| Is there any point.... 12:15 - May 1 with 6805 views | chicoazul |
.....in having an Academy now?
Given the amount of money that swims around the game now surely, if the young players we build are any good, they will do a Charlie Brown or a Ben Knight? People will say, well we have lots of young players coming through now. Well, we just got relegated. So what does that say about those young players?
However many millions the Academy costs might we be better in investing that into a scouting network?
Worth a think boyos. |  |
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| Is there any point.... on 12:18 - May 1 with 3754 views | Reuser_is_God |
Stop investing X into the academy to invest X into a scouting network falls down when we have to pay Y for scouted players. |  |
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| Is there any point.... on 12:19 - May 1 with 3718 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
We didnt get relegated because of our academy products, we got relegated because we got rid of our best senior players.
How much does the academy cost to run? Remember those young players that have been sold help pay for it.
Bishop, Downes, Lankester have all made good contributions and could bring decent fees if sold.
Kenlock, Emmanuel, Dozzell and Nydam are also useful squad members.
I would be very disappointed if we got rid of the academy. |  |
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| Is there any point.... on 12:21 - May 1 with 3716 views | chicoazul |
| Is there any point.... on 12:18 - May 1 by Reuser_is_God |
Stop investing X into the academy to invest X into a scouting network falls down when we have to pay Y for scouted players. |
That is certainly a fair point. But Man City paid us £1m for Ben Knight and Pukki, yes a bit of a freak but here me out, was *free*. | |
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| Is there any point.... on 12:23 - May 1 with 3693 views | maccyd9 |
| Is there any point.... on 12:19 - May 1 by Marshalls_Mullet |
We didnt get relegated because of our academy products, we got relegated because we got rid of our best senior players.
How much does the academy cost to run? Remember those young players that have been sold help pay for it.
Bishop, Downes, Lankester have all made good contributions and could bring decent fees if sold.
Kenlock, Emmanuel, Dozzell and Nydam are also useful squad members.
I would be very disappointed if we got rid of the academy. |
The success of an academy should be based on those academy players being sold for significant sums or going on to make significant contributions.
I'm talking the likes of Dyer, Wright, Bramble, not those that are essentially filling in due to lack of investment. The young players have been a red herring this year. None of them have excelled and none would be close to the starting 11 had there been proper investment.
The academy is not producing and hasn't been for some time. |  | | |
| Is there any point.... on 12:24 - May 1 with 3688 views | Reuser_is_God |
| Is there any point.... on 12:21 - May 1 by chicoazul |
That is certainly a fair point. But Man City paid us £1m for Ben Knight and Pukki, yes a bit of a freak but here me out, was *free*. |
You can't compare that though can you?
If we scrapped our academy & put all of that money into scouting & recruitment to for the 1st team I'd imagine we'd be worse off. | |
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| Is there any point.... on 12:25 - May 1 with 3666 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Is there any point.... on 12:21 - May 1 by chicoazul |
That is certainly a fair point. But Man City paid us £1m for Ben Knight and Pukki, yes a bit of a freak but here me out, was *free*. |
You cant base every decision on the fact that SOME amazing free transfers are available.
To counter your point, Norwich have Pukki AND Arrons and Lewis.
Better to have good youth products and good scouting. | |
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| Is there any point.... on 12:25 - May 1 with 3657 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Is there any point.... on 12:24 - May 1 by Reuser_is_God |
You can't compare that though can you?
If we scrapped our academy & put all of that money into scouting & recruitment to for the 1st team I'd imagine we'd be worse off. |
Agreed, reference this summers transfer dealings... | |
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| Is there any point.... on 12:26 - May 1 with 3669 views | chicoazul |
| Is there any point.... on 12:24 - May 1 by Reuser_is_God |
You can't compare that though can you?
If we scrapped our academy & put all of that money into scouting & recruitment to for the 1st team I'd imagine we'd be worse off. |
Yes I can because you said one of the problems with my solution is finding the money to buy the players we scout, and I gave two examples one of whom cost relative peanuts and another who cost nothing at all, so the players are out there. | |
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| Is there any point.... on 12:27 - May 1 with 3646 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Is there any point.... on 12:23 - May 1 by maccyd9 |
The success of an academy should be based on those academy players being sold for significant sums or going on to make significant contributions.
I'm talking the likes of Dyer, Wright, Bramble, not those that are essentially filling in due to lack of investment. The young players have been a red herring this year. None of them have excelled and none would be close to the starting 11 had there been proper investment.
The academy is not producing and hasn't been for some time. |
Disagree.
Bishop would have had serious value but for injury. Downes and Lankester also have value that could be cashed in on.... there would also be an opportunity cost had they not been produced. | |
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| Is there any point.... on 12:29 - May 1 with 3632 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Is there any point.... on 12:26 - May 1 by chicoazul |
Yes I can because you said one of the problems with my solution is finding the money to buy the players we scout, and I gave two examples one of whom cost relative peanuts and another who cost nothing at all, so the players are out there. |
There are also duds out there.
Youre argument is massively flawed.
having an academy, doesnt mean you cant also scout good players.
Did having an academy prevent us from signings;
Mings
Cresswell
Waghorn
Garner
Murphy
Webster
McGoldrick
Bart
etc etc etc
No it didnt. | |
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| Is there any point.... on 12:30 - May 1 with 3628 views | SouperJim |
| Is there any point.... on 12:26 - May 1 by chicoazul |
Yes I can because you said one of the problems with my solution is finding the money to buy the players we scout, and I gave two examples one of whom cost relative peanuts and another who cost nothing at all, so the players are out there. |
More akin to the McCarthy approach then, which even with his track record for unearthing gems, didn't get us too far did it?
For every Teemu Pukki there are 100 Balint Bajners. |  |
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| Is there any point.... on 12:31 - May 1 with 3611 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Is there any point.... on 12:30 - May 1 by SouperJim |
More akin to the McCarthy approach then, which even with his track record for unearthing gems, didn't get us too far did it?
For every Teemu Pukki there are 100 Balint Bajners. |
Agreed. | |
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| Is there any point.... on 12:32 - May 1 with 3613 views | chicoazul |
| Is there any point.... on 12:23 - May 1 by maccyd9 |
The success of an academy should be based on those academy players being sold for significant sums or going on to make significant contributions.
I'm talking the likes of Dyer, Wright, Bramble, not those that are essentially filling in due to lack of investment. The young players have been a red herring this year. None of them have excelled and none would be close to the starting 11 had there been proper investment.
The academy is not producing and hasn't been for some time. |
Over the last 15 years how many youngsters have we had come into the first team and be sold for a significant sum? Wickham, and.....? The argument that the Academy saves the club money it would otherwise have to pay for signing players is an interesting one. | |
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| Is there any point.... on 12:33 - May 1 with 3605 views | maccyd9 |
| Is there any point.... on 12:27 - May 1 by Marshalls_Mullet |
Disagree.
Bishop would have had serious value but for injury. Downes and Lankester also have value that could be cashed in on.... there would also be an opportunity cost had they not been produced. |
My point was that the success of the academy is output, be it fees or significant contribution to the first team that saves you spending x on players.
None of those listed have done either imo. | | | |
| Is there any point.... on 12:35 - May 1 with 3587 views | chicoazul |
| Is there any point.... on 12:30 - May 1 by SouperJim |
More akin to the McCarthy approach then, which even with his track record for unearthing gems, didn't get us too far did it?
For every Teemu Pukki there are 100 Balint Bajners. |
To be fair to Mick he scouted and signed Bart, Mings, McG, Waghorn, Webster.....yes of course he signed some duds too. And let's not forget his approach did indeed do us very well for a long time! | |
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| Is there any point.... on 12:35 - May 1 with 3585 views | SouperJim |
| Is there any point.... on 12:32 - May 1 by chicoazul |
Over the last 15 years how many youngsters have we had come into the first team and be sold for a significant sum? Wickham, and.....? The argument that the Academy saves the club money it would otherwise have to pay for signing players is an interesting one. |
Over the last 15 years the progress of any good young players the academy has produced has often been hampered by loanees and mercenaries brought in by managers following the ME short-termism approach.
Also, the worth of a youth product isn't simply measured by what we can sell them for, it's what they contribute playing for ITFC versus what they would have cost if we had to buy them from elsewhere. | |
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| Is there any point.... on 12:36 - May 1 with 3578 views | SouperJim |
| Is there any point.... on 12:35 - May 1 by chicoazul |
To be fair to Mick he scouted and signed Bart, Mings, McG, Waghorn, Webster.....yes of course he signed some duds too. And let's not forget his approach did indeed do us very well for a long time! |
I agree completely, but it wasn't enough to have us competing beyond our financial clout. Properly investing in our youngsters and building a team with momentum from the ground up just might. | |
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| Is there any point.... on 12:37 - May 1 with 3578 views | maccyd9 |
| Is there any point.... on 12:32 - May 1 by chicoazul |
Over the last 15 years how many youngsters have we had come into the first team and be sold for a significant sum? Wickham, and.....? The argument that the Academy saves the club money it would otherwise have to pay for signing players is an interesting one. |
The output has been woeful.
Even in Wickham's case he landed on our doorstep because his dad moved from Reading. We didn't produce him, we just got very lucky.
Every time we produce a top class youngster we will lose them before they make a first team appearance until such time as we can be a top 6 Championship club. | | | |
| Is there any point.... on 12:39 - May 1 with 3561 views | chicoazul |
| Is there any point.... on 12:36 - May 1 by SouperJim |
I agree completely, but it wasn't enough to have us competing beyond our financial clout. Properly investing in our youngsters and building a team with momentum from the ground up just might. |
But as I said, if those players are any good, they will leave. Things have changed massively since Wark Butcher Brazil, Dyer Wright Scowcroft, Bent Ambrose. | |
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| Is there any point.... on 12:40 - May 1 with 3549 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Is there any point.... on 12:30 - May 1 by SouperJim |
More akin to the McCarthy approach then, which even with his track record for unearthing gems, didn't get us too far did it?
For every Teemu Pukki there are 100 Balint Bajners. |
To be fair, we have nearly produced (through academy plus signings) a Premier League team over the past 10 years, unfortunately, they werent wearing Town shirts when they did.
GK
Rosenior
Mings
Delaney
Macauley
Cresswell
Walters
Garvan
M
A
Rhodes
Wickham | |
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| Is there any point.... on 12:40 - May 1 with 3546 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Is there any point.... on 12:33 - May 1 by maccyd9 |
My point was that the success of the academy is output, be it fees or significant contribution to the first team that saves you spending x on players.
None of those listed have done either imo. |
Agree to differ. | |
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| Is there any point.... on 12:41 - May 1 with 3542 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Is there any point.... on 12:32 - May 1 by chicoazul |
Over the last 15 years how many youngsters have we had come into the first team and be sold for a significant sum? Wickham, and.....? The argument that the Academy saves the club money it would otherwise have to pay for signing players is an interesting one. |
Something isnt working?
Your choice... scrap it.
My choice... improve it.
Agree to differ. | |
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| Is there any point.... on 12:43 - May 1 with 3541 views | chicoazul |
Marshalls Mullet I can see you have replied a few times in this post, I dont know if you are replying directly to me, but this is just a helpful reminder that you are on my Ignore list so you wont be getting any answers. | |
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| Is there any point.... on 12:43 - May 1 with 3528 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Is there any point.... on 12:39 - May 1 by chicoazul |
But as I said, if those players are any good, they will leave. Things have changed massively since Wark Butcher Brazil, Dyer Wright Scowcroft, Bent Ambrose. |
If they are elite players, they will sell for c.£1m and contribute to the cost of the academy.
If they are not elite, but progress to the first team, they may sell on for big money like Wickham.
If they are Ipswich first team standard, they will stay and save us transfer fees.
I assume you would be happy for Bishop, Downes, Dozzell and Lankester to leave on free transfers this summer? | |
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| Is there any point.... on 12:44 - May 1 with 3525 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| Is there any point.... on 12:35 - May 1 by chicoazul |
To be fair to Mick he scouted and signed Bart, Mings, McG, Waghorn, Webster.....yes of course he signed some duds too. And let's not forget his approach did indeed do us very well for a long time! |
Webster scouted Bart.
Osborne scouted Mings.
;-) | |
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