from project remain fear. |  | | |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 20:14 - Apr 7 with 3259 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 19:58 - Apr 7 by BloomBlue |
What a load of rubbish, the car companies he mentions leaving the UK has nothing to do with Brexit, the whole industry is changing because of the move to electric, those companies would be leaving even without Brexit, just more lies from project remain fear. |
The car stuff was only part of it though. What he doesn't say is how to put the genie back in thd bottle. His concerns would also not be realised under a soft Brexit, whereby only the political union is removed. |  |
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| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 21:13 - Apr 7 with 3193 views | WeWereZombies |
That is a sobering read, even though I was aware of those drawbacks with Brexit. He paints a more sombre picture than I had envisaged, given his background it makes for a worrying future. The best thing I have read by anyone who voted Leave. |  |
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| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 21:19 - Apr 7 with 3186 views | Darth_Koont |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 19:58 - Apr 7 by BloomBlue |
What a load of rubbish, the car companies he mentions leaving the UK has nothing to do with Brexit, the whole industry is changing because of the move to electric, those companies would be leaving even without Brexit, just more lies from project remain fear. |
But Brexit is still a negative factor across the board (especially with the supply chain pressure on car companies in particular) and as he points out it's always welcome for these companies to take the political step of not blaming it on Brexit.
We can see the underlying truth in the overall number of companies moving operations and the shortfall in investment. | |
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| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 21:25 - Apr 7 with 3180 views | m14_blue |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 19:58 - Apr 7 by BloomBlue |
What a load of rubbish, the car companies he mentions leaving the UK has nothing to do with Brexit, the whole industry is changing because of the move to electric, those companies would be leaving even without Brexit, just more lies from project remain fear. |
And what did you think of the other 98% of the article.
I’m sadly unsurprised at how many people would rather stick dogmatically to increasingly more bizarre conspiracy theories and arguments rather than just admit they were wrong.
They would rather damage their children’s futures than admit they were wrong.
It’s shameful | | | |
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| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 21:49 - Apr 7 with 3145 views | No9 |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 19:58 - Apr 7 by BloomBlue |
What a load of rubbish, the car companies he mentions leaving the UK has nothing to do with Brexit, the whole industry is changing because of the move to electric, those companies would be leaving even without Brexit, just more lies from project remain fear. |
You like many others with your head up your ar*e only think of the car industry-
what about the rest of the things you need the EU for & which you can't replace overnight? | | | |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 22:20 - Apr 7 with 3103 views | WeWereZombies |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 19:58 - Apr 7 by BloomBlue |
What a load of rubbish, the car companies he mentions leaving the UK has nothing to do with Brexit, the whole industry is changing because of the move to electric, those companies would be leaving even without Brexit, just more lies from project remain fear. |
Do you really think Peter Oborne is part of a Project Fear? And that the entire article is rubbish?
Industry and business changes all the time, apart from car manufacturing there is the pressure on financial services to bring down costs and that fuels moves to Singapore and Shanghai but we do not have to provide extra impetus. And ask yourself that if electric cars are the future why are the multinationals not planning to make them here? | |
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| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 22:26 - Apr 7 with 3080 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
A good article.
If Brexit is to happen, we need to take stock, come up with a proper plan that will satisfy those who want it and won't leave us bankrupt and at threat of terror. Only once we have a clear idea of those things should we have enacted Article 50.
Instead, we enacted off the back of the referendum result and then worried about how to sort it out. May was so sure she could dictate it and come up with a ridiculous compromise that would satisfy everyone she didn't even think about any sensible options.
I fear we will not revoke Article 50 but it has to be the only sensible course even if we take time and decide to enact it in the future. |  |
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| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 22:26 - Apr 7 with 3082 views | SomethingBlue |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 19:58 - Apr 7 by BloomBlue |
What a load of rubbish, the car companies he mentions leaving the UK has nothing to do with Brexit, the whole industry is changing because of the move to electric, those companies would be leaving even without Brexit, just more lies from project remain fear. |
What a way to undermine your ramblings. Oborne might be many things, but "project fear" he is not and nor is he especially pliable. He has just thought long and hard, and been honest with himself - it's very clear. | |
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| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 22:46 - Apr 7 with 3053 views | WeWereZombies |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 22:26 - Apr 7 by SomethingBlue |
What a way to undermine your ramblings. Oborne might be many things, but "project fear" he is not and nor is he especially pliable. He has just thought long and hard, and been honest with himself - it's very clear. |
I think the other thing to be taken from this article is that even if Article 50 is revoked there should be no crowing by those who want to remain in the European Union. The United KIngdom needs to have the rifts caused by Brexit healed and petty point scoring is woeful at present. | |
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| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 02:27 - Apr 8 with 2992 views | IPS_wich |
Wow...it's almost as if all of those Project Fear experts who predicted this might have known what they were talking about!!
At least all of the Project Unicorn experts were right and an extra $250m+ a week is going to be pumped into the NHS...oh wait the UK is liable for a $35bn divorce bill. | | | |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 08:18 - Apr 8 with 2896 views | Oldsmoker |
I understand his position - that of someone who sees that staying in the EU is the lesser of two evils. The EU, with all its faults, is better than what Brexit currently stands for.
There was one throwaway statement that left me puzzled.
"Many who voted Leave have a deep — perhaps the deepest — understanding of the communities where they live; and in some of these, everyday life has been spoiled for many by policies imposed on them by a pro-European Westminster elite: policies they never voted for."
What policies were those then? He didn't give any examples. Is he talking about immigration? Those communities that don't like black people should surely have realised by now that these peoples oranges (sorry, origins) are not in the EU but the asian sub-continent and that immigration from those countries isn't going to stop after Brexit. |  |
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| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 08:18 - Apr 8 with 2893 views | WeWereZombies |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 02:27 - Apr 8 by IPS_wich |
Wow...it's almost as if all of those Project Fear experts who predicted this might have known what they were talking about!!
At least all of the Project Unicorn experts were right and an extra $250m+ a week is going to be pumped into the NHS...oh wait the UK is liable for a $35bn divorce bill. |
Not really replying to you, just bumping this excellent link so that those who missed it yesterday get a chance to read the article. A bit long but worth it. | |
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| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 08:45 - Apr 8 with 2877 views | No9 |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 08:18 - Apr 8 by Oldsmoker |
I understand his position - that of someone who sees that staying in the EU is the lesser of two evils. The EU, with all its faults, is better than what Brexit currently stands for.
There was one throwaway statement that left me puzzled.
"Many who voted Leave have a deep — perhaps the deepest — understanding of the communities where they live; and in some of these, everyday life has been spoiled for many by policies imposed on them by a pro-European Westminster elite: policies they never voted for."
What policies were those then? He didn't give any examples. Is he talking about immigration? Those communities that don't like black people should surely have realised by now that these peoples oranges (sorry, origins) are not in the EU but the asian sub-continent and that immigration from those countries isn't going to stop after Brexit. |
The policies he mentioned relative to those who voted to leave are not policies dicated by the EU they are Westminster policies that were brought in after 2010 when the government turned it's back on a regnerating and growing, albiet slowly, economy and inflicted misery on millions, that has n't ended asd the charities continue to show.
That is one of the down sides of the article - he lets Cameron Osborn off too lightly. | | | |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 08:47 - Apr 8 with 2872 views | No9 |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 20:14 - Apr 7 by BanksterDebtSlave |
The car stuff was only part of it though. What he doesn't say is how to put the genie back in thd bottle. His concerns would also not be realised under a soft Brexit, whereby only the political union is removed. |
Almost unoticed manufacturing has slipped into recession, industrial investment is down 4 1/4's in a row + the services industry has declined and exports to the rest of the world (non EU) are shrinking.
& it is not juts the EU slipping into recession territory | | | |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 09:06 - Apr 8 with 2857 views | Steve_M |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 08:18 - Apr 8 by Oldsmoker |
I understand his position - that of someone who sees that staying in the EU is the lesser of two evils. The EU, with all its faults, is better than what Brexit currently stands for.
There was one throwaway statement that left me puzzled.
"Many who voted Leave have a deep — perhaps the deepest — understanding of the communities where they live; and in some of these, everyday life has been spoiled for many by policies imposed on them by a pro-European Westminster elite: policies they never voted for."
What policies were those then? He didn't give any examples. Is he talking about immigration? Those communities that don't like black people should surely have realised by now that these peoples oranges (sorry, origins) are not in the EU but the asian sub-continent and that immigration from those countries isn't going to stop after Brexit. |
I think even in that piece Oborne is disingenuous in his description of the EU, there is very little legislation that the UK doesn't support and much of it is gold-plated here. That is distinct from the chance to kick 'the establishment' that the referendum provided.
I could take issue with Oborne's pro-Brexit stance for years, and his role in peddling falsehoods but the more important point is his public refutation of Brexit as it currently is. |  |
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| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 09:46 - Apr 8 with 2826 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 19:58 - Apr 7 by BloomBlue |
What a load of rubbish, the car companies he mentions leaving the UK has nothing to do with Brexit, the whole industry is changing because of the move to electric, those companies would be leaving even without Brexit, just more lies from project remain fear. |
Not true (as usual). Honda were in the process of upgrading part of their Swindon plant to build electric vehicles. Swindon would have been part of the switch to electric, so it's clearly wrong to say Swindon closing is because of the switch to electric.
I'd suggest that because this plan was shelved when it looked like no deal was in the offing, there's a strong likelihood that the risks around a no deal Brexit was a factor. You'd have to be privy to their top level meetings to know the truth, but that's certainly the way it looks. BMW have taken a similar stance around electric too. |  |
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| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 09:54 - Apr 8 with 2807 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 08:18 - Apr 8 by Oldsmoker |
I understand his position - that of someone who sees that staying in the EU is the lesser of two evils. The EU, with all its faults, is better than what Brexit currently stands for.
There was one throwaway statement that left me puzzled.
"Many who voted Leave have a deep — perhaps the deepest — understanding of the communities where they live; and in some of these, everyday life has been spoiled for many by policies imposed on them by a pro-European Westminster elite: policies they never voted for."
What policies were those then? He didn't give any examples. Is he talking about immigration? Those communities that don't like black people should surely have realised by now that these peoples oranges (sorry, origins) are not in the EU but the asian sub-continent and that immigration from those countries isn't going to stop after Brexit. |
I read it as a dig at immigration (he's got form). Which goes against the stronger leave vote tending to be in the areas with lowest immigration.
I haven't got a lot of respect for the guy. His peddling of falsehoods is part of the reason we've got a divided society that demonises foreigners; begrudgingly admitting he was wrong about a hard Brexit doesn't go anywhere near far enough in atoning for his role in all of this.
Having said that, hard Brexiteers who've blindly followed the soundbites and front page EU/immigrant bashing rhetoric of the press would do well to read this piece and have a little think. | |
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| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 10:02 - Apr 8 with 2767 views | BloomBlue |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 09:46 - Apr 8 by Swansea_Blue |
Not true (as usual). Honda were in the process of upgrading part of their Swindon plant to build electric vehicles. Swindon would have been part of the switch to electric, so it's clearly wrong to say Swindon closing is because of the switch to electric.
I'd suggest that because this plan was shelved when it looked like no deal was in the offing, there's a strong likelihood that the risks around a no deal Brexit was a factor. You'd have to be privy to their top level meetings to know the truth, but that's certainly the way it looks. BMW have taken a similar stance around electric too. |
Wrong again. Honda even said it had nothing to do with Brexit if it was why didn't they move the factory to another European country?
You don't need the same volume of resources to produce electric cars, all car manufacturers will be reducing headcount and mostly moving that back to homeland, which is why Honda is moving everything back to Japan. | | | |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 10:11 - Apr 8 with 2737 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 10:02 - Apr 8 by BloomBlue |
Wrong again. Honda even said it had nothing to do with Brexit if it was why didn't they move the factory to another European country?
You don't need the same volume of resources to produce electric cars, all car manufacturers will be reducing headcount and mostly moving that back to homeland, which is why Honda is moving everything back to Japan. |
Read what I'm saying. I'm saying that despite the official press releases the timing is somewhat suspicious. They were planning to make electric vehicles - that's a matter of fact on the record. They even had equipment in transit when they pulled the plug (pun intended). Brexit is undoubtedly involved in the decisions that all these companies are making. But of course it's only one factor; nobody has said it the only factor. | |
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| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 10:48 - Apr 8 with 2709 views | No9 |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 10:02 - Apr 8 by BloomBlue |
Wrong again. Honda even said it had nothing to do with Brexit if it was why didn't they move the factory to another European country?
You don't need the same volume of resources to produce electric cars, all car manufacturers will be reducing headcount and mostly moving that back to homeland, which is why Honda is moving everything back to Japan. |
Your knowledge is really appalling isn't it?
Why did Honda come to the UK in the first place? | | | |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 10:52 - Apr 8 with 2705 views | No9 |
| Peter Oborne on the state of Brexit is something everyone interested should read on 09:46 - Apr 8 by Swansea_Blue |
Not true (as usual). Honda were in the process of upgrading part of their Swindon plant to build electric vehicles. Swindon would have been part of the switch to electric, so it's clearly wrong to say Swindon closing is because of the switch to electric.
I'd suggest that because this plan was shelved when it looked like no deal was in the offing, there's a strong likelihood that the risks around a no deal Brexit was a factor. You'd have to be privy to their top level meetings to know the truth, but that's certainly the way it looks. BMW have taken a similar stance around electric too. |
While the Japanese warned the UK government that leaving the EU would have negative consequences they have now concluded a comprehensive trade deal with the EU that the UK will have difficulties in matching & that only raises questions about other Japanese companies like Panasonic & Sony will move to the EU | | | |
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