| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good 10:09 - May 20 with 1912 views | Steve_M |
The relentless pursuit of money above all else for 25 years has ruined the structure of the game and the effects of that are obvious at levels further down.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2019/may/19/manchester-city-sky-blue-smashi
I'm not even sure whether the big clubs fecking off to their European Superleague will make a difference any longer but it's going to happen at some point. |  |
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| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 10:10 - May 20 with 1893 views | vilanovablue |
It'll just end up perpetuating the problem and we'll end heading the way of Scottish football which is thoroughly depressing... |  | | |
| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 10:32 - May 20 with 1818 views | Pendejo |
| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 10:10 - May 20 by vilanovablue |
It'll just end up perpetuating the problem and we'll end heading the way of Scottish football which is thoroughly depressing... |
Hold on there, let Massive win all 4 next season before declaring English football to be the same as Scottish football.
Teams have had dominance over the years, their dominance was waned and other clubs have risen.
City aren't boring yet. Not in the same way Liverpool and United were. |  |
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| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 10:36 - May 20 with 1805 views | SomethingBlue |
I was there on Saturday too and, as Wilson says, watching the City fans rise to greet each goal like they'd just gone 2-0 up against Huddersfield on a damp November evening was really quite depressing. |  |
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| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 10:38 - May 20 with 1782 views | iamipswich |
Haven't read the article so wouldn't be surprised if it's mentioned but I saw that for the first time, all of the top 5 European leagues were retained this year which is quite amazing. Demonstrates how the balance has tipped so in favour of the richest clubs. |  |
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| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 10:44 - May 20 with 1749 views | ITFC_Forever |
It's almost like everyone has seen this coming for years.... |  |
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| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 10:45 - May 20 with 1741 views | Pendejo |
| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 10:36 - May 20 by SomethingBlue |
I was there on Saturday too and, as Wilson says, watching the City fans rise to greet each goal like they'd just gone 2-0 up against Huddersfield on a damp November evening was really quite depressing. |
Why is it depressing for fans to celebrate their teams goals?
I don't recall Manure's fans celebrating goal 9 any more or less than goal 1 many years ago, nor do I recall celebrating goal 6 against them any more or less than goal 1.
Whatever they are now they've got a long way to go to rival the achievements of Liverpool and United. I would imagine that every goal and every trophy will be celebrated until they've won the Champions League 7 times and achieve 20 Premier League Championships... that's a long way off, so much could happen to stop it. | |
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| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 10:48 - May 20 with 1725 views | SomethingBlue |
| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 10:45 - May 20 by Pendejo |
Why is it depressing for fans to celebrate their teams goals?
I don't recall Manure's fans celebrating goal 9 any more or less than goal 1 many years ago, nor do I recall celebrating goal 6 against them any more or less than goal 1.
Whatever they are now they've got a long way to go to rival the achievements of Liverpool and United. I would imagine that every goal and every trophy will be celebrated until they've won the Champions League 7 times and achieve 20 Premier League Championships... that's a long way off, so much could happen to stop it. |
You've missed my point — which is that, ideally, seeing your side a goal in a cup final should drive you wild with excitement rather than something akin to duty. | |
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| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 10:50 - May 20 with 1709 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 10:36 - May 20 by SomethingBlue |
I was there on Saturday too and, as Wilson says, watching the City fans rise to greet each goal like they'd just gone 2-0 up against Huddersfield on a damp November evening was really quite depressing. |
I read the City forums a few months back and found a wonderful thread that was a perfect blend of four types of fans. The fans that still go and have been going for decades, the die hard fans now priced out, the domestic fans who have arrived recently on the scene and the overseas fans who had never been to a game.
If I can find it again I'll post the link.
It was absolutely wonderful but tragic at the same time.
Essentially you had fans that were there in 1999 when they beat Gillingham who still go now and say that those were the days. When Aguero won them the title they felt something they never expected to feel and it was incredible but now they are actually largely bored. They don't actually feel like it's 'their' club any more. One fan compared it to someone he knew who was a Wimbledon fan who decided to follow MK Dons.
Then there are those fans that just cannot afford to go now because they can't afford the prices. Ones that used to travel 200 miles to a home game every other weekend but now with rising ticket prices, due to their success, it's no longer viable financially and most of these people had given up not entirely because of money but in part also because it didn't feel like City any more.
Then you had the people that had supported Stockport and Macclesfield or not been into football and they absolutely loved the success they were having, because they could suddenly go and see the best footballers in the world on their door step and other City fans were peeved as to why these 'plastics' hadn't just followed United.
Then there were the Asian and American fans declaring their love for City, who couldn't tell you who Summerbee, Kinkladze or Goater were. Just that they loved winning now.
It was actually sad to read so much of it. The fans who had been there for generations felt no identity with the club any more once the novelty had worn off and the past successes were special because you lived for those moments never knowing when the next one would come. Fans talked of taking their kids to finals and promotion deciders nervous because this might be the only chance they ever had of sharing that.
Now they know the next one will come along next season and all the magic has gone. So the club is increasingly represented by people who didn't even know they existed 10-15 years back.
Football to me is about those moments of joy and if they are constant they become diluted.
Look at the scenes at Portman Road when Priskin scored to only put us ahead in the second cup competition when we knew we'd probably still not advance. No fan should ever be at the premier cup competition, going ahead and not losing the plot.
But those people who would have lost the plot are either no longer there or cannot gather the enthusiasm to celebrate something now so normal and expected. | |
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| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 10:52 - May 20 with 1693 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 10:45 - May 20 by Pendejo |
Why is it depressing for fans to celebrate their teams goals?
I don't recall Manure's fans celebrating goal 9 any more or less than goal 1 many years ago, nor do I recall celebrating goal 6 against them any more or less than goal 1.
Whatever they are now they've got a long way to go to rival the achievements of Liverpool and United. I would imagine that every goal and every trophy will be celebrated until they've won the Champions League 7 times and achieve 20 Premier League Championships... that's a long way off, so much could happen to stop it. |
By that time there won't be a genuine fan left, born from City fan, born from City fan.
They'd have all fallen out of love. It'll only be the overseas fans who want bragging rights at the water cooler that even bother checking what is happening.
A team that pretty much sold 40,000 tickets in the third division now struggles to sell 55,000 against Europe's elite.
That tells you all you need to know about how the diehards can barely identify with their team now. | |
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| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 10:57 - May 20 with 1654 views | DanTheMan |
As soon as the second goal went in, I just turned it off. It wasn't going to be fun to watch a team just getting utterly destroyed.
Honestly cannot wait until they go off into a super league. Like you, no idea if it's too late to help but at least everyone else can have their fun then. |  |
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| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 10:59 - May 20 with 1649 views | Steve_M |
| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 10:50 - May 20 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
I read the City forums a few months back and found a wonderful thread that was a perfect blend of four types of fans. The fans that still go and have been going for decades, the die hard fans now priced out, the domestic fans who have arrived recently on the scene and the overseas fans who had never been to a game.
If I can find it again I'll post the link.
It was absolutely wonderful but tragic at the same time.
Essentially you had fans that were there in 1999 when they beat Gillingham who still go now and say that those were the days. When Aguero won them the title they felt something they never expected to feel and it was incredible but now they are actually largely bored. They don't actually feel like it's 'their' club any more. One fan compared it to someone he knew who was a Wimbledon fan who decided to follow MK Dons.
Then there are those fans that just cannot afford to go now because they can't afford the prices. Ones that used to travel 200 miles to a home game every other weekend but now with rising ticket prices, due to their success, it's no longer viable financially and most of these people had given up not entirely because of money but in part also because it didn't feel like City any more.
Then you had the people that had supported Stockport and Macclesfield or not been into football and they absolutely loved the success they were having, because they could suddenly go and see the best footballers in the world on their door step and other City fans were peeved as to why these 'plastics' hadn't just followed United.
Then there were the Asian and American fans declaring their love for City, who couldn't tell you who Summerbee, Kinkladze or Goater were. Just that they loved winning now.
It was actually sad to read so much of it. The fans who had been there for generations felt no identity with the club any more once the novelty had worn off and the past successes were special because you lived for those moments never knowing when the next one would come. Fans talked of taking their kids to finals and promotion deciders nervous because this might be the only chance they ever had of sharing that.
Now they know the next one will come along next season and all the magic has gone. So the club is increasingly represented by people who didn't even know they existed 10-15 years back.
Football to me is about those moments of joy and if they are constant they become diluted.
Look at the scenes at Portman Road when Priskin scored to only put us ahead in the second cup competition when we knew we'd probably still not advance. No fan should ever be at the premier cup competition, going ahead and not losing the plot.
But those people who would have lost the plot are either no longer there or cannot gather the enthusiasm to celebrate something now so normal and expected. |
I'm quite sure that some of the older City fans who went through the season in the third division, decades without a trophy know they've become an awful lot like what they used to mock their Manchester neighbours for. | |
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| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 11:02 - May 20 with 1636 views | Pendejo |
| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 10:48 - May 20 by SomethingBlue |
You've missed my point — which is that, ideally, seeing your side a goal in a cup final should drive you wild with excitement rather than something akin to duty. |
I thought they [the genuine once long suffering bluenoses] did celebrate wildly, I dare say anything half hearted would come from NuFanz. | |
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| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 11:06 - May 20 with 1612 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 10:59 - May 20 by Steve_M |
I'm quite sure that some of the older City fans who went through the season in the third division, decades without a trophy know they've become an awful lot like what they used to mock their Manchester neighbours for. |
That's another cruel irony in all this.
Whilst United were buying the best players and winning everything in sight, they became the club of choice for the plastic 'prawn sandwich' eater as Keane called them.
City have become all of the things they were jealous of United for, along with all of the things they hated about United and mocked them over.
When the winning gets boring, and it will domestically because what do they have to achieve now (110 points, 120 points, unbeaten?) then they will have none of the excitement but all of the stuff they hate. | |
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| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 11:07 - May 20 with 1607 views | Pendejo |
| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 10:52 - May 20 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
By that time there won't be a genuine fan left, born from City fan, born from City fan.
They'd have all fallen out of love. It'll only be the overseas fans who want bragging rights at the water cooler that even bother checking what is happening.
A team that pretty much sold 40,000 tickets in the third division now struggles to sell 55,000 against Europe's elite.
That tells you all you need to know about how the diehards can barely identify with their team now. |
Surely that nods to the cost of tickets rather than the success of the team.
I lived in Manchester for four years the last 2 working in the areas east of the City Centre from Ancoats to Hyde, the working class heartland of City support, many of my clients factory and shop workers who were lapsed attendees back then due to the cost. | |
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| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 11:08 - May 20 with 1599 views | vilanovablue |
| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 10:32 - May 20 by Pendejo |
Hold on there, let Massive win all 4 next season before declaring English football to be the same as Scottish football.
Teams have had dominance over the years, their dominance was waned and other clubs have risen.
City aren't boring yet. Not in the same way Liverpool and United were. |
When the top 6 join a European "super" league with no promotion/relegation so nobody else can join the party and the TV money goes that way my assertion becomes less crazy. Do you think TV companies will be willing to pay the same amounts of TV money to a league not featuring Liverpool, City etc?
It won't be overnight but it won't end well for English football OK Scottish football maybe a stretch but I was being over-dramatic to demonstrate a point. | | | |
| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 11:16 - May 20 with 1558 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 11:07 - May 20 by Pendejo |
Surely that nods to the cost of tickets rather than the success of the team.
I lived in Manchester for four years the last 2 working in the areas east of the City Centre from Ancoats to Hyde, the working class heartland of City support, many of my clients factory and shop workers who were lapsed attendees back then due to the cost. |
Agreed but it goes hand in hand.
If they have 50,000 genuine fans and 50,000 who are corporate types who can afford to go because they live locally and want to see champagne football then they'll just keep increasing the price until they know they'll stop selling out.
Result, 40,000 corporate types and 10,000 fans, some of whom can't really afford to be there but find a way. | |
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| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 11:19 - May 20 with 1548 views | SomethingBlue |
| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 11:02 - May 20 by Pendejo |
I thought they [the genuine once long suffering bluenoses] did celebrate wildly, I dare say anything half hearted would come from NuFanz. |
Maybe; I'm just recounting how it felt in the stadium. When any kind of dramatic tension is erased from games like that the atmosphere will suffer accordingly. | |
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| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 13:12 - May 20 with 1437 views | Steve_M |
Another similarly themed piece here:
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/english-soccer/ken-early-city-s-dominati
"It’s time to accept that oil-funded success and mass popularity are never going to go together. It’s as though City are perched on the back of a dragon, peering down at a sullen populace, wondering incredulously why they are not loved. Shouldn’t it be obvious?"
And most football fans hated (past tense?) Manchester United and Chelsea when they were so dominant, Liverpool too for that matter. | |
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| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 13:39 - May 20 with 1387 views | Bluesquid |
Yeah top level football is well and truly knackered that is for sure but i'm getting a bit tired of reading these articles about the FA cup final.
Watford were an absolute, total shower of sh*ite - no real spirit, fight or energy, looked disinterested at times, no way did they get the basics right that day, movement up front was severely lacking, tracking back and marking at the back was absolutely absymal, goal keeping errors as well.
Yes, City were good but if Watford had of turned up that day it could have been a lot tighter, you've only got to look at Watfords last six results in the prem to see that they have been on a bad run of form and probably all thinking of their summer hols.
Suppose it gives the hacks something to write about though. [Post edited 20 May 2019 14:07]
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| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 13:41 - May 20 with 1379 views | JimmyJazz |
Football will eventually eat itself.
As someone said, if a European league does get formed, then what's the point of televising any other leagues? All the other leagues would take on some kind of non-league status.
So if television money becomes greatly reduced, what will happen to wages and everything else? And what happens when the European league gets boring as Man City and Barcelona end up with total domination and teams like Arsenal end up as the Huddersfield of the European league? |  |
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| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 14:11 - May 20 with 1324 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 13:41 - May 20 by JimmyJazz |
Football will eventually eat itself.
As someone said, if a European league does get formed, then what's the point of televising any other leagues? All the other leagues would take on some kind of non-league status.
So if television money becomes greatly reduced, what will happen to wages and everything else? And what happens when the European league gets boring as Man City and Barcelona end up with total domination and teams like Arsenal end up as the Huddersfield of the European league? |
Who cares.
That's what the plastics don't seem to realise. They have picked a team that wins stuff most years and in a 20 team European league they'll be resigned to 11 straight seasons of finishing in the bottom third.
Meanwhile fans of Everton or West Ham or Newcastle or Villa will be celebrating a title win.
I guess the plastics would just adopt an English club in the other league as a second team FML. | |
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| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 15:54 - May 20 with 1247 views | SomethingBlue |
| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 13:39 - May 20 by Bluesquid |
Yeah top level football is well and truly knackered that is for sure but i'm getting a bit tired of reading these articles about the FA cup final.
Watford were an absolute, total shower of sh*ite - no real spirit, fight or energy, looked disinterested at times, no way did they get the basics right that day, movement up front was severely lacking, tracking back and marking at the back was absolutely absymal, goal keeping errors as well.
Yes, City were good but if Watford had of turned up that day it could have been a lot tighter, you've only got to look at Watfords last six results in the prem to see that they have been on a bad run of form and probably all thinking of their summer hols.
Suppose it gives the hacks something to write about though. [Post edited 20 May 2019 14:07]
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I doubt they were uninterested (note: almost certainly not "disinterested") in taking part in the club's biggest game since 1984. People can have a shocker without it being down to an appalling attitude, amazingly. | |
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| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 16:02 - May 20 with 1228 views | britbiker |
| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 13:41 - May 20 by JimmyJazz |
Football will eventually eat itself.
As someone said, if a European league does get formed, then what's the point of televising any other leagues? All the other leagues would take on some kind of non-league status.
So if television money becomes greatly reduced, what will happen to wages and everything else? And what happens when the European league gets boring as Man City and Barcelona end up with total domination and teams like Arsenal end up as the Huddersfield of the European league? |
I wonder if TV viewing will take a hit. Outside the top 6 own fans and non attending plastics would real fans boycott buying Sky subscriptions. I have no interest in watching man city v barca week in week out. Having them as one off occasional games makes them interesting.
I suppose the TV pundits will talk it up whilst the majority of the viewers will be from asia and beyond. The league would have to have special deals to allow fans to attend away games otherwise the atmosphere will be awful. It may be interesting for a year or two but then fans will start to miss some of their old rivalry.
Plus we know money gives you more chance of sucess. How long before Barca decide they want a bigger slice of the greed money. They wont tolerate being mid table year on year due to financial parity. If it was down to fans the superleague wouldnt happen, unfortunately the greedy beggers who run the clubs and the administrators will only care about maximising their own incones. |  | | |
| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 16:07 - May 20 with 1220 views | Bluesquid |
| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 15:54 - May 20 by SomethingBlue |
I doubt they were uninterested (note: almost certainly not "disinterested") in taking part in the club's biggest game since 1984. People can have a shocker without it being down to an appalling attitude, amazingly. |
Fair enough, i just didn't see enough movement upfront and the tracking back and marking was terrible at the back, lack of spirit and energy overall.
Anyway, for whatever reason, a shocker they certainly did have which takes a hell of a lot away from City and their 6-0 victory.
Would have been a lot closer had Watford been on top of their game, oh and without Gomes in goal aswell. [Post edited 20 May 2019 16:08]
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| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 16:38 - May 20 with 1163 views | sundaze |
| Jonathan Wilson on the tedious of money dominating top level football is good on 14:11 - May 20 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
Who cares.
That's what the plastics don't seem to realise. They have picked a team that wins stuff most years and in a 20 team European league they'll be resigned to 11 straight seasons of finishing in the bottom third.
Meanwhile fans of Everton or West Ham or Newcastle or Villa will be celebrating a title win.
I guess the plastics would just adopt an English club in the other league as a second team FML. |
If the big six do eventually leave for the super league, there are a couple of possibilities for the outcome over here.
1. As you say, the next big six clubs get mega rich owners and take over from those that left and start to dominate domestic football between them getting the lions share of the money, making them the new untouchables.
2. Tv companies drastically reduce the multi millions they pay for the rights to English football and a large number of clubs would probably struggle to exist. If tv money is cut, then players wages would have to be cut, clubs academies would also suffer. Many clubs already heavily in debt, would find it even more difficult to find a willing buyer to keep them alive. |  | | |
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