| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:20 - May 22 with 1297 views | clive_baker |
| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:14 - May 22 by Herbivore |
This isn't about the rate though, it's about them being allowed to find ways to not pay any tax. Currently the rate is 19% dropping to 18% next year. That's lower by a fair bit than the EU average and G20 average, as major developed economies go we have a very 'competitive' rate of corporation tax. However, some of these big multinationals don't even pay our comparatively low rate, some pay nothing at all whilst others pay a fraction of what they should. If the government spent as much time and money on ensuring taxes were paid as they did on clamping down on people claiming benefits then our public finances would be in a much healthier state. |
That's my point - would the public finances be in a much healthier state? If these multinationals were forced to keep in line (and I 100% agree with you on a moral point that they absolutely shouldn't be able to skirt around paying taxes) then some (not all) would almost certainly move their operations elsewhere. We might still be lower than elsewhere but the cost of operating is higher than many in terms of property and salaries etc, so my point was I'm glad it's not my job to forecast the sweet spot when considering all those variables. I don't doubt that today's position isn't it, but it is a tough balance. |  |
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| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:31 - May 22 with 1282 views | Herbivore |
| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:20 - May 22 by clive_baker |
That's my point - would the public finances be in a much healthier state? If these multinationals were forced to keep in line (and I 100% agree with you on a moral point that they absolutely shouldn't be able to skirt around paying taxes) then some (not all) would almost certainly move their operations elsewhere. We might still be lower than elsewhere but the cost of operating is higher than many in terms of property and salaries etc, so my point was I'm glad it's not my job to forecast the sweet spot when considering all those variables. I don't doubt that today's position isn't it, but it is a tough balance. |
Most major multinationals would maintain a presence here, we're one of the largest economies in the world and they need their UK revenue stream. We already have low corporation tax rates, it's not asking too much for those rates to be consistently levied on companies making money in the UK. [Post edited 22 May 2019 11:42]
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| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:37 - May 22 with 1275 views | clive_baker |
| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:31 - May 22 by Herbivore |
Most major multinationals would maintain a presence here, we're one of the largest economies in the world and they need their UK revenue stream. We already have low corporation tax rates, it's not asking too much for those rates to be consistently levied on companies making money in the UK. [Post edited 22 May 2019 11:42]
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It's not about 'maintaining a presence'. It's about companies maintaining a separate legal entity in this country which incurs taxes, and being comfortable in maintaining a level of activity at varying tax rates that would result in a net benefit to the public purse.
With respect, I'm not sure what your statement is based on. I hope the government don't deal in 'most would' and 'not asking too much', although sadly they probably do. [Post edited 22 May 2019 11:39]
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| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:40 - May 22 with 1273 views | footers |
| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:20 - May 22 by clive_baker |
That's my point - would the public finances be in a much healthier state? If these multinationals were forced to keep in line (and I 100% agree with you on a moral point that they absolutely shouldn't be able to skirt around paying taxes) then some (not all) would almost certainly move their operations elsewhere. We might still be lower than elsewhere but the cost of operating is higher than many in terms of property and salaries etc, so my point was I'm glad it's not my job to forecast the sweet spot when considering all those variables. I don't doubt that today's position isn't it, but it is a tough balance. |
I think it's a problem that taxes are viewed by businesses as something punitive rather than beneficial to them.
Those taxes pay for the educated workforce and infrastructure that businesses take advantage of. In fact, considering how bad our transport infrastructure is, relatively, I'm surprised there haven't been more calls from businesses to improve it. |  |
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| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:43 - May 22 with 1260 views | Guthrum |
| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:40 - May 22 by footers |
I think it's a problem that taxes are viewed by businesses as something punitive rather than beneficial to them.
Those taxes pay for the educated workforce and infrastructure that businesses take advantage of. In fact, considering how bad our transport infrastructure is, relatively, I'm surprised there haven't been more calls from businesses to improve it. |
It's how taxes are viewed by pretty much everybody. Combined with the narrative that "I can do a better job than the wasteful/inefficient/lazy/slack public sector" - when in fact most people (or profit-requiring companies) can't - is a dangerous mix. |  |
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| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:44 - May 22 with 1256 views | No9 |
| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 10:47 - May 22 by clive_baker |
They certainly wouldn't have a presence here if Corporation Tax was prohibitive to doing so.
I don't disagree with you in principle by the way, it frustrates me that these huge business can mop up large profits and not contribute taxes to the UK public purse. No doubt they would expect the fire brigade to turn up if the office went up in flames or the police if they were broken in to. It's just a tough balance between having more people in work = more absolute contribution into the pot, more disposable income to fuel further growth and employments and less cost by way of benefits vs. compromising some of that by notching Corporation Tax up. |
It is very easy for foreign companies to avoid paying tax in the UK. |  | | |
| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:44 - May 22 with 1256 views | Herbivore |
| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:37 - May 22 by clive_baker |
It's not about 'maintaining a presence'. It's about companies maintaining a separate legal entity in this country which incurs taxes, and being comfortable in maintaining a level of activity at varying tax rates that would result in a net benefit to the public purse.
With respect, I'm not sure what your statement is based on. I hope the government don't deal in 'most would' and 'not asking too much', although sadly they probably do. [Post edited 22 May 2019 11:39]
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But many of them aren't paying their taxes, which is the bit you keep ignoring. If they have separate legal entities here paying UK tax then great, but many don't and we shouldn't enable that. If they are trading here and making money here they should pay their dues. | |
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| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:47 - May 22 with 1249 views | footers |
| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:43 - May 22 by Guthrum |
It's how taxes are viewed by pretty much everybody. Combined with the narrative that "I can do a better job than the wasteful/inefficient/lazy/slack public sector" - when in fact most people (or profit-requiring companies) can't - is a dangerous mix. |
Agreed. It does strike me as odd though that there are so few tax bands. It's a bit of a hop, skip and jump from the 20% basic rate to the 40% higher. Could introducing more be seen as a way to make them feel less punitive I wonder? | |
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| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:51 - May 22 with 1246 views | Guthrum |
| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:47 - May 22 by footers |
Agreed. It does strike me as odd though that there are so few tax bands. It's a bit of a hop, skip and jump from the 20% basic rate to the 40% higher. Could introducing more be seen as a way to make them feel less punitive I wonder? |
The more complex the system, the more admin (and cost thereof) it takes to run. | |
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| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:55 - May 22 with 1241 views | clive_baker |
| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:44 - May 22 by Herbivore |
But many of them aren't paying their taxes, which is the bit you keep ignoring. If they have separate legal entities here paying UK tax then great, but many don't and we shouldn't enable that. If they are trading here and making money here they should pay their dues. |
I'm not ignoring that. You don't appear to have understood the point I'm making. I understand many are avoiding taxes. My point is at what point do we become worse off by enforcing these businesses to pay tax. I'm talking about putting numbers on it, and how difficult that is given the many variables around job creation, wage inflation etc. | |
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| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:59 - May 22 with 1233 views | Herbivore |
| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:55 - May 22 by clive_baker |
I'm not ignoring that. You don't appear to have understood the point I'm making. I understand many are avoiding taxes. My point is at what point do we become worse off by enforcing these businesses to pay tax. I'm talking about putting numbers on it, and how difficult that is given the many variables around job creation, wage inflation etc. |
Given the amount of money these corporate giants are making in the UK there would have to be evidence of some very significant economic downsides for it to not be worthwhile enforcing our tax laws on them. | |
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| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 12:01 - May 22 with 1225 views | clive_baker |
| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:47 - May 22 by footers |
Agreed. It does strike me as odd though that there are so few tax bands. It's a bit of a hop, skip and jump from the 20% basic rate to the 40% higher. Could introducing more be seen as a way to make them feel less punitive I wonder? |
That's an interesting point. Thinking out loud, would you like to see a rough breakdown of where your tax is going? Making up the numbers for a second but supposing you pay £1,000 a month tax and saw it listed on your payslip as:
£200 NHS
£200 State Pensions
£100 Education
£100 Defence
£200 Other Public Services
£100 Transport
£100 Other
Would something like that make it more palatable / transparent? I mean it's not hard to work out if you were interested based on rough allocations of public spending, but imagine the people who would seek to do that aren't the people that would be so resentful of paying taxes.
I do agree with the general point that people are so resentful of paying taxes, but so quick to use the wonderful NHS when required but perhaps not putting the 2 together. | |
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| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 12:02 - May 22 with 1224 views | jeera |
| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:51 - May 22 by Guthrum |
The more complex the system, the more admin (and cost thereof) it takes to run. |
Government departments and several corporations would need to upgrade their abacuses? |  |
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| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 12:05 - May 22 with 1217 views | Herbivore |
| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 12:01 - May 22 by clive_baker |
That's an interesting point. Thinking out loud, would you like to see a rough breakdown of where your tax is going? Making up the numbers for a second but supposing you pay £1,000 a month tax and saw it listed on your payslip as:
£200 NHS
£200 State Pensions
£100 Education
£100 Defence
£200 Other Public Services
£100 Transport
£100 Other
Would something like that make it more palatable / transparent? I mean it's not hard to work out if you were interested based on rough allocations of public spending, but imagine the people who would seek to do that aren't the people that would be so resentful of paying taxes.
I do agree with the general point that people are so resentful of paying taxes, but so quick to use the wonderful NHS when required but perhaps not putting the 2 together. |
They do an annual tax breakdown showing exactly that. Have you not had one? Maybe not all areas do them. | |
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| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 12:08 - May 22 with 1210 views | footers |
| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 12:01 - May 22 by clive_baker |
That's an interesting point. Thinking out loud, would you like to see a rough breakdown of where your tax is going? Making up the numbers for a second but supposing you pay £1,000 a month tax and saw it listed on your payslip as:
£200 NHS
£200 State Pensions
£100 Education
£100 Defence
£200 Other Public Services
£100 Transport
£100 Other
Would something like that make it more palatable / transparent? I mean it's not hard to work out if you were interested based on rough allocations of public spending, but imagine the people who would seek to do that aren't the people that would be so resentful of paying taxes.
I do agree with the general point that people are so resentful of paying taxes, but so quick to use the wonderful NHS when required but perhaps not putting the 2 together. |
Here's the current breakdown (well, as of 2016/17):
I actually think that looks a pretty fair distribution to me.
IIRC the government does send out that breakdown in pie chart form on tax returns now, which makes it a lot clearer where your money's going. | |
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| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 12:09 - May 22 with 1207 views | clive_baker |
| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 12:05 - May 22 by Herbivore |
They do an annual tax breakdown showing exactly that. Have you not had one? Maybe not all areas do them. |
I don't believe I've ever had that. Personally I don't resent paying the tax I pay, nor do I think it's an unreasonably rate. I question this governments ability to redistribute it in the best areas possible but that's another question altogether. | |
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| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 12:13 - May 22 with 1196 views | clive_baker |
| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 12:08 - May 22 by footers |
Here's the current breakdown (well, as of 2016/17):
I actually think that looks a pretty fair distribution to me.
IIRC the government does send out that breakdown in pie chart form on tax returns now, which makes it a lot clearer where your money's going. |
Interest on debt is nearly half of what we spend on Education.
Booo, EU. Booo. Etc. | |
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| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 12:14 - May 22 with 1192 views | Herbivore |
| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 12:09 - May 22 by clive_baker |
I don't believe I've ever had that. Personally I don't resent paying the tax I pay, nor do I think it's an unreasonably rate. I question this governments ability to redistribute it in the best areas possible but that's another question altogether. |
Yeah same here. The pie chart thingy they send out annually is quite interesting, but usually ends up in the recycling after 5 minutes. I wonder why you've not had one, sounds like Footers has had one as well. | |
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| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 12:14 - May 22 with 1187 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 12:08 - May 22 by footers |
Here's the current breakdown (well, as of 2016/17):
I actually think that looks a pretty fair distribution to me.
IIRC the government does send out that breakdown in pie chart form on tax returns now, which makes it a lot clearer where your money's going. |
I think we should blow some of these completely out of proportion and get really arsey about it. Let's start with the bottom one. |  |
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| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 12:15 - May 22 with 1186 views | footers |
| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 12:14 - May 22 by Herbivore |
Yeah same here. The pie chart thingy they send out annually is quite interesting, but usually ends up in the recycling after 5 minutes. I wonder why you've not had one, sounds like Footers has had one as well. |
It was a break down in theory of where my money would be going were I stupid enough to pay tax. | |
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| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 14:17 - May 22 with 1131 views | No9 |
| Pretty sure austerity has had its' time boyos on 11:47 - May 22 by footers |
Agreed. It does strike me as odd though that there are so few tax bands. It's a bit of a hop, skip and jump from the 20% basic rate to the 40% higher. Could introducing more be seen as a way to make them feel less punitive I wonder? |
This goes back to the 80's where the ideology was to reduce direct taxation and increase indirect taxation.
Before that there were several tax bands (a bit complicated?) and a lot of tax deductible items.
The result was, those at the bottom, a serious increase in tax to be paid | | | |
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