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With British Steel likely to go down 09:08 - May 21 with 2353 viewsCoastalblue

Do we need to accept that we are no longer in a place in this country to offer large scale manufacturing? Cost of living and expectations meaning high wages for employees and we have a relatively small domestic market place to sustain industries.

If we are going to manufacture then it should be smaller scale, high tech and high value products? Or are we no longer in a place to compete on a global scale at all?

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With British Steel likely to go down on 09:21 - May 21 with 2314 viewsSteve_M

The two are distinct questions I think, certainly large-scale manufacturing can almost certainly be done cheaper elsewhere however the fact that large amounts of infrastructure already exist in this country does mean that it can survive if market circumstances are right. A US-China trade war and the continued uncertainty of Brexit aren't anyone's definition of ideal market conditions.

There are a number of high-tech manufacturing firms in the UK, some have worked to establish cross-EU supply chains and sales networks that are highly successful. That is very much the future or should have been but these are at risk from the incompetence of our government and every blase claim about no deal Brexit not being a problem.

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With British Steel likely to go down on 09:22 - May 21 with 2311 viewsElephantintheRoom

I was quite surprised to hear that British Steel still exists, albeit apparently only briefly. LIke our car industry I thought it had been gifted to foreign countries years ago. Like any manufacturing, large or small, it depends on investment, good management and securing markets for your products. And a workforce that didnt vote for Brexit. Doubt steel in scunthorpe had any of that.

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With British Steel likely to go down on 09:25 - May 21 with 2306 viewsGuthrum

That's pretty much where British Steel is already. Modest quantities of high quality metal for specific applications. Which is why they are struggling to remain competitive at a time when the market is flooded and demand is down.

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With British Steel likely to go down on 09:28 - May 21 with 2295 viewsSwansea_Blue

With British Steel likely to go down on 09:21 - May 21 by Steve_M

The two are distinct questions I think, certainly large-scale manufacturing can almost certainly be done cheaper elsewhere however the fact that large amounts of infrastructure already exist in this country does mean that it can survive if market circumstances are right. A US-China trade war and the continued uncertainty of Brexit aren't anyone's definition of ideal market conditions.

There are a number of high-tech manufacturing firms in the UK, some have worked to establish cross-EU supply chains and sales networks that are highly successful. That is very much the future or should have been but these are at risk from the incompetence of our government and every blase claim about no deal Brexit not being a problem.


There's also a bit of an impression that steelmaking is just low tech. It's far from it - the R&D that goes into new products is significant. Tata Steel invested significantly in making lighter steel for the Nissan Leaf allowing them to increase sales to the automotive industry here and in Europe, for example. There are plenty more examples around other specialist metals for the construction, transport, packaging, etc.

Of course, Tata Steel are foreign owned and benefit from levels of investment that probably only a global major player can provide.

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With British Steel likely to go down on 09:40 - May 21 with 2253 viewshampstead_blue

I agree with the OP.

We cannot compete with subsidies as much as anything. Our steel is supposed to be of the highest quality BUT china and the USA governments subsidise theirs so much we are knocked out of the park.
I'd imagine JC will bring back big Gov subsidies and the unions would take over, if he could. That would cause wage inflation.

We are one of the finest in smaller scale high tech stuff.

Do what you do best.

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With British Steel likely to go down on 09:48 - May 21 with 2228 viewsDeano69

As a nation we are far too small to compete on a global scale in manufacturing in quantity. A bit like a corner shop trying to compete with Carrefour or Walmart.

I still believe we could excel in quality over quantity and be more of a niche than mass producer. Agriculture, high value/premium product production and innovation should be our focus. But we seem to still think we have a say on the world stage. And we also seem to have lost many of the skills and knowledge in less fashionable but highly profitable sectors.

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With British Steel likely to go down on 09:50 - May 21 with 2226 viewscaught-in-limbo

I think the balance of industry in the UK is perfect. If we ship out all heavy industry to somewhere else we can crow about our own reduced carbon emissions and whinge about the lapse attitude towards the health of the planet held by the countries which are making stuff for us.

An economy based on financial services, on the other hand, is the way to go. Nothing is actually produced, very little work is done and huge profits are made and shared among very few. It's incredibly efficient.

It's important for the national psyche that we feel good about ourselves and superior to others.

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With British Steel likely to go down on 10:05 - May 21 with 2198 viewsDeano69

With British Steel likely to go down on 09:50 - May 21 by caught-in-limbo

I think the balance of industry in the UK is perfect. If we ship out all heavy industry to somewhere else we can crow about our own reduced carbon emissions and whinge about the lapse attitude towards the health of the planet held by the countries which are making stuff for us.

An economy based on financial services, on the other hand, is the way to go. Nothing is actually produced, very little work is done and huge profits are made and shared among very few. It's incredibly efficient.

It's important for the national psyche that we feel good about ourselves and superior to others.


It is if those profits are kept and spent in the UK. Quite the opposite if not.

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With British Steel likely to go down on 10:26 - May 21 with 2176 viewschicoazul

If Trump is right about one thing, it's that if you don't have steel then you don't have a country. Surely they are going to have to nationalise it.

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With British Steel likely to go down on 10:28 - May 21 with 2165 viewschicoazul

With British Steel likely to go down on 09:21 - May 21 by Steve_M

The two are distinct questions I think, certainly large-scale manufacturing can almost certainly be done cheaper elsewhere however the fact that large amounts of infrastructure already exist in this country does mean that it can survive if market circumstances are right. A US-China trade war and the continued uncertainty of Brexit aren't anyone's definition of ideal market conditions.

There are a number of high-tech manufacturing firms in the UK, some have worked to establish cross-EU supply chains and sales networks that are highly successful. That is very much the future or should have been but these are at risk from the incompetence of our government and every blase claim about no deal Brexit not being a problem.


Seeing us get our heads kicked in by the Chinese and the US over Huawei is a vision of our future. It'll be the EU joining in soon enough.

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With British Steel likely to go down on 10:39 - May 21 with 2135 viewsGuthrum

With British Steel likely to go down on 10:26 - May 21 by chicoazul

If Trump is right about one thing, it's that if you don't have steel then you don't have a country. Surely they are going to have to nationalise it.


Is that really true for us any more? Most of the steel we use (e.g. in construction) is already imported. If there's a major European war and a blockade, the UK would already be way beyond stuffed.

Perhaps it's a token (like possession of nuclear weapons), less a practical thing and more just a ticket to the top table in diplomacy.

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With British Steel likely to go down on 10:41 - May 21 with 2128 viewsfooters

Hang about. I thought the Tories were very proud of their 'industrial strategy' - is this part of it?

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With British Steel likely to go down on 10:41 - May 21 with 2126 viewsNo9

With British Steel likely to go down on 09:28 - May 21 by Swansea_Blue

There's also a bit of an impression that steelmaking is just low tech. It's far from it - the R&D that goes into new products is significant. Tata Steel invested significantly in making lighter steel for the Nissan Leaf allowing them to increase sales to the automotive industry here and in Europe, for example. There are plenty more examples around other specialist metals for the construction, transport, packaging, etc.

Of course, Tata Steel are foreign owned and benefit from levels of investment that probably only a global major player can provide.


B ack in the day, British steel was a world leader in quality products and how they were developed + the formulas for making the new stuff.
All sacrificed on the alter of privatisation.
How much of the special steels do we now have to import?
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With British Steel likely to go down on 10:42 - May 21 with 2126 viewsNo9

The UK was de-industrialsied & de-skilled in the 80's.
We have become a low wage assembly shop for the EU
Which is about to go tits up
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With British Steel likely to go down on 10:44 - May 21 with 2118 viewsSteve_M

With British Steel likely to go down on 09:28 - May 21 by Swansea_Blue

There's also a bit of an impression that steelmaking is just low tech. It's far from it - the R&D that goes into new products is significant. Tata Steel invested significantly in making lighter steel for the Nissan Leaf allowing them to increase sales to the automotive industry here and in Europe, for example. There are plenty more examples around other specialist metals for the construction, transport, packaging, etc.

Of course, Tata Steel are foreign owned and benefit from levels of investment that probably only a global major player can provide.


Yes, that's true.

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With British Steel likely to go down on 10:50 - May 21 with 2106 viewsDurovigutum

With British Steel likely to go down on 10:39 - May 21 by Guthrum

Is that really true for us any more? Most of the steel we use (e.g. in construction) is already imported. If there's a major European war and a blockade, the UK would already be way beyond stuffed.

Perhaps it's a token (like possession of nuclear weapons), less a practical thing and more just a ticket to the top table in diplomacy.


From a national security point of view we have to maintain a steel producer.

Look at Australia - not a country where it necessarily makes sense to try and farm everything that they do (drought, soil quality etc) but they maintain farms to give a core food production capability "in case" from a national security point of view.
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With British Steel likely to go down on 10:52 - May 21 with 2100 viewsNo9

With British Steel likely to go down on 10:26 - May 21 by chicoazul

If Trump is right about one thing, it's that if you don't have steel then you don't have a country. Surely they are going to have to nationalise it.


& Trump has Reagan to thank for the demise of the US steel industry.
Now they mainl only produce low grade stuff - e.g. the steel for the twin towers replacement is made in Luxembourg.
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With British Steel likely to go down on 10:58 - May 21 with 2090 viewshampstead_blue

With British Steel likely to go down on 10:41 - May 21 by No9

B ack in the day, British steel was a world leader in quality products and how they were developed + the formulas for making the new stuff.
All sacrificed on the alter of privatisation.
How much of the special steels do we now have to import?


I think we got knocked out of the steel market by low quality, low price, heavily subsidised supply from other countries.

I'd wager that the workers rights and conditions are shocking in places like China and India.

We can't compete on price but give them a right shooing on quality.

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With British Steel likely to go down on 11:01 - May 21 with 2079 viewsNo9

With British Steel likely to go down on 10:58 - May 21 by hampstead_blue

I think we got knocked out of the steel market by low quality, low price, heavily subsidised supply from other countries.

I'd wager that the workers rights and conditions are shocking in places like China and India.

We can't compete on price but give them a right shooing on quality.


Now maybe but all the processes for making the high grade top quality stuff developed by British Steel were given away in the privatisation give away.
Completely undermined British Steel making & BS became a purveyor of low quality stuff re-badged
- I had a lot of the stuff which failed the normal tests
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With British Steel likely to go down on 13:40 - May 21 with 1956 viewsPinewoodblue

EU laws are going to stop the government bailing out the company that owns British Steel. Going to upset Brexiteers

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With British Steel likely to go down on 13:55 - May 21 with 1943 viewsGuthrum

With British Steel likely to go down on 10:50 - May 21 by Durovigutum

From a national security point of view we have to maintain a steel producer.

Look at Australia - not a country where it necessarily makes sense to try and farm everything that they do (drought, soil quality etc) but they maintain farms to give a core food production capability "in case" from a national security point of view.


Our capacity is so small we couldn't hope to be self-sufficient in an emergency anyway. Even if we could still import the raw materials.

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