| Nice headline, terrible policy on 13:17 - May 11 with 7372 views | J2BLUE |
A gift for people who can't vote? That's a new one. |  |
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| Nice headline, terrible policy on 13:19 - May 11 with 7372 views | factual_blue |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 13:17 - May 11 by J2BLUE |
A gift for people who can't vote? That's a new one. |
Hardly.
We give wealthy foreign nationals outrageous tax breaks, and they can't vote either. |  |
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| Nice headline, terrible policy on 13:25 - May 11 with 7360 views | sparks |
Why on earth should people be paid less because of their age?
If it were older people being paid less, it would rightly be considered discriminatory.
The current system actually has a lower minimum wage for under 25s- which is completely unjustifiable. Plenty of people in their late teens or early twenties have responsibilities the same as those who are 26 and over.... |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Nice headline, terrible policy on 13:25 - May 11 with 7359 views | J2BLUE |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 13:19 - May 11 by factual_blue |
Hardly.
We give wealthy foreign nationals outrageous tax breaks, and they can't vote either. |
You would have thought he would have handed 18-30 year olds something extra instead though. Perhaps we could have a voluntary scheme where rich pensioners can opt out of the winter fuel allowance and free bus pass. The savings could fund something needed like the NHS or tackling homelessness. | |
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| Nice headline, terrible policy on 13:27 - May 11 with 7351 views | DanTheMan |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 13:25 - May 11 by sparks |
Why on earth should people be paid less because of their age?
If it were older people being paid less, it would rightly be considered discriminatory.
The current system actually has a lower minimum wage for under 25s- which is completely unjustifiable. Plenty of people in their late teens or early twenties have responsibilities the same as those who are 26 and over.... |
Agreed. I could maybe see an argument for people who are not legally adults, but anyone who is an adult should be getting paid minimum wage. |  |
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| Nice headline, terrible policy on 13:32 - May 11 with 7336 views | sparks |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 13:27 - May 11 by DanTheMan |
Agreed. I could maybe see an argument for people who are not legally adults, but anyone who is an adult should be getting paid minimum wage. |
There is conceivably an argument for apprentices / trainees. And I see it is said that there is a pragmatic argument for somethign to encourage employment of young inexperienced folk. There is no justification at all for anyone over, say, 21, to have a lower minimum wage. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Nice headline, terrible policy on 13:41 - May 11 with 7311 views | dickie |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 13:32 - May 11 by sparks |
There is conceivably an argument for apprentices / trainees. And I see it is said that there is a pragmatic argument for somethign to encourage employment of young inexperienced folk. There is no justification at all for anyone over, say, 21, to have a lower minimum wage. |
This used to drive me nuts when I was 16 - 21 working in retail. The old ladies who worked with me but barely lifted a finger were literally earning double what I was earning. |  | | |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 13:50 - May 11 with 7286 views | sparks |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 13:41 - May 11 by dickie |
This used to drive me nuts when I was 16 - 21 working in retail. The old ladies who worked with me but barely lifted a finger were literally earning double what I was earning. |
Quite.
In circumstances where those old ladies probably have a paid off mortgage and a spouse, and the 20 year old is paying through the nose for a tatty bedsit and trying to get a start in life. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Nice headline, terrible policy on 13:51 - May 11 with 7284 views | factual_blue |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 13:25 - May 11 by J2BLUE |
You would have thought he would have handed 18-30 year olds something extra instead though. Perhaps we could have a voluntary scheme where rich pensioners can opt out of the winter fuel allowance and free bus pass. The savings could fund something needed like the NHS or tackling homelessness. |
They should get treated just the same as adults aged 54-66.
The bus pass, BTW, is voluntary. You have to apply for it, and I'm not old enough for either it or the winter fuel allowance. [Post edited 11 May 2019 13:56]
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| Nice headline, terrible policy on 16:33 - May 11 with 7167 views | bontcho |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 13:25 - May 11 by J2BLUE |
You would have thought he would have handed 18-30 year olds something extra instead though. Perhaps we could have a voluntary scheme where rich pensioners can opt out of the winter fuel allowance and free bus pass. The savings could fund something needed like the NHS or tackling homelessness. |
Good luck getting baby boomers, the most selfish generation ever, to do something for anyone else! |  |
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| Nice headline, terrible policy on 01:11 - May 12 with 7049 views | BrixtonBlue |
I notice you've called it a terrible policy but haven't bothered to explain why.
It's also interesting that we have a Corbyn thread that's about policy rather than the person and it's struggling to make one page after half a day. |  |
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| Nice headline, terrible policy on 01:26 - May 12 with 7042 views | jeera |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 13:25 - May 11 by sparks |
Why on earth should people be paid less because of their age?
If it were older people being paid less, it would rightly be considered discriminatory.
The current system actually has a lower minimum wage for under 25s- which is completely unjustifiable. Plenty of people in their late teens or early twenties have responsibilities the same as those who are 26 and over.... |
Quite.
I've noticed in the hospitality trade youngsters especially being taken advantage of.
One girl in particular springs to mind. I saw her numerous times last summer pretty much single-handedly running the restaurant of a busy well-known establishment near to me.
I can understand under 18s as a rule maybe not being up to speed nor up to taking on board responsibilities of their more experienced colleagues, but the owner of this specific place is a fool to not reward some of his staff accordingly because they do leave, and the decent ones are difficult to replace. |  |
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| Nice headline, terrible policy on 01:42 - May 12 with 7037 views | catch74 |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 01:26 - May 12 by jeera |
Quite.
I've noticed in the hospitality trade youngsters especially being taken advantage of.
One girl in particular springs to mind. I saw her numerous times last summer pretty much single-handedly running the restaurant of a busy well-known establishment near to me.
I can understand under 18s as a rule maybe not being up to speed nor up to taking on board responsibilities of their more experienced colleagues, but the owner of this specific place is a fool to not reward some of his staff accordingly because they do leave, and the decent ones are difficult to replace. |
A couple of years ago I had a 17 year old apprentice working for me. I could legally have paid him (from the top of my head) £2.64 an hour! Needless to say I didn’t!
Things have changed too. I used to get £1500 yr govt. funding for an apprentice. The latest one I tried to recruit I needed to pay £700 if their fees. It’s a real shame as it’s something that has really worked for us. |  |
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| Nice headline, terrible policy on 01:59 - May 12 with 7033 views | jeera |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 01:42 - May 12 by catch74 |
A couple of years ago I had a 17 year old apprentice working for me. I could legally have paid him (from the top of my head) £2.64 an hour! Needless to say I didn’t!
Things have changed too. I used to get £1500 yr govt. funding for an apprentice. The latest one I tried to recruit I needed to pay £700 if their fees. It’s a real shame as it’s something that has really worked for us. |
Yes of course. The support isn't there as it was/could be; funing removed and the potential employer expected to pay out more, so a double whammy.
Where's the incentive to recruit trainees there?
Also I didn't mean to tar with the same brush either.
As you say yourself, if someone is worth hanging on to, then you don't take the piss. | |
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| Nice headline, terrible policy on 09:43 - May 12 with 6907 views | catch74 |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 01:59 - May 12 by jeera |
Yes of course. The support isn't there as it was/could be; funing removed and the potential employer expected to pay out more, so a double whammy.
Where's the incentive to recruit trainees there?
Also I didn't mean to tar with the same brush either.
As you say yourself, if someone is worth hanging on to, then you don't take the piss. |
You’re absolutely right though, hospitality sector not great with this. | |
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| Nice headline, terrible policy on 10:09 - May 12 with 6892 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 01:26 - May 12 by jeera |
Quite.
I've noticed in the hospitality trade youngsters especially being taken advantage of.
One girl in particular springs to mind. I saw her numerous times last summer pretty much single-handedly running the restaurant of a busy well-known establishment near to me.
I can understand under 18s as a rule maybe not being up to speed nor up to taking on board responsibilities of their more experienced colleagues, but the owner of this specific place is a fool to not reward some of his staff accordingly because they do leave, and the decent ones are difficult to replace. |
How do you know what wage she was on/that the owner hadn't rewarded her?
Generally though I agree, youngsters are exploited. I've seen it (and experienced it myself) with advertising creatives when they first start out. Agencies literally get placement kids in because the budget's tight and they're cheap labour. The idea of a placement is with a view to a permanent job - but very often there is no permanent job.
It's a disgrace and it's brilliant that Corbyn's addressing it. | |
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| Nice headline, terrible policy on 10:10 - May 12 with 6891 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 13:17 - May 11 by J2BLUE |
A gift for people who can't vote? That's a new one. |
Indeed. Shows he's more about doing what's right than chasing votes. You'd never see the Tories entertain such a policy. | |
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| Nice headline, terrible policy on 10:55 - May 12 with 6872 views | BloomBlue |
All it will result in is people losing their jobs or increased costs for everyone. Life is very simple money in has to be higher than money out. For small businesses if you force them to increase costs out they have to increase cost in, ie charge more for their goods or not employee as many people.
All this will do is impact small businesses. |  | | |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 11:03 - May 12 with 6861 views | BlueBadger |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 10:55 - May 12 by BloomBlue |
All it will result in is people losing their jobs or increased costs for everyone. Life is very simple money in has to be higher than money out. For small businesses if you force them to increase costs out they have to increase cost in, ie charge more for their goods or not employee as many people.
All this will do is impact small businesses. |
People said that when the minimum wage first came in. It didn't happen. |  |
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| Nice headline, terrible policy on 11:11 - May 12 with 6842 views | gtsb |
I didn't realise that the minimum wage for under 18's was so low. That's slave labour. A forty hour week would pay £174. That's disgraceful. |  | | |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 11:11 - May 12 with 6840 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 10:55 - May 12 by BloomBlue |
All it will result in is people losing their jobs or increased costs for everyone. Life is very simple money in has to be higher than money out. For small businesses if you force them to increase costs out they have to increase cost in, ie charge more for their goods or not employee as many people.
All this will do is impact small businesses. |
a) That's not true (see Badger's reply).
b) So the answer is to keep paying youngsters a pittance and treat them like little more than slaves? | |
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| Nice headline, terrible policy on 11:20 - May 12 with 6824 views | BlueBadger |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 11:11 - May 12 by BrixtonBlue |
a) That's not true (see Badger's reply).
b) So the answer is to keep paying youngsters a pittance and treat them like little more than slaves? |
Interstingly enough, there's a fair few local business round here that are notorious for sacking 'older'(read: over 25) employees so they can keep taking on spotty youths for less. It's a policy that seen their trade and local rep take a dive as they don't deliver half as good a service as they don't have enough experienced staff to a) know the job properly and b) properly train teh youngster how to do the job properly. Their solution has been to double down on the their employment policy. They'll both be out of business in the next few years I reckon. | |
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| Nice headline, terrible policy on 11:36 - May 12 with 6800 views | gazzer1999 |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 13:25 - May 11 by sparks |
Why on earth should people be paid less because of their age?
If it were older people being paid less, it would rightly be considered discriminatory.
The current system actually has a lower minimum wage for under 25s- which is completely unjustifiable. Plenty of people in their late teens or early twenties have responsibilities the same as those who are 26 and over.... |
I think if you are serving coffee or changing bed linen for an example, there is an argument for paying the same regardless of age. However if you are talking about highly skilled work which you are learning and takes a minimum of say 3 years to master then I think as training is very expensive to employers then it is only right to be paid a percentage of the going rate. Once the skills have been mastered then it is only right that you should receive the full pay regardless of age. I might add that many years ago in my industry if you had spent 4 consecutive years with an employer through you apprenticeship you were entitled to the full going rate, not sure if the same still applies these days. |  | | |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 11:40 - May 12 with 6794 views | gazzer1999 |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 13:25 - May 11 by J2BLUE |
You would have thought he would have handed 18-30 year olds something extra instead though. Perhaps we could have a voluntary scheme where rich pensioners can opt out of the winter fuel allowance and free bus pass. The savings could fund something needed like the NHS or tackling homelessness. |
How do you tackle homelessness? Do you give them free houses? Something thats not available to the rest of us. Or do we tackle the causes like drugs and anti socialism. | | | |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 12:03 - May 12 with 6770 views | Sarge |
| Nice headline, terrible policy on 10:55 - May 12 by BloomBlue |
All it will result in is people losing their jobs or increased costs for everyone. Life is very simple money in has to be higher than money out. For small businesses if you force them to increase costs out they have to increase cost in, ie charge more for their goods or not employee as many people.
All this will do is impact small businesses. |
We’re talking about raising the minimum wage for teenagers, we’re not talking about Brexit. | | | |
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