| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 20:55 - Apr 19 with 3872 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 20:44 - Apr 19 by BackToRussia |
I take it we'll see you outside Sainsbury's tomorrow then? |
I love Sainsbury’s BTR, it keeps the riff raff out of Waitrose.
I think I’m being unnecessarily killed here. I don’t claim there isn’t a problem, I just don’t appreciate the way it’s being done. I also double down on the w4nker thing.
I take it from you as I know you are a true vegetable growing man but you are a minority.
There are so many people on the planet now that it impossible to step back and stop driving and flying. What we need is new thinking and new solutions.
Edit. From my earlier post. It wasn’t 500 bus journeys it was 500,000! [Post edited 19 Apr 2019 21:09]
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 20:58 - Apr 19 with 3839 views | jjblue84 |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 20:51 - Apr 19 by J2BLUE |
You really need to watch last night's programme. It answers all of your ridiculous points.
For once, educate yourself. |
So glad you have nothing to counter! |  | | |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 21:10 - Apr 19 with 3835 views | WeWereZombies |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 20:43 - Apr 19 by jjblue84 |
Even if we could change the climate we can’t afford not to burn fossil fuels |
Majority of my electricity now comes from renewables, am thinking about if I could get through next winter by burning wood from my garden (already able to get by until then using the woodburner instead of the oil fired central heating) and I hope that my next car can be an electric one (again using electricity mainly from renewables). It can be done and is getting easier, do not be such a defeatist. |  |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 21:11 - Apr 19 with 3835 views | BackToRussia |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 20:55 - Apr 19 by Lord_Lucan |
I love Sainsbury’s BTR, it keeps the riff raff out of Waitrose.
I think I’m being unnecessarily killed here. I don’t claim there isn’t a problem, I just don’t appreciate the way it’s being done. I also double down on the w4nker thing.
I take it from you as I know you are a true vegetable growing man but you are a minority.
There are so many people on the planet now that it impossible to step back and stop driving and flying. What we need is new thinking and new solutions.
Edit. From my earlier post. It wasn’t 500 bus journeys it was 500,000! [Post edited 19 Apr 2019 21:09]
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At this stage it's surely "Whatever it takes", these people are the only people in the entirety of the UK actually getting off their arses and trying to do something about it. It just seems arse about face to even question how they're going about it.
Unfortunately you have a faith in human ingenuity, but it has to contest with business interest which wants to plough head long into the inferno as long as a barrel of oil stays at whatever $ a barrel. It is past the stage where we can sit tight and wait for the smart science folk to save us. |  |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 21:20 - Apr 19 with 3816 views | Lord_Lucan |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 21:11 - Apr 19 by BackToRussia |
At this stage it's surely "Whatever it takes", these people are the only people in the entirety of the UK actually getting off their arses and trying to do something about it. It just seems arse about face to even question how they're going about it.
Unfortunately you have a faith in human ingenuity, but it has to contest with business interest which wants to plough head long into the inferno as long as a barrel of oil stays at whatever $ a barrel. It is past the stage where we can sit tight and wait for the smart science folk to save us. |
They certainly aren’t the only people in the UK doing anything about it. I know it’s popular thinking that government are doing nothing but we are doing quite well - compared to others.
We will have to disagree about all this hoo ha, I believe the answer will be found going forward rather than backward. | |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 21:23 - Apr 19 with 3809 views | Ryorry |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 20:19 - Apr 19 by footers |
Many of you are personalising a structural debate. You look at the individuals and say 'Why aren't you doing X, Y and Z' when what they are protesting for are structural changes.
It won't make the slightest bit of difference to the environment whether Swampy got there by car or by foot. It doesn't matter.
These people are pointing to a wider point which should happen at government/international level. They are trying to force that conversation.
It is practically impossible to live carbon-free in this world so bringing the point back to the individual is pointless. |
You and a few others simply aren't getting it.
We all want to save poor planet Earth, its humans, animals, vegetation, climate, water and other eco systems. This means getting pretty much everybody on side not only to do their own personal bit by reducing their own carbon footprint, but also to vote in politicians who will implement policies supporting renewables, who will not implement policies favouring gas and oil companies because they have shares in them - etc etc etc.
The way to do that is not to engage in fuzzy, well-meaning demos, which only have the net result of 1) preaching to and pleasing the already converted, which is pointless 2) alienating many of the not-already converted who could justifiably point to the illogicality of the protest, given, eg, the examples of the celebs jetted in, the mountain of plastic bottles left behind etc etc 3) alienating still more by the sheer disruption - medical appointments & job interviews missed, key workers arriving late, etc etc.
As for "it's got everyone talking" - are you (and some others on the thread) seriously saying there were people before these protests who were actually unaware of the crisis humanity is facing re climate change?! And if by some miniscule chance there were, a programme like Attenborough's on BBC1 last night will have done a million times more to get the message across, not just because of the prime-time exposure, but because he & the programme-makers (it was a BBC+OU collaboration) understand the psychology of persuasion - engage with people, gentle them into wanting to do their bit - don't delay them from keeping crucial events in their lives and thereafter expect them to be sympathetic to the cause - human nature just doesn't work like that!
Said this so many times now. |  |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 21:28 - Apr 19 with 3799 views | Ryorry |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 21:11 - Apr 19 by BackToRussia |
At this stage it's surely "Whatever it takes", these people are the only people in the entirety of the UK actually getting off their arses and trying to do something about it. It just seems arse about face to even question how they're going about it.
Unfortunately you have a faith in human ingenuity, but it has to contest with business interest which wants to plough head long into the inferno as long as a barrel of oil stays at whatever $ a barrel. It is past the stage where we can sit tight and wait for the smart science folk to save us. |
"these people are the only people in the entirety of the UK actually getting off their arses"
No they are not - millions of people across most countries of the world, including the UK, have been doing it for decades. 5 decades in my case. Rachel Carson pretty much kicked it all off in 1962 with 'Silent Spring'. | |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 21:43 - Apr 19 with 3756 views | jjblue84 |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 21:10 - Apr 19 by WeWereZombies |
Majority of my electricity now comes from renewables, am thinking about if I could get through next winter by burning wood from my garden (already able to get by until then using the woodburner instead of the oil fired central heating) and I hope that my next car can be an electric one (again using electricity mainly from renewables). It can be done and is getting easier, do not be such a defeatist. |
You don’t on a cold still night, look forward to lights out everyone! | | | |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 21:43 - Apr 19 with 3776 views | footers |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 21:23 - Apr 19 by Ryorry |
You and a few others simply aren't getting it.
We all want to save poor planet Earth, its humans, animals, vegetation, climate, water and other eco systems. This means getting pretty much everybody on side not only to do their own personal bit by reducing their own carbon footprint, but also to vote in politicians who will implement policies supporting renewables, who will not implement policies favouring gas and oil companies because they have shares in them - etc etc etc.
The way to do that is not to engage in fuzzy, well-meaning demos, which only have the net result of 1) preaching to and pleasing the already converted, which is pointless 2) alienating many of the not-already converted who could justifiably point to the illogicality of the protest, given, eg, the examples of the celebs jetted in, the mountain of plastic bottles left behind etc etc 3) alienating still more by the sheer disruption - medical appointments & job interviews missed, key workers arriving late, etc etc.
As for "it's got everyone talking" - are you (and some others on the thread) seriously saying there were people before these protests who were actually unaware of the crisis humanity is facing re climate change?! And if by some miniscule chance there were, a programme like Attenborough's on BBC1 last night will have done a million times more to get the message across, not just because of the prime-time exposure, but because he & the programme-makers (it was a BBC+OU collaboration) understand the psychology of persuasion - engage with people, gentle them into wanting to do their bit - don't delay them from keeping crucial events in their lives and thereafter expect them to be sympathetic to the cause - human nature just doesn't work like that!
Said this so many times now. |
Fcking hell, calm down.
So demonstrations don't highlight issues in the media and therefore make governments act? Odd.
It isn't illogical for someone to have travelled somewhere for a climate protest when the issue is largely created by industry/governments and not individuals. Yes, all of these things are contributing factors but nowhere on the same scale. This is the same as the 'if you love refugees so much why don't you have them living with you' argument. Lol.
If you've read many views (depressingly on here) then you will know a large proportion of people still do not accept global warming. This is an issue we have history on R so I would hope you recognise this.
Getting people to recycle their egg cartons is the minimum. We now need international action, which is what these protests are demanding. But if you and others just want to focus on the personal then that is fine. |  |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 21:53 - Apr 19 with 3746 views | Ryorry |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 21:43 - Apr 19 by footers |
Fcking hell, calm down.
So demonstrations don't highlight issues in the media and therefore make governments act? Odd.
It isn't illogical for someone to have travelled somewhere for a climate protest when the issue is largely created by industry/governments and not individuals. Yes, all of these things are contributing factors but nowhere on the same scale. This is the same as the 'if you love refugees so much why don't you have them living with you' argument. Lol.
If you've read many views (depressingly on here) then you will know a large proportion of people still do not accept global warming. This is an issue we have history on R so I would hope you recognise this.
Getting people to recycle their egg cartons is the minimum. We now need international action, which is what these protests are demanding. But if you and others just want to focus on the personal then that is fine. |
1. I am perfectly calm, it's you that's got your knickers in a twist
2."But if you and others just want to focus on the personal then that is fine."
It might help if you were to actually read what I actually said in my post.
I'm off for my tea. [Post edited 19 Apr 2019 21:55]
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 21:53 - Apr 19 with 3745 views | m14_blue |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 20:38 - Apr 19 by brogansnose |
We are Zombie walking into climate change and burying our heads in the sand. An old fkr like me is behind the lot of them, although I don't want to go for a drink with them ! Things need to happen and now. Everything else means chuff all. |
Exactly this.
The protesters are making people face up to an extremely uncomfortable truth and decrying them, rather than tackling the issue, is the easy option and a way of assuaging our guilt.
Most average people, myself included, pay lip service to environmental issues but have been unwilling to make any serious sacrifices to our quality of life and ease of modern living.
That’s the stark truth and it’s not nice to hear. Far easier to just sneer and say ‘but they went on holiday last year’ than to face up to our own selfishness. [Post edited 19 Apr 2019 21:57]
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 21:56 - Apr 19 with 3735 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 21:10 - Apr 19 by WeWereZombies |
Majority of my electricity now comes from renewables, am thinking about if I could get through next winter by burning wood from my garden (already able to get by until then using the woodburner instead of the oil fired central heating) and I hope that my next car can be an electric one (again using electricity mainly from renewables). It can be done and is getting easier, do not be such a defeatist. |
You are not being as righteous as you think!
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/mar/01/pollutionwatch-wood-burning- |  |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 22:00 - Apr 19 with 3728 views | J2BLUE |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 21:43 - Apr 19 by footers |
Fcking hell, calm down.
So demonstrations don't highlight issues in the media and therefore make governments act? Odd.
It isn't illogical for someone to have travelled somewhere for a climate protest when the issue is largely created by industry/governments and not individuals. Yes, all of these things are contributing factors but nowhere on the same scale. This is the same as the 'if you love refugees so much why don't you have them living with you' argument. Lol.
If you've read many views (depressingly on here) then you will know a large proportion of people still do not accept global warming. This is an issue we have history on R so I would hope you recognise this.
Getting people to recycle their egg cartons is the minimum. We now need international action, which is what these protests are demanding. But if you and others just want to focus on the personal then that is fine. |
If you've read many views (depressingly on here) then you will know a large proportion of people still do not accept global warming.
I think this is nonsense. A minority don't believe the facts and I don't mean to be rude to them but they aren't the kind of people who are going to solve the problem anyway. It's going to take technological advances from the very brightest and as much contribution from the rest of us as we can make. The small minority who still deny reality are a lost cause. |  |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 22:06 - Apr 19 with 3714 views | BackToRussia |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 21:23 - Apr 19 by Ryorry |
You and a few others simply aren't getting it.
We all want to save poor planet Earth, its humans, animals, vegetation, climate, water and other eco systems. This means getting pretty much everybody on side not only to do their own personal bit by reducing their own carbon footprint, but also to vote in politicians who will implement policies supporting renewables, who will not implement policies favouring gas and oil companies because they have shares in them - etc etc etc.
The way to do that is not to engage in fuzzy, well-meaning demos, which only have the net result of 1) preaching to and pleasing the already converted, which is pointless 2) alienating many of the not-already converted who could justifiably point to the illogicality of the protest, given, eg, the examples of the celebs jetted in, the mountain of plastic bottles left behind etc etc 3) alienating still more by the sheer disruption - medical appointments & job interviews missed, key workers arriving late, etc etc.
As for "it's got everyone talking" - are you (and some others on the thread) seriously saying there were people before these protests who were actually unaware of the crisis humanity is facing re climate change?! And if by some miniscule chance there were, a programme like Attenborough's on BBC1 last night will have done a million times more to get the message across, not just because of the prime-time exposure, but because he & the programme-makers (it was a BBC+OU collaboration) understand the psychology of persuasion - engage with people, gentle them into wanting to do their bit - don't delay them from keeping crucial events in their lives and thereafter expect them to be sympathetic to the cause - human nature just doesn't work like that!
Said this so many times now. |
So it's their fault people are doing nothing to save the planet because they were made to miss their bus? | |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 22:10 - Apr 19 with 3698 views | Herbivore |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 12:38 - Apr 19 by BloomBlue |
As I said if everyone stopped using the internet that would make a massive difference much more than stopping all air travel would.
But when I was in the west end earlier this week nearly everyone one of those protesting was using a smartphone. |
I'd love to see some science that backs up ceasing Internet use will be better for the environment than ceasing all air travel. If you think that not using the Internet will make a big difference then I very much look forward to seeing you do your bit for climate change. |  |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 22:15 - Apr 19 with 3688 views | SpruceMoose |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 07:57 - Apr 19 by Benters2 |
Load of crap innit.
Time to bring out the water cannon I reckon. |
Good to see you've softened your stance since wanting to see refugees machine gunned to death I suppose. |  |
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 22:17 - Apr 19 with 3681 views | SpruceMoose |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 12:44 - Apr 19 by jeera |
All you've done is repeat the same rubbish.
You change the things you can, not tell others to change the things they can't. |
What did you expect from that complete and utter troll/moron*?
* you decide which. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 22:19 - Apr 19 with 3669 views | Ryorry |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 22:06 - Apr 19 by BackToRussia |
So it's their fault people are doing nothing to save the planet because they were made to miss their bus? |
Trivialise everything I said why don't you.
I was trying to explain how best to get the overwhelming majority of the population onside to vote in politicians who will implement the policies promoting renewables rather than oil, and other policies to slow down climate change. That is not going to happen by alienating people.
Unfortunately your post is a prime example of what I mean - ridiculing what I said, reducing it to a banality is not a good way to get someone on side. Luckily I was already in the campaigning for the environment lobby, and have been for 50 years, so won't be put off continuing that by you or others. Suggest you think about the psychology of how to get people on side and accepting your message a bit more. | |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 22:19 - Apr 19 with 3669 views | SpruceMoose |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 14:14 - Apr 19 by J2BLUE |
A few of them apparently had trials set for May 6th and were refused bail according to Sky.
I bet that wasn't part of the plan. |
Oh well. While I don't really understand the sneering at the protesters, I for one am happy that the future climate of the earth is safe in the hands of men posting on the internet rather than people motivated to actually do something. [Post edited 19 Apr 2019 22:22]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 22:21 - Apr 19 with 3656 views | J2BLUE |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 22:19 - Apr 19 by SpruceMoose |
Oh well. While I don't really understand the sneering at the protesters, I for one am happy that the future climate of the earth is safe in the hands of men posting on the internet rather than people motivated to actually do something. [Post edited 19 Apr 2019 22:22]
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What like attempt to disrupt flights? | |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 22:23 - Apr 19 with 3647 views | SpruceMoose |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 22:10 - Apr 19 by Herbivore |
I'd love to see some science that backs up ceasing Internet use will be better for the environment than ceasing all air travel. If you think that not using the Internet will make a big difference then I very much look forward to seeing you do your bit for climate change. |
This made Oi laff. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 22:25 - Apr 19 with 3631 views | SpruceMoose |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 22:21 - Apr 19 by J2BLUE |
What like attempt to disrupt flights? |
Like I said to you yesterday, doing so would be counter productive*. But it would still be a hell of a lot more honest than the smug sneering that's going on in this thread.
*only because people want to go on holiday AND have someone else sort out climate change. I would know. I've done just that recently. At least I'm honest enough to own up to my hypocrisy and be thankful there are people out there with more integrity than me. [Post edited 19 Apr 2019 22:27]
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| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 22:33 - Apr 19 with 3600 views | J2BLUE |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 22:25 - Apr 19 by SpruceMoose |
Like I said to you yesterday, doing so would be counter productive*. But it would still be a hell of a lot more honest than the smug sneering that's going on in this thread.
*only because people want to go on holiday AND have someone else sort out climate change. I would know. I've done just that recently. At least I'm honest enough to own up to my hypocrisy and be thankful there are people out there with more integrity than me. [Post edited 19 Apr 2019 22:27]
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No smug sneering. Some of us have just disagreed with their methods. It's called empathy for the people affected. Ryorry was worried about someone stuck in the car for a long time in pain. I felt sorry for anyone affected at the airports who may have been visiting family on a few rare and precious days off together which I believe is something you enjoyed recently? You said it would have pissed you off if it had affected you. I was simply extending that empathy to anyone else affected. I am lucky enough to have my close family within a mile or two and most of my extended family within an hour or two.
We're disagreeing about the method, not the fact they are taking action. I know it's an important issue and people will say you need to break a few eggs etc but ordinary people getting away for a few days are the wrong target IMO.
There seems to be a misconception that if we disagree with the method or the targets we are somehow too stupid to see how big an issue it is. | |
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| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 22:34 - Apr 19 with 3597 views | Ryorry |
| Fantastic to read reports of young people on 22:25 - Apr 19 by SpruceMoose |
Like I said to you yesterday, doing so would be counter productive*. But it would still be a hell of a lot more honest than the smug sneering that's going on in this thread.
*only because people want to go on holiday AND have someone else sort out climate change. I would know. I've done just that recently. At least I'm honest enough to own up to my hypocrisy and be thankful there are people out there with more integrity than me. [Post edited 19 Apr 2019 22:27]
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Who has been smugly sneering?
J2, Lucan & myself have simply said that we think there are more effective ways of achieving the end goal than by blocking people going about the daily, in some cases very serious, aspects of their lives. For which we've received a lot of pretty unfair stick, and I really don't know why. Perhaps some people on here are just sh1t scared of the future for the planet, and therefore the topic stresses them. Well fair enough, but it does me too, and I'm late 60s & don't even have kids!! | |
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