| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 20:27 - May 13 with 2654 views | caught-in-limbo |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 18:30 - May 13 by StokieBlue |
That's not evidence.
Not that you'll accept that. Specifics are key, you love to work in the generals.
SB |
Of course it's not evidence. It just shows that "false flags" are not always way-out conspiracy theories - it's a tactic used by countries (including nice western ones) to initiate wars.
In a way, western instigated false flags go hand in hand with your much trumpeted "Occam's razor": It looks like Iran did it, we think they did it, we thought they'd do it, it's the sort of thing they'd do, they've been accused of doing stuff like it before, they've got the necessary infrastructure/equipment to do it and all our anti-Iranian regime friends say they did it, so they must have done it. [Post edited 13 May 2019 20:29]
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| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 20:29 - May 13 with 2653 views | caught-in-limbo |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 15:43 - May 13 by Guthrum |
Altho nations usually lose heavily from wars. |
Bankers rarely do though. | |
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| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 20:32 - May 13 with 2641 views | BackToRussia |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 20:29 - May 13 by caught-in-limbo |
Bankers rarely do though. |
What about oil refiners and arms manufacturers? |  |
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| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 20:52 - May 13 with 2624 views | caught-in-limbo |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 20:32 - May 13 by BackToRussia |
What about oil refiners and arms manufacturers? |
Hey, it looks like you're going down the conspiracy theory path there. Why would any groups who are involved in arms manufacturing, oil refining and banking want to provoke a war? They already have enough money. Why would they want more? More to the point, all evidence throughout history points to the loser starting the war and the good guy Bankers, arms makers and oil men unfortunately having to share the spoils of victory... again.
#UnbelievableGeoff | |
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| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 20:59 - May 13 with 2616 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 14:16 - May 13 by factual_blue |
It was Churchill's decision to switch the Royal Navy to oil-fired ships, therby giving the Middle East stratwgic importance. |
Thank you Professor F J Lewis, for that insight. But of course, the Anglo-German rivalry which was the driving force behind Churchill's pre-WW1 Naval reforms was triggered by the accession of Bismark in the 19th century and the more recent enlarging of the Kiel Canal, at the bottom of which they found a drawing of a hideous sea creature and a note from Napoleon saying "Cest toi, qui est" |  |
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| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 21:15 - May 13 with 2604 views | Bluesquid |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 18:30 - May 13 by StokieBlue |
That's not evidence.
Not that you'll accept that. Specifics are key, you love to work in the generals.
SB |
Well according to Wikipedia the US financed a false flag attack on Iranian soil during the US backed coup in 1953.
"Kermit Roosevelt hired a crowd of Iranian citizens to act as a riotous mob in Tehran. For a sum of $50,000, the crowd was instructed to attack mosques and images of the Shah under the facade of supporting Mossadeq to in order to link the leader to anti-Islamic and communist groups." |  | | |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 21:17 - May 13 with 2601 views | BackToRussia |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 21:15 - May 13 by Bluesquid |
Well according to Wikipedia the US financed a false flag attack on Iranian soil during the US backed coup in 1953.
"Kermit Roosevelt hired a crowd of Iranian citizens to act as a riotous mob in Tehran. For a sum of $50,000, the crowd was instructed to attack mosques and images of the Shah under the facade of supporting Mossadeq to in order to link the leader to anti-Islamic and communist groups." |
Well done, you've blown Stokie up. | |
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| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 21:25 - May 13 with 2587 views | WeWereZombies |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 20:59 - May 13 by Ewan_Oozami |
Thank you Professor F J Lewis, for that insight. But of course, the Anglo-German rivalry which was the driving force behind Churchill's pre-WW1 Naval reforms was triggered by the accession of Bismark in the 19th century and the more recent enlarging of the Kiel Canal, at the bottom of which they found a drawing of a hideous sea creature and a note from Napoleon saying "Cest toi, qui est" |
If we are going to trace this back to Bismarck then we have to look at the struggles in Germany before it became a unified nation and throw the blame on the collapse of the Holy Roman Empire. |  |
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| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 21:59 - May 13 with 2561 views | caught-in-limbo |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 21:15 - May 13 by Bluesquid |
Well according to Wikipedia the US financed a false flag attack on Iranian soil during the US backed coup in 1953.
"Kermit Roosevelt hired a crowd of Iranian citizens to act as a riotous mob in Tehran. For a sum of $50,000, the crowd was instructed to attack mosques and images of the Shah under the facade of supporting Mossadeq to in order to link the leader to anti-Islamic and communist groups." |
At the time, in 1953, backed up with months of western press propaganda, the events would have failed Occam's razor. Furthermore, any evidence at the time implicating the West would have been dismissed as Iranian propaganda so irrespective of the actual truth, you would have been peddling a baseless and dangerous conspiracy theory.
#RespectYourGloriousLeader
#BelieveYourNationBroadcaster
#ApplyOccamsRazor
#TheyStartedIt | |
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| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 23:08 - May 13 with 2521 views | StokieBlue |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 21:17 - May 13 by BackToRussia |
Well done, you've blown Stokie up. |
I don't even know what that is supposed to mean but I'm glad that something that happened 70 years ago is enough evidence for many to draw conclusions in modern times.
The US is far from perfect, very far from perfect but the anti-US rhetoric from some members of this board over the past few years has strayed towards xenophobia.
It's often based on very flimsy reasoning or historical actions with no modern evidence assuming that's it's based on anything at all.
SB [Post edited 13 May 2019 23:13]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 23:10 - May 13 with 2519 views | StokieBlue |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 20:27 - May 13 by caught-in-limbo |
Of course it's not evidence. It just shows that "false flags" are not always way-out conspiracy theories - it's a tactic used by countries (including nice western ones) to initiate wars.
In a way, western instigated false flags go hand in hand with your much trumpeted "Occam's razor": It looks like Iran did it, we think they did it, we thought they'd do it, it's the sort of thing they'd do, they've been accused of doing stuff like it before, they've got the necessary infrastructure/equipment to do it and all our anti-Iranian regime friends say they did it, so they must have done it. [Post edited 13 May 2019 20:29]
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They don't go hand in hand with Occam's razor. They are the exact opposite of it given they require a complicated explanation and clearly aren't the simplest conclusion.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 07:38 - May 14 with 2459 views | WeWereZombies |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 23:10 - May 13 by StokieBlue |
They don't go hand in hand with Occam's razor. They are the exact opposite of it given they require a complicated explanation and clearly aren't the simplest conclusion.
SB |
I don't quite see it like that, the guidance 'not to multiply entities beyond necessity' can also be used to deal with complex situations (by blowing away the chaff and concentrating on the core issues, even if they are many). Hence the suitability as a methodology in 'The Name of the Rose' when our medieval detective had not one, but a number of murders to solve and all against a background of theological intrigue. | |
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| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 08:02 - May 14 with 2449 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
Stokie are you applying the same level of scepticism to the 'it's Iran' story as the 'false flag' one? |  |
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| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 08:48 - May 14 with 2443 views | crunchie1978 |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 15:43 - May 13 by Guthrum |
Altho nations usually lose heavily from wars. |
I'm not talking about nations.....INDIVIDUALS | | | |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 08:59 - May 14 with 2439 views | crunchie1978 |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 20:52 - May 13 by caught-in-limbo |
Hey, it looks like you're going down the conspiracy theory path there. Why would any groups who are involved in arms manufacturing, oil refining and banking want to provoke a war? They already have enough money. Why would they want more? More to the point, all evidence throughout history points to the loser starting the war and the good guy Bankers, arms makers and oil men unfortunately having to share the spoils of victory... again.
#UnbelievableGeoff |
How on earth is it conspiracy theory?
Arms manufacturers are real!
Their shareholders are real!
And with regards to sharing the spoils of war.....tax avoidance is real! | | | |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 09:08 - May 14 with 2438 views | StokieBlue |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 08:02 - May 14 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Stokie are you applying the same level of scepticism to the 'it's Iran' story as the 'false flag' one? |
I've not attributed blame to anyone as the facts are
not known (or weren't yesterday, I've not checked today).
That is what rankles about numerous posters basically saying it was the US, especially as it's the most complex of the possible scenarios unless you're a conspiracy theorist. They may well be right but the certainty based on nothing is simple anti-US bias.
It goes totally unchallenged on here, whereas when Russia (for example, there are others) are fingered for attacks on the UK and elsewhere the same posters first cry is "where is the evidence".
It's a ridiculous.
SB [Post edited 14 May 2019 9:14]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 09:24 - May 14 with 2421 views | BackToRussia |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 23:08 - May 13 by StokieBlue |
I don't even know what that is supposed to mean but I'm glad that something that happened 70 years ago is enough evidence for many to draw conclusions in modern times.
The US is far from perfect, very far from perfect but the anti-US rhetoric from some members of this board over the past few years has strayed towards xenophobia.
It's often based on very flimsy reasoning or historical actions with no modern evidence assuming that's it's based on anything at all.
SB [Post edited 13 May 2019 23:13]
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Yes it's not like the US to enter wars under false or pretended pretexts is it? They're actually a rational, ethical, democratic nation securing an unbroken peace in the world. I for one am glad they're around looking out for me and you.
I'm glad I've stopped being so ideological and seen reality, at last.
Thanks Stokie. | |
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| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 09:27 - May 14 with 2419 views | StokieBlue |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 09:24 - May 14 by BackToRussia |
Yes it's not like the US to enter wars under false or pretended pretexts is it? They're actually a rational, ethical, democratic nation securing an unbroken peace in the world. I for one am glad they're around looking out for me and you.
I'm glad I've stopped being so ideological and seen reality, at last.
Thanks Stokie. |
Not what I said at all but that's not surprising.
It's always best to reply with sarcasm than actually think about the issue raised.
SB [Post edited 14 May 2019 9:28]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 09:48 - May 14 with 2409 views | caught-in-limbo |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 08:59 - May 14 by crunchie1978 |
How on earth is it conspiracy theory?
Arms manufacturers are real!
Their shareholders are real!
And with regards to sharing the spoils of war.....tax avoidance is real! |
My post was marinated in sarcasm. Then baked in the oven at Sarcasm mark 8 and then served with a side salad of sarcasm which was dressed with sarcasm sauce. | |
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| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 10:33 - May 15 with 2331 views | No9 |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 13:11 - May 13 by homer_123 |
No one ever goes to war over oil.....ohhhhh |
They are going to war over ideology are they not?
It does however bring into question American claims they are self sufficient in oil. | | | |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 10:37 - May 15 with 2322 views | No9 |
& it looks like the UK wants to get involved after Mr Hunt said the UK should up its defence spending to stand by it aly, the US | | | |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 10:40 - May 15 with 2318 views | caught-in-limbo |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 10:33 - May 15 by No9 |
They are going to war over ideology are they not?
It does however bring into question American claims they are self sufficient in oil. |
"It does however bring into question American claims they are self sufficient in oil."
No it doesn't. | |
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| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 10:47 - May 15 with 2307 views | No9 |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 10:40 - May 15 by caught-in-limbo |
"It does however bring into question American claims they are self sufficient in oil."
No it doesn't. |
Why? | | | |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 11:03 - May 15 with 2298 views | caught-in-limbo |
| If you aren't somewhat concerned about this on 10:47 - May 15 by No9 |
Why? |
A country doesn't just start a war over oil because they haven't got enough for themselves. | |
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