Please log in or register. Registered visitors get fewer ads.
Forum index | Previous Thread | Next thread
Lack of opportunity for ex black players 12:58 - May 20 with 3126 viewsJon_456

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48217557

Always find this an interesting topic and there’s couple of points that stick out to me.

Heskey has been put off applying for jobs due to the lack of opportunity, but how do you know there’s a lack of opportunity if you haven’t been applying?

Secondly she mentions Campbell being an ex England international having to manage Macclesfield. Why isn’t he being offered a big job, why not the England managers job?

I’m not saying that there aren’t a lack of opportunities and perhaps there is some discrimination (i guess we’ll never know) but it always seems when these players comment on this, they imply as if they should walk straight into a premier league job without proving themselves further down the ladder. Think it was Paul Ince before who mentioned something along these lines.
0
Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 15:58 - May 20 with 759 viewsrickw

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 14:52 - May 20 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

Bruce, Hughes, Giggs, Solskjaer, Keane, Neville, Lampard...


What this list suggests it's about who you know more than anything else.

Bruce and Hughes started in a different era, so ignore them.

Solskjaer at Molde and Giggs at Wales are the undoubted stars for those teams for their generation- they are the big fish in the small pond.

Neville is a business partner of Peter Lim who owns Valencia, Keane knew Niall Quinn at Sunderland and the Irish owners there too.

Lampard less so, but has always been seen as an intelligent footballer, but also has great contacts - with his uncle Harry, plus his good connections with Chelsea and the Man City ownership which all I think contributed to Derby taking the gamble on him.

Poll: Of the Non Favourites for ITFC managers job who would you prefer
Blog: Reasons for Relegation

0
Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 20:45 - May 20 with 700 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 14:09 - May 20 by ballycastle

Of equal concern, in fact possibly greater concern is the lack of opportunity for English managers in the premier division.


Of the last 32 managerial changes in the PL, 15 of them have seen British managers appointed. Unfortunately, a large portion of those are British managers in their 50’s such as Moyes, Pardew, Allardyce et al - these were the managers blocking the paths of up and coming lower league options

Fortunately in the past 12 months PL chairman seem to have moved away from the same revolving cast of failures, with the result being a promising new option in Graham Potter landing the Brighton job

Highlighting crass stupidity since sometime around 2010
Poll: Would you want Messi to sign?

0
Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 20:59 - May 20 with 694 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 15:58 - May 20 by rickw

What this list suggests it's about who you know more than anything else.

Bruce and Hughes started in a different era, so ignore them.

Solskjaer at Molde and Giggs at Wales are the undoubted stars for those teams for their generation- they are the big fish in the small pond.

Neville is a business partner of Peter Lim who owns Valencia, Keane knew Niall Quinn at Sunderland and the Irish owners there too.

Lampard less so, but has always been seen as an intelligent footballer, but also has great contacts - with his uncle Harry, plus his good connections with Chelsea and the Man City ownership which all I think contributed to Derby taking the gamble on him.


Your suggestion seems to be that lot so of white ex-players have contacts but black ones don’t?

Highlighting crass stupidity since sometime around 2010
Poll: Would you want Messi to sign?

0
Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 23:31 - May 20 with 657 viewsrickw

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 20:59 - May 20 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

Your suggestion seems to be that lot so of white ex-players have contacts but black ones don’t?


I just went through that list.

Look at yesterday - Kompany got the Anderlecht job just because he impressed when having a chat at his former club, he kept in contact with his old club and the opportunity arose.

I think it's a lot about chance and knowing the right people at the right time.

But when this doesn't happen players need to show humility and take a coaching/assitant role to start with. Gerrard, Solskjaer, Giggs, Neville all did coaching for a year or so before getting a management job.

Poll: Of the Non Favourites for ITFC managers job who would you prefer
Blog: Reasons for Relegation

0
Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 06:18 - May 21 with 632 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 23:31 - May 20 by rickw

I just went through that list.

Look at yesterday - Kompany got the Anderlecht job just because he impressed when having a chat at his former club, he kept in contact with his old club and the opportunity arose.

I think it's a lot about chance and knowing the right people at the right time.

But when this doesn't happen players need to show humility and take a coaching/assitant role to start with. Gerrard, Solskjaer, Giggs, Neville all did coaching for a year or so before getting a management job.


I full agree, but that applies to anyone. Unless you’re suggesting that black players aren’t prepared to take lesser coaching roles whilst white ones are - in which case the question becomes why is that the case?
[Post edited 21 May 2019 6:21]

Highlighting crass stupidity since sometime around 2010
Poll: Would you want Messi to sign?

0
Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 08:17 - May 21 with 594 viewsitfcjoe

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 14:38 - May 20 by WarkTheWarkITFC

He wasn't though was he.

Campbell was a brilliant centre half but he was never one of the best 4 or 5 in the world. In the top 10 at times perhaps.

Lampard and Gerrard however could have moved to any club in the world at one time in their careers. They could have moved to Real or Barca. Campbell possibly but the other two definitely.

A fine line but it tends to be superstar players like Gerrard, Zidane, Cruyff, Guardiola and so on who walk into top jobs. The ones ever so slightly below that seem to have to drop right down, like Sheringham, like Ince.


Campbell was a better player than that, he was an incredible defender and easily up there with the worlds best for a sustained period

Poll: Club vs country? What would you choose
Blog: What is Going on With the Academy at Ipswich Town?

0
Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 08:56 - May 21 with 565 viewsrickw

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 06:18 - May 21 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

I full agree, but that applies to anyone. Unless you’re suggesting that black players aren’t prepared to take lesser coaching roles whilst white ones are - in which case the question becomes why is that the case?
[Post edited 21 May 2019 6:21]


Not at all - we have Dyer and Bramble coaching at Ipswich. However some players both black and white feel they're entitled to just get given a top job.

It's perhaps highlighted more when it's black players though as they're also asked if it's because of the colour of their skin - and that makes news.

Poll: Of the Non Favourites for ITFC managers job who would you prefer
Blog: Reasons for Relegation

0
Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 10:04 - May 21 with 531 viewsGeoffSentence

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 13:56 - May 20 by WarkTheWarkITFC

There is a bit of both in this.

There can be no argument at all that black managers are under represented as opposed to black players. Massively.

Historically, I am sure black managers were overlooked on account of the colour of their skin. I don't think it's an issue particularly now.

There have been hundreds of black players from the 80's onwards to inspire black kids to be footballers, but the lack of black managers has probably encouraged black players not to see this as a viable career move and they haven't pursued it the way their white counterparts have.

Now more and more black coaches are doing their badges you cannot tell me that if the applicants you have applying are 9 white managers from the Conference North and someone like Emile Heskey with all his coaching badges, the club wouldn't be willing to take a chance on him.

Yes, some white managers like Lampard and Gerrard have walked into top jobs, but Sheringham was at Stevenage, Gazza at Kettering, Tim Flowers manages Solihull Moors - all ex England stars. Even the likes of Steve Claridge have started well down the leagues at Salisbury. Harry Kewell was a Champions League winner who had to start with Crawley.

Ince did well at Macclesfield and was given a chance at Blackburn eventually where he did no better or worse than anyone else. John Barnes did very little at Celtic than slightly under what was expected and nothing at Tranmere. Being black won't make them any better or worse managers and 99% of chairmen now will know this and appoint the best candidate.

If black coaches apply for jobs at top clubs they will, like most white players who were also famous, likely miss out to an experienced pair of hands.

I think the big problem is that most of the 'marquee' England players of the last few years have been white. Gerrard, Lampard, Beckham. The likes of Ince, Heskey and Campbell were very good players but not total superstars. Ince was a huge piece of the Man Utd jigsaw when the PL wasn't as established, Heskey was an under rated and much criticised player and Campbell was class but not was also heavily criticised due to his controversial move. None were golden boys and it wasn't because of the colour of their skin.

Now if Rio Ferdinand wanted to go into management I'd expect he'd have equally walked into the Derby or Rangers job. Superstar status probably does get you in the door. Otherwise, like everyone else you probably have to take a chance down the leagues.

What would really help is a black superstar heading into management. It's a shame Kompany went back to Belgium as he would have been the sort of manager you could see a smaller Premier League club taking on.
[Post edited 20 May 2019 14:01]


Ryan Giggs walked into the Wales job, there's a BAME superstar manager for you there.

Don't boil a kettle on a boat.
Poll: The best Williams to play for Town

0
About Us Contact Us Terms & Conditions Privacy Cookies Advertising
© TWTD 1995-2024