| 2nd referendum 09:14 - May 12 with 23809 views | gazzer1999 |
For all those that are seeking a 2nd referendum are you using the upcoming euro elections as just that?. It would be a good way for you to prove a point by not voting Labour or Conservative, and instead voting Libdems as they are the only party that have said they want to stay in the EU and have a clear way forward.
On the other hand if the Brexit Party get the most votes will they accept that they could not win a 2nd referendum? |  | | |  |
| 2nd referendum on 19:30 - May 12 with 4413 views | noggin |
| 2nd referendum on 18:50 - May 12 by bluejacko |
That’s the second time you have said that to one of my posts! Can I refer you to my post on page 4 at 15.00. You said the same about the Irish border please read the link and see if politicians don’t get involved it can be sorted. But that would not suit the agenda on here, it is all about what we can’t do not what we can! |
Go on then, enlighten me about the future under wto rules, post brexit. If it's so simple it won't take you long. |  |
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| 2nd referendum on 19:33 - May 12 with 4407 views | gordon |
| 2nd referendum on 16:14 - May 12 by Lord_Lucan |
But these are tariffs previously kept by HMRC and it is trade generated by the success of UK business. We already pay a fee for being part of EU, what is the difference between giving EU 80% of import duty and some of the Vat we collect? |
This is effectively the only way a common external tariff can work - it would be absurd if tariffs were kept by the country where goods entered the EU. Those countries with the biggest ports would get rich at the expense of the landlocked central European member states pretty quickly! |  | | |
| 2nd referendum on 20:03 - May 12 with 4366 views | Lord_Lucan |
| 2nd referendum on 19:19 - May 12 by gazzer1999 |
But has it made you think there is always 2 sides of a story?
No idea who herbs is. |
Bankers is on your side. |  |
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| 2nd referendum on 20:38 - May 12 with 4337 views | Lord_Lucan |
| 2nd referendum on 19:33 - May 12 by gordon |
This is effectively the only way a common external tariff can work - it would be absurd if tariffs were kept by the country where goods entered the EU. Those countries with the biggest ports would get rich at the expense of the landlocked central European member states pretty quickly! |
There is no reason why the country of destination couldn't issue the duty bill - if they don't already that is. [Post edited 12 May 2019 20:41]
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| 2nd referendum on 20:43 - May 12 with 4327 views | gordon |
| 2nd referendum on 20:38 - May 12 by Lord_Lucan |
There is no reason why the country of destination couldn't issue the duty bill - if they don't already that is. [Post edited 12 May 2019 20:41]
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How would you verify which country actually was the destination if you don't have internal borders within the EU? [Post edited 12 May 2019 20:50]
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| 2nd referendum on 20:56 - May 12 with 4316 views | bluejacko |
| 2nd referendum on 19:30 - May 12 by noggin |
Go on then, enlighten me about the future under wto rules, post brexit. If it's so simple it won't take you long. |
Did you actually read the said link! I am not claiming to have all the answers but if you bother to look there is actually people who do have some of the answers. Now read the link and then come back to me why it would not work. |  | | |
| 2nd referendum on 21:28 - May 12 with 4295 views | Lord_Lucan |
| 2nd referendum on 20:43 - May 12 by gordon |
How would you verify which country actually was the destination if you don't have internal borders within the EU? [Post edited 12 May 2019 20:50]
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I'm not sure I get what you mean. A container destined for a company in Austria is clearly invoiced and delivered to the company in Austria even though it enters Hamburg. | |
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| 2nd referendum on 22:15 - May 12 with 4274 views | WeWereZombies |
| 2nd referendum on 21:28 - May 12 by Lord_Lucan |
I'm not sure I get what you mean. A container destined for a company in Austria is clearly invoiced and delivered to the company in Austria even though it enters Hamburg. |
Yes, but duties have to paid at the port of entry, i.e. Hamburg. If there were no 'frictionless ' borders then another set of duties (export from Germany, import to Austria) would occur somewhere a little way south of Munich. |  |
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| 2nd referendum on 22:23 - May 12 with 4270 views | Lord_Lucan |
| 2nd referendum on 22:15 - May 12 by WeWereZombies |
Yes, but duties have to paid at the port of entry, i.e. Hamburg. If there were no 'frictionless ' borders then another set of duties (export from Germany, import to Austria) would occur somewhere a little way south of Munich. |
Is duty paid at the port of entry? I presume VAT is but I don't know about duty. | |
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| 2nd referendum on 22:46 - May 12 with 4252 views | gordon |
| 2nd referendum on 21:28 - May 12 by Lord_Lucan |
I'm not sure I get what you mean. A container destined for a company in Austria is clearly invoiced and delivered to the company in Austria even though it enters Hamburg. |
And then the company in Austria can distribute the parts to its retail operations in other countries within the EU etc. The duty is paid at the point of entry. Lots of (particularly perishable goods) are imported into the EU when the final destination is unknown, think of the cut flowers in the Netherlands. The point of the customs union is that paying duty once at the point of entry removes all the administration associated with goods crossing borders within the EU. | | | |
| 2nd referendum on 00:04 - May 13 with 4215 views | Lord_Lucan |
| 2nd referendum on 22:46 - May 12 by gordon |
And then the company in Austria can distribute the parts to its retail operations in other countries within the EU etc. The duty is paid at the point of entry. Lots of (particularly perishable goods) are imported into the EU when the final destination is unknown, think of the cut flowers in the Netherlands. The point of the customs union is that paying duty once at the point of entry removes all the administration associated with goods crossing borders within the EU. |
The company in Austria could move their goods freely anyway as we all know there is no duty between European countries but we are talking about import duty for goods being bought in by the importer in a certain country and that country is losing out on paid duty (tax). I buy goods from Italy and Germany which are obviously duty free because duty has already been paid by the company who purchased the goods initially from outside the EU.
I genuinely didn't realise (or really consider) the situation for companies within mainland Europe. Initially I was surprised to say the least that the EU take 80% of the duty invoiced by HMRC but for mainland Europe it is even more unfair as Germany, Belgium, Holland and Spain will be taking 20% creme from landlocked EU countries.
There is no reason why import duty couldn't be paid by the importer to the exchequer of their own government and the fact that the EU is taking 80% of all import duty is the act of a Federal European Union rather than a union of sovereign States.
It is wrong. | |
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| 2nd referendum on 06:26 - May 13 with 4169 views | gordon |
| 2nd referendum on 00:04 - May 13 by Lord_Lucan |
The company in Austria could move their goods freely anyway as we all know there is no duty between European countries but we are talking about import duty for goods being bought in by the importer in a certain country and that country is losing out on paid duty (tax). I buy goods from Italy and Germany which are obviously duty free because duty has already been paid by the company who purchased the goods initially from outside the EU.
I genuinely didn't realise (or really consider) the situation for companies within mainland Europe. Initially I was surprised to say the least that the EU take 80% of the duty invoiced by HMRC but for mainland Europe it is even more unfair as Germany, Belgium, Holland and Spain will be taking 20% creme from landlocked EU countries.
There is no reason why import duty couldn't be paid by the importer to the exchequer of their own government and the fact that the EU is taking 80% of all import duty is the act of a Federal European Union rather than a union of sovereign States.
It is wrong. |
What you're suggesting is to not have a customs union. A common external tariff regime is just how a customs union works.
If import duties went to the importing country there would be massive unecessary competition between France, Belgium, Denmark etc. to encourage 'import' businesses.
Or, if import duties were to be paid by the country where the product was to be consumed then each banana, litre of palm oil, or iPhone that is imported would have to be allocated to a specific country before it arrived, causing lodds of bureaucracy and making supply chains less efficient.
The 20% 'creme' is to cover the cost of collecting the tariff. | | | |
| 2nd referendum on 07:12 - May 13 with 4139 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| 2nd referendum on 06:26 - May 13 by gordon |
What you're suggesting is to not have a customs union. A common external tariff regime is just how a customs union works.
If import duties went to the importing country there would be massive unecessary competition between France, Belgium, Denmark etc. to encourage 'import' businesses.
Or, if import duties were to be paid by the country where the product was to be consumed then each banana, litre of palm oil, or iPhone that is imported would have to be allocated to a specific country before it arrived, causing lodds of bureaucracy and making supply chains less efficient.
The 20% 'creme' is to cover the cost of collecting the tariff. |
Surely a customs' union is just the setting of common tarrif rates.
"Or, if import duties were to be paid by the country where the product was to be consumed then each banana, litre of palm oil, or iPhone that is imported would have to be allocated to a specific country before it arrived, causing lodds of bureaucracy and making supply chains less efficient."
....surely not that difficult in this technical age! It would also perhaps discourage unnecessary over ordering and warehousing of stock, an environmental plus.
Edit ......maybe Germany, France and UK should divi out the profits from exports too! (In fact let's form workers' co ops and do this !) [Post edited 13 May 2019 7:19]
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| 2nd referendum on 07:48 - May 13 with 4119 views | gordon |
| 2nd referendum on 07:12 - May 13 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Surely a customs' union is just the setting of common tarrif rates.
"Or, if import duties were to be paid by the country where the product was to be consumed then each banana, litre of palm oil, or iPhone that is imported would have to be allocated to a specific country before it arrived, causing lodds of bureaucracy and making supply chains less efficient."
....surely not that difficult in this technical age! It would also perhaps discourage unnecessary over ordering and warehousing of stock, an environmental plus.
Edit ......maybe Germany, France and UK should divi out the profits from exports too! (In fact let's form workers' co ops and do this !) [Post edited 13 May 2019 7:19]
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'Not that difficult to do in this technical age...'
This is incorrect, but anyway why on earth would anyone want to stop the customs union? Because after 61 years of everyone in the EU pretty much agreeing it was a brilliant idea, it being replicated across the world, vastly reducing bureaucracy, some people on an Internet football forum have spotted a fatal flaw?
Quick, let's send our findings to the Commission, this could change everything. | | | |
| 2nd referendum on 08:02 - May 13 with 4110 views | Leaky |
| 2nd referendum on 10:12 - May 12 by itfc_bucks |
Name those remain lies.
Let's see if they were quite as monumental as, say 350m per week for the NHS. |
It actually said £350m COULD be spent on the NHS. Key word is could |  | | |
| 2nd referendum on 08:06 - May 13 with 4108 views | m14_blue |
| 2nd referendum on 08:02 - May 13 by Leaky |
It actually said £350m COULD be spent on the NHS. Key word is could |
Could you point me to where on the bus it said the word could?
You know, the word you’ve put in CAPITAL LETTERS because it’s so important.... | | | |
| 2nd referendum on 08:06 - May 13 with 4108 views | Darth_Koont |
| 2nd referendum on 07:48 - May 13 by gordon |
'Not that difficult to do in this technical age...'
This is incorrect, but anyway why on earth would anyone want to stop the customs union? Because after 61 years of everyone in the EU pretty much agreeing it was a brilliant idea, it being replicated across the world, vastly reducing bureaucracy, some people on an Internet football forum have spotted a fatal flaw?
Quick, let's send our findings to the Commission, this could change everything. |
Agreed.
This also isn't even about tariffs or arranging free trade agreements per se. The real value of these common streamlined processes is pretty much about how a lot of industries and just-in-time logistics operate and make a profit.
Of course, many UK-based businesses reliant on import and export to the EU will adapt and survive. But few will thrive. And, in enough cases to make a serious dent in our economy, some will just up sticks and move these operations to the EU or elsewhere.
Politically or even macro-economically it sounds OK to talk about overcoming the challenges and reaping rewards but the reality is a lot of businesses having to absorb these costs and risks into their everyday business. It just doesn't make any real sense as a way forward. |  |
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| 2nd referendum on 08:34 - May 13 with 4086 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| 2nd referendum on 07:48 - May 13 by gordon |
'Not that difficult to do in this technical age...'
This is incorrect, but anyway why on earth would anyone want to stop the customs union? Because after 61 years of everyone in the EU pretty much agreeing it was a brilliant idea, it being replicated across the world, vastly reducing bureaucracy, some people on an Internet football forum have spotted a fatal flaw?
Quick, let's send our findings to the Commission, this could change everything. |
I don't think I have said a customs union is a bad idea.....although like most on here I generally wing it as far as macro economics are concerned. However, issues such as this where countries are not directly benefitting from tariffs on imports to be consumed there, are fuel to the superstate v nation state argument which is too often dismissed as the ramblings of the racist uneducated and swatted away as a non point rather than properly engaged with.
Edit....if the debate was moved to the distribution of wealth more generally and whether the EU should considerably reform itself to enable this, rather than appearing extremely pro corporate private wealth then this whole issue may have been less divisive.....maybe Jezza's on to something! [Post edited 13 May 2019 8:38]
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| 2nd referendum on 08:52 - May 13 with 4073 views | Darth_Koont |
| 2nd referendum on 08:34 - May 13 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I don't think I have said a customs union is a bad idea.....although like most on here I generally wing it as far as macro economics are concerned. However, issues such as this where countries are not directly benefitting from tariffs on imports to be consumed there, are fuel to the superstate v nation state argument which is too often dismissed as the ramblings of the racist uneducated and swatted away as a non point rather than properly engaged with.
Edit....if the debate was moved to the distribution of wealth more generally and whether the EU should considerably reform itself to enable this, rather than appearing extremely pro corporate private wealth then this whole issue may have been less divisive.....maybe Jezza's on to something! [Post edited 13 May 2019 8:38]
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Re: your second para, I find it troubling that you blithely assume that it's the EU that needs to reform to allow a redistribution of wealth.
They've done more for that than the UK government itself has since a post-War purple patch where it took a monumental sacrifice from the people to actually get some genuine reform. | |
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| 2nd referendum on 09:02 - May 13 with 4061 views | gordon |
| 2nd referendum on 08:34 - May 13 by BanksterDebtSlave |
I don't think I have said a customs union is a bad idea.....although like most on here I generally wing it as far as macro economics are concerned. However, issues such as this where countries are not directly benefitting from tariffs on imports to be consumed there, are fuel to the superstate v nation state argument which is too often dismissed as the ramblings of the racist uneducated and swatted away as a non point rather than properly engaged with.
Edit....if the debate was moved to the distribution of wealth more generally and whether the EU should considerably reform itself to enable this, rather than appearing extremely pro corporate private wealth then this whole issue may have been less divisive.....maybe Jezza's on to something! [Post edited 13 May 2019 8:38]
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You know the EU is redistributive on a pretty significant scale, don't you? That's why the UK contributes more than it gets back in £, and why poorer regions of the UK benefit more from membership than rich ones. | | | |
| 2nd referendum on 09:09 - May 13 with 4058 views | Lord_Lucan |
| 2nd referendum on 06:26 - May 13 by gordon |
What you're suggesting is to not have a customs union. A common external tariff regime is just how a customs union works.
If import duties went to the importing country there would be massive unecessary competition between France, Belgium, Denmark etc. to encourage 'import' businesses.
Or, if import duties were to be paid by the country where the product was to be consumed then each banana, litre of palm oil, or iPhone that is imported would have to be allocated to a specific country before it arrived, causing lodds of bureaucracy and making supply chains less efficient.
The 20% 'creme' is to cover the cost of collecting the tariff. |
The point of the customs union is to allow free trade between member states. It is there to enable me to export to European countries and import from European countries with minimal paperwork where no duty or VAT is needed to be considered.
France, Belgium, Denmark etc are not importing the goods, it is companies within the countries that are importing them. These companies are in competition already with similar companies in neighbouring EU countries but mainly the goods entering Austria are sold in Austria mainly because of market demand and logistical issues. If Fritzl Clothing Ltd are importing tonnes of lederhosens from China they aren't going to sell many in France, if however Fritzl Clothing are also selling tonnes of berets to France it is because they are a well oiled company who have a great business and can supply a better quality Beret than some French companies and thus the government in the country they operate from should collect the import duty. Europe is not a country (yet) it is a load of countries who have agreed their businesses can sell goods to fellow EU countries with no duty or VAT between each other and that they all meet the same standards.
Your third paragraph doesn't make much sense to me and I never suggested that the import duty is to be paid to the country where the goods are eventually consumed but in the country where the importing company operates from. iPhones are such are irrelevant as Apple PLC with have separate companies in all EU countries I would imagine. | |
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| 2nd referendum on 09:24 - May 13 with 4048 views | No9 |
Anyone with any sense will vote for a Pro EU party, at least they will go to the European parliament with the UK's interests at heart unlike the anti Eu lot that go and don't vote then complain at the result.
After yesterday's performance I would not think anyone in their right mind would vote for (I have no manifesto) Mr Farage | | | |
| 2nd referendum on 09:28 - May 13 with 4045 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| 2nd referendum on 08:52 - May 13 by Darth_Koont |
Re: your second para, I find it troubling that you blithely assume that it's the EU that needs to reform to allow a redistribution of wealth.
They've done more for that than the UK government itself has since a post-War purple patch where it took a monumental sacrifice from the people to actually get some genuine reform. |
Blithely nothing! Other reforms would also be required.....I like how you blithely assumed stuff there! | |
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| 2nd referendum on 09:32 - May 13 with 4042 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| 2nd referendum on 09:02 - May 13 by gordon |
You know the EU is redistributive on a pretty significant scale, don't you? That's why the UK contributes more than it gets back in £, and why poorer regions of the UK benefit more from membership than rich ones. |
To a degree, but significant?.....also, go tell a Greek! | |
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| 2nd referendum on 10:10 - May 13 with 4013 views | Darth_Koont |
| 2nd referendum on 09:32 - May 13 by BanksterDebtSlave |
To a degree, but significant?.....also, go tell a Greek! |
Well, that's the Eurozone and not the EU. And a particular set of rules and commitments the Greek government basically signed up to through fraud. In the aftermath, I think the Greek population got better consideration and handling as part of the EU than out of it.
We're talking about the EU and our relationship to it. This idea that it's a block to wealth redistribution is loony. That's pretty much the aim and result of the four freedoms. | |
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