| 2nd referendum 09:14 - May 12 with 23854 views | gazzer1999 |
For all those that are seeking a 2nd referendum are you using the upcoming euro elections as just that?. It would be a good way for you to prove a point by not voting Labour or Conservative, and instead voting Libdems as they are the only party that have said they want to stay in the EU and have a clear way forward.
On the other hand if the Brexit Party get the most votes will they accept that they could not win a 2nd referendum? |  | | |  |
| 2nd referendum on 10:28 - May 12 with 4165 views | Basuco |
| 2nd referendum on 09:52 - May 12 by SteveMcCallsTeeth |
They will never allow another referendum. You cant dismiss 17 million votes just like that. It would cripple democracy in this country forever. |
But don't you think that as MP's will not allow no deal and cannot agree on a deal the only other option is stay in the EU. So surely the only other option left is another vote but with these three options, exit EU with current deal, exit EU with no deal or stay in EU. |  | | |
| 2nd referendum on 10:29 - May 12 with 4162 views | Darth_Koont |
| 2nd referendum on 10:22 - May 12 by SteveMcCallsTeeth |
Shall we replay the referendum every year then too? |
Every year?
It was three years ago and the situation looks completely different now. Not least because even the Brexiteers in charge of the negotiations have had to concede that they don't know what they are doing nor how they could ever deliver on their pre-referendum promises and claims. |  |
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| 2nd referendum on 10:30 - May 12 with 4159 views | Swansea_Blue |
| 2nd referendum on 10:26 - May 12 by gazzer1999 |
What like the budget the next day, rising unemployment, higher interest rates, recession. Oh yes I remember them well. All those things were going to happen, 3 years later I am still waiting. |
3 years on and we still have to put up with this level insight. It’s depressing as feck. |  |
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| 2nd referendum on 10:32 - May 12 with 4154 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| 2nd referendum on 10:12 - May 12 by itfc_bucks |
Name those remain lies.
Let's see if they were quite as monumental as, say 350m per week for the NHS. |
1. Free movement doesn't reduce wages of the low paid.....a hugely damaging lie
that people had witnessed in their daily lives for years, so easily dismissing the rest of the Remain narrative. |  |
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| 2nd referendum on 10:32 - May 12 with 4148 views | Swansea_Blue |
| 2nd referendum on 10:22 - May 12 by SteveMcCallsTeeth |
Shall we replay the referendum every year then too? |
It’s your analogy, do what you want with it. | |
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| 2nd referendum on 10:34 - May 12 with 4140 views | BlueBadger |
| 2nd referendum on 10:18 - May 12 by TractorWood |
Cameron's naïve approach was the issue. Public opinion on capital punishment has been generally been in favour of limited reintroduction since the mid-60's. However, whenever it gets remotely close to the legislature it gets slapped down with condescension.
Direct democracy only works if people understand the complexity of the issue. Which, in both cases the electorate does not. It should never have been a binding referendum. |
Legally it wasn't. Which is why, we're still apparently attempting to leave with re-running the vote as would have happened in a legally binding vote. |  |
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| 2nd referendum on 10:36 - May 12 with 4138 views | BlueBadger |
| 2nd referendum on 10:29 - May 12 by Darth_Koont |
Every year?
It was three years ago and the situation looks completely different now. Not least because even the Brexiteers in charge of the negotiations have had to concede that they don't know what they are doing nor how they could ever deliver on their pre-referendum promises and claims. |
Ironically enough, a second referendum could actually deliver Brexit Nige and his band of Merry Racists want rather the 'betrayal' than Downing Street are apparently set on delivering. | |
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| 2nd referendum on 10:36 - May 12 with 4139 views | Darth_Koont |
| 2nd referendum on 10:32 - May 12 by BanksterDebtSlave |
1. Free movement doesn't reduce wages of the low paid.....a hugely damaging lie
that people had witnessed in their daily lives for years, so easily dismissing the rest of the Remain narrative. |
Yes, there is evidence that it does reduce wages in some specific industries. Maybe you can show your workings for your overall claim that free movement suppresses wages? | |
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| 2nd referendum on 10:39 - May 12 with 4128 views | BlueBadger |
| 2nd referendum on 10:36 - May 12 by Darth_Koont |
Yes, there is evidence that it does reduce wages in some specific industries. Maybe you can show your workings for your overall claim that free movement suppresses wages? |
The evidance was that there was a small effect that was either negated by changes to the minimum wage or minimal in comparison to other factors, such as the financial crisis.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46918729
Interesting phrase here:
'When it talks about a small impact, it looked at the period from 1993 to 2017, over which time average earnings for the lowest-paid rose by 55%. Using economic modelling, they estimated that - if there hadn't been European migration into the UK - that rise would have been around 5% higher.' | |
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| 2nd referendum on 10:41 - May 12 with 4126 views | BlueBadger |
| 2nd referendum on 09:56 - May 12 by gazzer1999 |
So are you saying being in the EU is the reason behind the rise of organised crime?
As we have not currently left that is how your view is coming across, and that the EU are doing nothing to stamp it out.
Perhaps individual countries should take more responsibility, rather than hiding behind a curtain of the EU which in your words is clearly failing. |
Perhaps we could combat organised, international crime by joining a multi-national organisation with arrangements in place for combatting cross-border crime? | |
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| 2nd referendum on 10:43 - May 12 with 4125 views | Swansea_Blue |
| 2nd referendum on 10:32 - May 12 by BanksterDebtSlave |
1. Free movement doesn't reduce wages of the low paid.....a hugely damaging lie
that people had witnessed in their daily lives for years, so easily dismissing the rest of the Remain narrative. |
Hardly. It’s questionable that it has an adverse effect. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/business-46918729
Possibly a small negative effect, but the work that’s looked into this stresses the difficulty of making such an assessment. This favourite Brexiteer ‘arguement’ also discounts any benefits for our citizens to more freely travel and work in other countries. And discounts the impact across the EU as a whole. Also discounts all the other benefits of free movement to individuals, organisation, companies and the public purse.
In short it’s typical spin, focussing on one small possibly negative element outside of all its context.
That’s not to say some people haven’t been badly affected. No system’s going to benefit everyone all of the time. But is FOM the cause, or other factors (such as company behaviours)? | |
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| 2nd referendum on 11:19 - May 12 with 4080 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| 2nd referendum on 10:39 - May 12 by BlueBadger |
The evidance was that there was a small effect that was either negated by changes to the minimum wage or minimal in comparison to other factors, such as the financial crisis.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-46918729
Interesting phrase here:
'When it talks about a small impact, it looked at the period from 1993 to 2017, over which time average earnings for the lowest-paid rose by 55%. Using economic modelling, they estimated that - if there hadn't been European migration into the UK - that rise would have been around 5% higher.' |
So they lied then ! | |
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| 2nd referendum on 11:28 - May 12 with 4061 views | gazzer1999 |
| 2nd referendum on 10:41 - May 12 by BlueBadger |
Perhaps we could combat organised, international crime by joining a multi-national organisation with arrangements in place for combatting cross-border crime? |
So are we not already doing this? | | | |
| 2nd referendum on 12:10 - May 12 with 4032 views | BlueBadger |
Strictly speaking both sides did, but Leave were by far the worst offenders claiming that a minimal difference with the main thing, remain on essentially, a technicality. | |
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| 2nd referendum on 12:10 - May 12 with 4031 views | BlueBadger |
| 2nd referendum on 11:28 - May 12 by gazzer1999 |
So are we not already doing this? |
We're currently in the process of leaving it. | |
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| 2nd referendum on 12:11 - May 12 with 4031 views | Pilgrimblue |
The trouble is who will decide the choices? It won't be a straight in or out!
If say it was May's deal or no deal or remain, then remain would win comfortably as the rest would be split. On the other hand if it was remain or Norway or leave with no deal then the remainers vote could be split and the Brexit support may get a larger vote.
The 2nd Referendum supporters are convinced they would get a majority otherwise they wouldn't be so vocal! If however the Country still voted leave then what!!
Labour has so far only voted on political grounds and that's the problem as neither of the main two parties could get a vote through Parliament. Ok Libdems are solid but they're very unlikely to have enough support.
Although I doubt a General Election would be called, it could be a very interesting outcome! For me MAY must go now as she has lost all credibility. |  | | |
| 2nd referendum on 12:18 - May 12 with 4025 views | Fixed_It |
| 2nd referendum on 10:22 - May 12 by gazzer1999 |
You do realise that when yo add in the tariffs that the EU levy on goods coming into the UK, which we collect then hand over to the EU to spend as it sees fit. The £350 million a week was untrue, the real figure is probably 3 to 4 times that amount.
"The lie" you refer to is was only a suggestion what we could do with the £350 million, pretty much what Labour says at every general election at how they will spend on the NHS, but in reality never do so.
Funny how the very tactic Labour drags out every time is the one that gets up the noses more than any. But as I pointed out earlier the reality with regards money is vastly higher than the £350 million. And we as consumers are paying the price with over the odds higher prices. |
Go to Switzerland. Look at their prices*. And then realise that Farage is talking out of his ar$e when he hails them as an example of what free trade could bring us.
*frighteningly high. |  |
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| 2nd referendum on 12:23 - May 12 with 4010 views | linhdi |
| 2nd referendum on 09:56 - May 12 by Rocky |
What crippled democracy was the lies told by the Brexiteers. |
Funded by the Russians. |  | | |
| 2nd referendum on 12:34 - May 12 with 3997 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| 2nd referendum on 12:15 - May 12 by Herbivore |
What is your understanding of EU citizens' rights when it comes to social housing? |
As pointed out the Brexit vote is essentially a rejection of globalism and as it is only partially informed ignores that immigration will continue regardless.
More people looking to rent limited stock inevitably increases pressure on social housing due to increased rents meaning more people being priced out and trying to get social housing. These may or may not be EU citizens.
Here's an uncomfortable read from a quick Google search......
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/why-mass-immigration-explains-the-housing-cr
.....I think you and others need to take off the rose tinted glasses and consider things from a more phenomenological stance rather than some supposed objective 'reality.' | |
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| 2nd referendum on 12:34 - May 12 with 3994 views | Lord_Lucan |
| 2nd referendum on 10:22 - May 12 by gazzer1999 |
You do realise that when yo add in the tariffs that the EU levy on goods coming into the UK, which we collect then hand over to the EU to spend as it sees fit. The £350 million a week was untrue, the real figure is probably 3 to 4 times that amount.
"The lie" you refer to is was only a suggestion what we could do with the £350 million, pretty much what Labour says at every general election at how they will spend on the NHS, but in reality never do so.
Funny how the very tactic Labour drags out every time is the one that gets up the noses more than any. But as I pointed out earlier the reality with regards money is vastly higher than the £350 million. And we as consumers are paying the price with over the odds higher prices. |
What are you actually talking about with regards to EU levy on goods into UK that we hand back again?
As for the 350m I agree it's a silly point really as the NHS thing just said "Could" as an example of what that money buys you. I voted remain but wasn't daft enough to accept that as a pledge, I don't think many were actually but it's a good stick to beat with.
Can you explain your Levy argument please, I don't get it. |  |
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| 2nd referendum on 12:35 - May 12 with 3989 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| 2nd referendum on 12:11 - May 12 by Pilgrimblue |
The trouble is who will decide the choices? It won't be a straight in or out!
If say it was May's deal or no deal or remain, then remain would win comfortably as the rest would be split. On the other hand if it was remain or Norway or leave with no deal then the remainers vote could be split and the Brexit support may get a larger vote.
The 2nd Referendum supporters are convinced they would get a majority otherwise they wouldn't be so vocal! If however the Country still voted leave then what!!
Labour has so far only voted on political grounds and that's the problem as neither of the main two parties could get a vote through Parliament. Ok Libdems are solid but they're very unlikely to have enough support.
Although I doubt a General Election would be called, it could be a very interesting outcome! For me MAY must go now as she has lost all credibility. |
It would have to be a 3 choice transferrable vote.....Remain would lose again. | |
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| 2nd referendum on 12:36 - May 12 with 3986 views | Herbivore |
| 2nd referendum on 12:34 - May 12 by BanksterDebtSlave |
As pointed out the Brexit vote is essentially a rejection of globalism and as it is only partially informed ignores that immigration will continue regardless.
More people looking to rent limited stock inevitably increases pressure on social housing due to increased rents meaning more people being priced out and trying to get social housing. These may or may not be EU citizens.
Here's an uncomfortable read from a quick Google search......
https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/03/why-mass-immigration-explains-the-housing-cr
.....I think you and others need to take off the rose tinted glasses and consider things from a more phenomenological stance rather than some supposed objective 'reality.' |
That's mostly waffle. The Spectator is essentially The Mail with the odd big word thrown in. |  |
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| 2nd referendum on 12:43 - May 12 with 3977 views | Pinewoodblue |
| 2nd referendum on 09:52 - May 12 by SteveMcCallsTeeth |
They will never allow another referendum. You cant dismiss 17 million votes just like that. It would cripple democracy in this country forever. |
The most compelling reason for not holding a second referendum has nothing to do with Brexit. The establishment fear a second independence referendum in Scotland. |  |
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