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Lack of opportunity for ex black players 12:58 - May 20 with 3125 viewsJon_456

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/48217557

Always find this an interesting topic and there’s couple of points that stick out to me.

Heskey has been put off applying for jobs due to the lack of opportunity, but how do you know there’s a lack of opportunity if you haven’t been applying?

Secondly she mentions Campbell being an ex England international having to manage Macclesfield. Why isn’t he being offered a big job, why not the England managers job?

I’m not saying that there aren’t a lack of opportunities and perhaps there is some discrimination (i guess we’ll never know) but it always seems when these players comment on this, they imply as if they should walk straight into a premier league job without proving themselves further down the ladder. Think it was Paul Ince before who mentioned something along these lines.
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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 13:31 - May 20 with 2303 viewsmaccyd9

It's a load of sh!te.

Campbell is lucky to even have the Macclesfield job, he's an absolute mentalist.

Maybe the only issue is clubs pre empting there will be cries of foul play if they hire a black manager then look to make a change so avoid that because of furore it will unfairly create.

West Brom for example were hammered when they got rid of Darren Moore, despite giving him the role in the first place and are now sussing out Chris Hughton.
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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 13:36 - May 20 with 2280 viewsTractorCam

What a stupid woman.

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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 13:46 - May 20 with 2238 viewsBlueBadger

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 13:36 - May 20 by TractorCam

What a stupid woman.


So, how do you account for the fact that 1 in 3 players in 2017/18 were BAME but only 4 managers total in all four League divisions?

I'm one of the people who was blamed for getting Paul Cook sacked. PM for the full post.
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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 13:56 - May 20 with 2219 viewsmaccyd9

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 13:46 - May 20 by BlueBadger

So, how do you account for the fact that 1 in 3 players in 2017/18 were BAME but only 4 managers total in all four League divisions?


Do you genuinely believe there are excellent BAME candidates applying for jobs but not getting them because of racist owners?

I'd love for owners or even BAME candidates themselves to come out and talk about exactly who has applied for what, with what credentials and competition for the role.

Rose himself has thrown the towel in, perhaps others are doing the same when in reality they are in a prime position to prove or disprove the theory. Perhaps disproving it is the real fear.
[Post edited 20 May 2019 13:57]
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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 13:56 - May 20 with 2211 viewsWarkTheWarkITFC

There is a bit of both in this.

There can be no argument at all that black managers are under represented as opposed to black players. Massively.

Historically, I am sure black managers were overlooked on account of the colour of their skin. I don't think it's an issue particularly now.

There have been hundreds of black players from the 80's onwards to inspire black kids to be footballers, but the lack of black managers has probably encouraged black players not to see this as a viable career move and they haven't pursued it the way their white counterparts have.

Now more and more black coaches are doing their badges you cannot tell me that if the applicants you have applying are 9 white managers from the Conference North and someone like Emile Heskey with all his coaching badges, the club wouldn't be willing to take a chance on him.

Yes, some white managers like Lampard and Gerrard have walked into top jobs, but Sheringham was at Stevenage, Gazza at Kettering, Tim Flowers manages Solihull Moors - all ex England stars. Even the likes of Steve Claridge have started well down the leagues at Salisbury. Harry Kewell was a Champions League winner who had to start with Crawley.

Ince did well at Macclesfield and was given a chance at Blackburn eventually where he did no better or worse than anyone else. John Barnes did very little at Celtic than slightly under what was expected and nothing at Tranmere. Being black won't make them any better or worse managers and 99% of chairmen now will know this and appoint the best candidate.

If black coaches apply for jobs at top clubs they will, like most white players who were also famous, likely miss out to an experienced pair of hands.

I think the big problem is that most of the 'marquee' England players of the last few years have been white. Gerrard, Lampard, Beckham. The likes of Ince, Heskey and Campbell were very good players but not total superstars. Ince was a huge piece of the Man Utd jigsaw when the PL wasn't as established, Heskey was an under rated and much criticised player and Campbell was class but not was also heavily criticised due to his controversial move. None were golden boys and it wasn't because of the colour of their skin.

Now if Rio Ferdinand wanted to go into management I'd expect he'd have equally walked into the Derby or Rangers job. Superstar status probably does get you in the door. Otherwise, like everyone else you probably have to take a chance down the leagues.

What would really help is a black superstar heading into management. It's a shame Kompany went back to Belgium as he would have been the sort of manager you could see a smaller Premier League club taking on.
[Post edited 20 May 2019 14:01]

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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 13:57 - May 20 with 2202 viewsTractorCam

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 13:46 - May 20 by BlueBadger

So, how do you account for the fact that 1 in 3 players in 2017/18 were BAME but only 4 managers total in all four League divisions?


Probably because she wants Heskey to apply for the England job rather than dare go to such nobody teams like Macclesfield and earn his way up.

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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 13:58 - May 20 with 2201 viewsWarkTheWarkITFC

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 13:56 - May 20 by maccyd9

Do you genuinely believe there are excellent BAME candidates applying for jobs but not getting them because of racist owners?

I'd love for owners or even BAME candidates themselves to come out and talk about exactly who has applied for what, with what credentials and competition for the role.

Rose himself has thrown the towel in, perhaps others are doing the same when in reality they are in a prime position to prove or disprove the theory. Perhaps disproving it is the real fear.
[Post edited 20 May 2019 13:57]


You cannot imagine any chairman not appointing the best candidate they can within the budget that they have.

I can imagine maybe 3 or 4 owners would have some sort of prehistoric racist views but surely now, like most of the rest of the world, these people will appoint the best person for the job whether it's a man or woman, white or black, young or old.

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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 14:06 - May 20 with 2159 viewsrickw

I think it's that perception that black players don't get offered managers jobs and the fact most black players don't train to become coaches which is causing the biggest issue.

I think there are several reasons with Sol Campbell why he hasn't been offered a higher job:
He can't return to his roots as Spurs hate him
He was at his prime at Arsenal, Wenger never offered any ex players roles.
He finished at Portsmouth who suffered several relegations and ownership changes since he left.
When retiring he initially wanted to be a movie star.
Then he wanted to be Mayor of London
After all that he decided he should already be a manager and it's racist why he wasn't!

I think it's difficult for all ex players to get started in management, especially if you're not intrinsically linked to a club. Often it's just being in the right place at the right time - Parker at Fulham and Moore at WBA both got their jobs after taking a lesser coaching role then both clubs sacking 2 managers in the same season.

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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 14:09 - May 20 with 2139 viewsballycastle

Of equal concern, in fact possibly greater concern is the lack of opportunity for English managers in the premier division.
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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 14:13 - May 20 with 2124 viewsJ2BLUE

I have a lot of time for Campbell who has proven he can do the job. It's really the next couple of years that will show if there is an issue or not for him, if he keeps doing well.

I think all players should start managing in the lower divisions but it must be a bit galling for the likes of Campbell to see Lampard and Gerrard walk into big jobs. Campbell was every bit as good a player as them for club and country.

Truly impaired.
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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 14:13 - May 20 with 2117 viewsTractorCam

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 13:58 - May 20 by WarkTheWarkITFC

You cannot imagine any chairman not appointing the best candidate they can within the budget that they have.

I can imagine maybe 3 or 4 owners would have some sort of prehistoric racist views but surely now, like most of the rest of the world, these people will appoint the best person for the job whether it's a man or woman, white or black, young or old.


The problem with these things is that it doesn't seem that the points get argued.

If she said to me that the lack of opportunities are there that he doesn't bother apply, I would then ask "How do you know if you aren't applying?"

If she said He should be able to get the England job rather than go to lower leagues, i'd say "Why should he walk straight into the England job? Because he has loads of caps, well what other players have walked straight into the England manager's job after retiring?"

All the jobs go to Chelsea and Manchester United players, i'll ask "Name me some examples of these players?"

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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 14:15 - May 20 with 2104 viewsSwansea_Blue

She's not exactly pressing the case by opening with "He's never really wanted to go down the coaching level".

There does appear to be an issue when you look at the low levels of representation, but it doesn't sound like it's something bothering Mr Heskey.

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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 14:15 - May 20 with 2096 viewsTractorCam

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 14:13 - May 20 by J2BLUE

I have a lot of time for Campbell who has proven he can do the job. It's really the next couple of years that will show if there is an issue or not for him, if he keeps doing well.

I think all players should start managing in the lower divisions but it must be a bit galling for the likes of Campbell to see Lampard and Gerrard walk into big jobs. Campbell was every bit as good a player as them for club and country.


Me too, I laughed when he use to moan about how he should be getting good jobs, then when Macclesfield appointed him I laughed even more for the same reason as the first point, he's a nutter!

He's now done a brilliant job keeping them up and hope he now has a progressive career, which i'm sure he will.

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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 14:38 - May 20 with 2027 viewsWarkTheWarkITFC

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 14:13 - May 20 by J2BLUE

I have a lot of time for Campbell who has proven he can do the job. It's really the next couple of years that will show if there is an issue or not for him, if he keeps doing well.

I think all players should start managing in the lower divisions but it must be a bit galling for the likes of Campbell to see Lampard and Gerrard walk into big jobs. Campbell was every bit as good a player as them for club and country.


He wasn't though was he.

Campbell was a brilliant centre half but he was never one of the best 4 or 5 in the world. In the top 10 at times perhaps.

Lampard and Gerrard however could have moved to any club in the world at one time in their careers. They could have moved to Real or Barca. Campbell possibly but the other two definitely.

A fine line but it tends to be superstar players like Gerrard, Zidane, Cruyff, Guardiola and so on who walk into top jobs. The ones ever so slightly below that seem to have to drop right down, like Sheringham, like Ince.

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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 14:41 - May 20 with 2014 viewsflimflam

We have had a black manager with a 100% win record.

All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing.

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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 14:42 - May 20 with 2012 viewsJon_456

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 13:56 - May 20 by maccyd9

Do you genuinely believe there are excellent BAME candidates applying for jobs but not getting them because of racist owners?

I'd love for owners or even BAME candidates themselves to come out and talk about exactly who has applied for what, with what credentials and competition for the role.

Rose himself has thrown the towel in, perhaps others are doing the same when in reality they are in a prime position to prove or disprove the theory. Perhaps disproving it is the real fear.
[Post edited 20 May 2019 13:57]


I think there’s two issues here.

Firstly it’s difficult to compare current BAME players to BAME as it takes time to progress into management. Therefore I think you need to compare the number of BAME players 10-15years ago to the number on BAME managers now to see if there’s an issue.

Secondly you need to look at the amount of BAME players who have genuinely wanted to and tried to go down the coaching / managing route. There’s a difference between being asked in an interview if you want to become a manager, and actually dedicating your life to become one.
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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 14:44 - May 20 with 1999 viewsJ2BLUE

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 14:38 - May 20 by WarkTheWarkITFC

He wasn't though was he.

Campbell was a brilliant centre half but he was never one of the best 4 or 5 in the world. In the top 10 at times perhaps.

Lampard and Gerrard however could have moved to any club in the world at one time in their careers. They could have moved to Real or Barca. Campbell possibly but the other two definitely.

A fine line but it tends to be superstar players like Gerrard, Zidane, Cruyff, Guardiola and so on who walk into top jobs. The ones ever so slightly below that seem to have to drop right down, like Sheringham, like Ince.


I don't think there is a club in the world who wouldn't have wanted Campbell in his prime.

Truly impaired.
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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 14:45 - May 20 with 1996 viewscrunchie1978

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 13:56 - May 20 by maccyd9

Do you genuinely believe there are excellent BAME candidates applying for jobs but not getting them because of racist owners?

I'd love for owners or even BAME candidates themselves to come out and talk about exactly who has applied for what, with what credentials and competition for the role.

Rose himself has thrown the towel in, perhaps others are doing the same when in reality they are in a prime position to prove or disprove the theory. Perhaps disproving it is the real fear.
[Post edited 20 May 2019 13:57]


Yes he does!
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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 14:48 - May 20 with 1975 viewsWarkTheWarkITFC

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 14:44 - May 20 by J2BLUE

I don't think there is a club in the world who wouldn't have wanted Campbell in his prime.


When Campbell was in his prime Real Madrid had the likes of Hierro and Roberto Carlos and Barca had Nadal and De Boer.

Campbell was probably as good as some of the defenders at other top clubs, but Gerrard and Lampard in their prime were seen as better than some of the other players in their positions at top clubs.

I suppose if this was FIFA you are talking about Gerrard and Lampard being 95 whilst Campbell would be 90. Fine margins nonetheless.

But Sheringham would be a 90 for me too and as I say he ended up at Stevenage!

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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 14:52 - May 20 with 1959 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 14:13 - May 20 by TractorCam

The problem with these things is that it doesn't seem that the points get argued.

If she said to me that the lack of opportunities are there that he doesn't bother apply, I would then ask "How do you know if you aren't applying?"

If she said He should be able to get the England job rather than go to lower leagues, i'd say "Why should he walk straight into the England job? Because he has loads of caps, well what other players have walked straight into the England manager's job after retiring?"

All the jobs go to Chelsea and Manchester United players, i'll ask "Name me some examples of these players?"


Bruce, Hughes, Giggs, Solskjaer, Keane, Neville, Lampard...

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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 15:04 - May 20 with 1924 viewsJon_456

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 14:52 - May 20 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

Bruce, Hughes, Giggs, Solskjaer, Keane, Neville, Lampard...


Solskjaer had done a good job at Molde prior to his spell at Cardiff and then was only brought in on a temp basis at Utd before rejuvenating them and deservedly getting it full time.

Keane is an odd one, a gamble that paid off for Sunderland.

Neville just happened to know the owner of Valencia which is why he got the job.

And as mentioned by others, lampard / Gerrard were exceptional players (better than Campbell in my eyes) and got their jobs based on reputation.

Bruce / Hughes I don’t know.
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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 15:06 - May 20 with 1920 viewsCrawfordsboot

Im not sure I'd offer a job to someone who changed colour!
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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 15:06 - May 20 with 1910 viewsC_HealyIsAPleasure

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 15:04 - May 20 by Jon_456

Solskjaer had done a good job at Molde prior to his spell at Cardiff and then was only brought in on a temp basis at Utd before rejuvenating them and deservedly getting it full time.

Keane is an odd one, a gamble that paid off for Sunderland.

Neville just happened to know the owner of Valencia which is why he got the job.

And as mentioned by others, lampard / Gerrard were exceptional players (better than Campbell in my eyes) and got their jobs based on reputation.

Bruce / Hughes I don’t know.


So apart from all those guys that got opportunities for various reasons, which famous white ex-players have ever got given jobs then?

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Michael Jackson..... on 15:08 - May 20 with 1898 viewsBloots

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 15:06 - May 20 by Crawfordsboot

Im not sure I'd offer a job to someone who changed colour!


....was an ex black entertainer.

(In more ways than one)

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Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 15:17 - May 20 with 1878 viewsJon_456

Lack of opportunity for ex black players on 15:06 - May 20 by C_HealyIsAPleasure

So apart from all those guys that got opportunities for various reasons, which famous white ex-players have ever got given jobs then?


Don’t think I ever said white ex players don’t get opportunities, I just think thinks need to be looked at with the full facts.

Name me some ex BAME players who want to become managers who haven’t been given opportunities?
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