| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? 11:32 - Jun 7 with 3560 views | No9 |
Sorry but I think this is important to us all-
Dominic Raab a ardent brexiteer (& failed brexit secretary) want's to shut down the HoP to get brexit through. & at least one government minister (for Children) is supporting him?
https://www.ft.com/content/ed51dbdc-8862-11e9-a028-86cea8523dc2
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| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:33 - Jun 7 with 3546 views | J2BLUE |
Raab is a pr1ck.
It seems Boris is going to get it anyway. His odds have crashed with the bookies so I can only assume big names have been backing him and money has piled on him winning. |  |
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| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:35 - Jun 7 with 3539 views | Cotty |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:33 - Jun 7 by J2BLUE |
Raab is a pr1ck.
It seems Boris is going to get it anyway. His odds have crashed with the bookies so I can only assume big names have been backing him and money has piled on him winning. |
Raab is quite a convenience for Boris, it makes his brand of extremism look reasonable and tempered. |  | | |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:41 - Jun 7 with 3517 views | wkj |
Although I back the sentiment in this page you and other people need to sodding well stop these sorts of thread titles. If you think all or even a significant portion of brexit backers would support this you're utterly wrong.
Hyperbole or not its this kind of tribalism bulls*** that keeps the civilians of country in such a worked up contentious state of uncertenty |  |
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| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:41 - Jun 7 with 3519 views | itfcjoe |
Good bit by Ian Dunt today on it all:
The scale of the degeneration is now quite startling. As expected, the Tory leadership race has created the worst possible dynamic for the party. Every day the contenders now have to say something even more vigorously insane than what they said before just to stay in contention.
The topic this week was prorogation. This would involve basically dismissing parliament so that the government can force through no-deal. Dominic Raab, egged on by the Tory Jacobins at the ERG, is seriously proposing this. We should call it what it is, or rather what we would call it if it were to take place in another country: a coup. A government without a majority would be dismissing the democratically-elected assembly in order to implement an extreme policy measure for which it has no mandate.
In reality, there are several legal protections against this course of action. None of them are watertight, but the British constitution should be just about robust enough to deal with anyone foolish enough to try it. John Bercow would prevent it. This would involve a vote if parliament was already sitting. Or, if it wasn't, it would possibly see it decide to sit independently of government, a kind of village panto version of the English Civil War. And if all that failed, the Queen, poor thing, could intervene. And after that the courts. One of those things, almost certainly the first, would work. But it's revealing, and quite unutterably ghastly, that it is being mentioned.
Raab is pitching to the right of Boris Johnson, which is not as lonely a space as you might imagine. Esther McVey has found it, and followed the path from there to the outer limits of the reservation, and then just kept on walking. This week she called for a purge of all Remain voters from Cabinet. Last week, she demanded that Britain create an 'invisible border' in Ireland before October. Perhaps she wanted Wonder Woman to arrive with her invisible plane and help with the construction effort. Andrea Leadsom is there too, ruling out even an attempt at renegotiation and demanding no-deal. Insanity is a hot ticket in summer 2019.
It's like watching a documentary about an Amazonian tribe which has never had contact with human civilisation. You watch fascinated as they go around their bizarre rituals, like reciting Article 24 of the GATT or talking in Bizarro world opposites about the effects of US free trade agreements. The only way you could possibly say this stuff, or worse yet believe it, is if you had given up all interest in the outside world for a sustained period of time.
The EU will not get rid of the backstop. The plan with the backstop will not get through parliament. These are the realities. They've been the realities for some time and it is tiresome to have to keep on repeating them. They are the basic building blocks around which you need to formulate your policy. But instead of doing so the candidates have magicked up some alternate reality where these things do not apply.
What a tedious thing to base an imaginary world on. They could have at least have invented jet packs, or great roving digital dinosaurs soaring through the sky. Instead we get this maddening rubix cube of nonsense.
Almost every candidate, from the swivel-eyed, like Raab, to the more reasonable, like Michael Gove, want to fix the backstop problem using the legendary "alternative arrangements" long proposed by the ERG. It is quite remarkable the way this phrase has entered the debate without anyone ever really asking what it actually designates.
It is so profoundly childlike. They do not like Scenario A, so they propose Scenario B. What is Scenario B? Well, it's an alternative. And what is the alternative? Not A. And round and round we go, on a logic loop. It's like watching your own brain swirl down a drain.
There are certain things you can do to reduce the friction on borders, including trusted traders schemes, pre-and-post crossing declarations, information sharing between customs authorities and hands-off high-tech surveillance. But this is a million miles from the sci-fi fantasy land the mythical 'alternative arrangements' have occupied.
They would still involve checks on the border for food products. They would involve checks away from the border for other issues, and this infrastructure would be no less a piece of infrastructure by virtue of being a few miles off. They would still raise the problem of what you do when a lorry approaches which has not become a trusted trader. Do you let it pass and risk any old rubbish come into your territory? Or do you stop it and create a de facto border? Most importantly of all, they would still be installed without the consent of the communities who actually live there, on either side of the border.
Still. No need to worry about that. Alternative arrangements will save us. We can use these imaginary solutions to win an imaginary negotiation with the EU, conducted under an imaginary time frame, and then pass an imaginary bill which will receive the imaginary consent of an imaginary House of Commons. Job done.
That is where the Conservative party is right now. This is the mental space it occupies. And the only time it rears its head out of the fairy tale, it threatens - in a way that is genuinely alarming - the basic democratic functions upon which the country operates. It is a pitiful, godawful state of affairs. And there's weeks more of it to go. |  |
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| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:41 - Jun 7 with 3511 views | pickles110564 |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:33 - Jun 7 by J2BLUE |
Raab is a pr1ck.
It seems Boris is going to get it anyway. His odds have crashed with the bookies so I can only assume big names have been backing him and money has piled on him winning. |
Unfortunately it would seem the only at the moment to get this through would be with Raab as PM |  | | |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:47 - Jun 7 with 3495 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
What is stark is how the Tories (and I have been a Tory voter) misinterpret nearly every signal from the voting public.
They are virtually committing long term suicide by trying to keep their older voters happy.
Somehow the have come to the view that the ONLY thing the public want is a HARD brexit. This simply isn't true.
I voted to remain, but I accept that we will leave. I firmly believe that there is not a majority wanting to see a hard brexit.
The mind boggles that the referendum started and finished with a Yes / No vote on such a complex issue.
There should have been a second round of votes where the Govt carried out further polls of the 52% to identify what their wishes were. |  |
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| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:50 - Jun 7 with 3476 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:41 - Jun 7 by wkj |
Although I back the sentiment in this page you and other people need to sodding well stop these sorts of thread titles. If you think all or even a significant portion of brexit backers would support this you're utterly wrong.
Hyperbole or not its this kind of tribalism bulls*** that keeps the civilians of country in such a worked up contentious state of uncertenty |
Agreed, one thing thats hasnt been good from all this is the grouping of;
Brexiteers
and
Remoaners
That creates a divide and assume that there are only two possible views on the whole debate. I voted remain, but dont see myself as a 'remoaner' and I dont class all leave voters as hard line brexiteers. | |
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| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:55 - Jun 7 with 3460 views | giant_stow |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:41 - Jun 7 by wkj |
Although I back the sentiment in this page you and other people need to sodding well stop these sorts of thread titles. If you think all or even a significant portion of brexit backers would support this you're utterly wrong.
Hyperbole or not its this kind of tribalism bulls*** that keeps the civilians of country in such a worked up contentious state of uncertenty |
having read Dunt's piece which Joe linked to, maybe the thread title's not so far off. |  |
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| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:56 - Jun 7 with 3453 views | WeWereZombies |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:41 - Jun 7 by pickles110564 |
Unfortunately it would seem the only at the moment to get this through would be with Raab as PM |
But that is untenable so it is clearly time to give Brexit the elbow and get on with the pressing issues of real life that have been ignored for far too long. |  |
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| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:57 - Jun 7 with 3453 views | SWGF |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:41 - Jun 7 by itfcjoe |
Good bit by Ian Dunt today on it all:
The scale of the degeneration is now quite startling. As expected, the Tory leadership race has created the worst possible dynamic for the party. Every day the contenders now have to say something even more vigorously insane than what they said before just to stay in contention.
The topic this week was prorogation. This would involve basically dismissing parliament so that the government can force through no-deal. Dominic Raab, egged on by the Tory Jacobins at the ERG, is seriously proposing this. We should call it what it is, or rather what we would call it if it were to take place in another country: a coup. A government without a majority would be dismissing the democratically-elected assembly in order to implement an extreme policy measure for which it has no mandate.
In reality, there are several legal protections against this course of action. None of them are watertight, but the British constitution should be just about robust enough to deal with anyone foolish enough to try it. John Bercow would prevent it. This would involve a vote if parliament was already sitting. Or, if it wasn't, it would possibly see it decide to sit independently of government, a kind of village panto version of the English Civil War. And if all that failed, the Queen, poor thing, could intervene. And after that the courts. One of those things, almost certainly the first, would work. But it's revealing, and quite unutterably ghastly, that it is being mentioned.
Raab is pitching to the right of Boris Johnson, which is not as lonely a space as you might imagine. Esther McVey has found it, and followed the path from there to the outer limits of the reservation, and then just kept on walking. This week she called for a purge of all Remain voters from Cabinet. Last week, she demanded that Britain create an 'invisible border' in Ireland before October. Perhaps she wanted Wonder Woman to arrive with her invisible plane and help with the construction effort. Andrea Leadsom is there too, ruling out even an attempt at renegotiation and demanding no-deal. Insanity is a hot ticket in summer 2019.
It's like watching a documentary about an Amazonian tribe which has never had contact with human civilisation. You watch fascinated as they go around their bizarre rituals, like reciting Article 24 of the GATT or talking in Bizarro world opposites about the effects of US free trade agreements. The only way you could possibly say this stuff, or worse yet believe it, is if you had given up all interest in the outside world for a sustained period of time.
The EU will not get rid of the backstop. The plan with the backstop will not get through parliament. These are the realities. They've been the realities for some time and it is tiresome to have to keep on repeating them. They are the basic building blocks around which you need to formulate your policy. But instead of doing so the candidates have magicked up some alternate reality where these things do not apply.
What a tedious thing to base an imaginary world on. They could have at least have invented jet packs, or great roving digital dinosaurs soaring through the sky. Instead we get this maddening rubix cube of nonsense.
Almost every candidate, from the swivel-eyed, like Raab, to the more reasonable, like Michael Gove, want to fix the backstop problem using the legendary "alternative arrangements" long proposed by the ERG. It is quite remarkable the way this phrase has entered the debate without anyone ever really asking what it actually designates.
It is so profoundly childlike. They do not like Scenario A, so they propose Scenario B. What is Scenario B? Well, it's an alternative. And what is the alternative? Not A. And round and round we go, on a logic loop. It's like watching your own brain swirl down a drain.
There are certain things you can do to reduce the friction on borders, including trusted traders schemes, pre-and-post crossing declarations, information sharing between customs authorities and hands-off high-tech surveillance. But this is a million miles from the sci-fi fantasy land the mythical 'alternative arrangements' have occupied.
They would still involve checks on the border for food products. They would involve checks away from the border for other issues, and this infrastructure would be no less a piece of infrastructure by virtue of being a few miles off. They would still raise the problem of what you do when a lorry approaches which has not become a trusted trader. Do you let it pass and risk any old rubbish come into your territory? Or do you stop it and create a de facto border? Most importantly of all, they would still be installed without the consent of the communities who actually live there, on either side of the border.
Still. No need to worry about that. Alternative arrangements will save us. We can use these imaginary solutions to win an imaginary negotiation with the EU, conducted under an imaginary time frame, and then pass an imaginary bill which will receive the imaginary consent of an imaginary House of Commons. Job done.
That is where the Conservative party is right now. This is the mental space it occupies. And the only time it rears its head out of the fairy tale, it threatens - in a way that is genuinely alarming - the basic democratic functions upon which the country operates. It is a pitiful, godawful state of affairs. And there's weeks more of it to go. |
He could have stopped at "The EU will not get rid of the backstop. The plan with the backstop will not get through parliament". That's where we're at and what everyone seems happy to ignore until they're elected as PM and beginning to hit their head against the same wall.
Also, when Gove is being described as a "more reasonable" alternative to anything, then something's gone awry. |  |
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| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 14:02 - Jun 7 with 3362 views | Guthrum |
As far as I can make out (after an interesting thread on here the other day), the only way he could do that would be by using the Cabinet as a quorum of the Privy Council. Which, of course, would require the approval of other senior ministers.
Even if it succeeded, he'd be likely to face major trouble in the Commons (defections, rebellions within his own party, votes of no confidence). Possibly a forced General Election.
The House has never liked people trying to ride rough-shod over it. |  |
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| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 14:19 - Jun 7 with 3329 views | No9 |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 14:02 - Jun 7 by Guthrum |
As far as I can make out (after an interesting thread on here the other day), the only way he could do that would be by using the Cabinet as a quorum of the Privy Council. Which, of course, would require the approval of other senior ministers.
Even if it succeeded, he'd be likely to face major trouble in the Commons (defections, rebellions within his own party, votes of no confidence). Possibly a forced General Election.
The House has never liked people trying to ride rough-shod over it. |
The Speaker made it very clear yesterday this cannot happen.
However, havent the tories tried to get rid of this Speaker? | | | |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 14:23 - Jun 7 with 3323 views | Oldsmoker |
The nominations for PM go in on Monday.
The contest hasn't officially started yet.
This is all about getting to be PM and the winner will claim (like Boris and the 350m) that what they said wasn't meant to be taken literally.
If they start slagging each other off and providing "dirt" on their rivals to newspapers then the country might come to the conclusion of "none of the above". I've already decided "none of the above". |  |
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| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 14:23 - Jun 7 with 3322 views | No9 |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:41 - Jun 7 by itfcjoe |
Good bit by Ian Dunt today on it all:
The scale of the degeneration is now quite startling. As expected, the Tory leadership race has created the worst possible dynamic for the party. Every day the contenders now have to say something even more vigorously insane than what they said before just to stay in contention.
The topic this week was prorogation. This would involve basically dismissing parliament so that the government can force through no-deal. Dominic Raab, egged on by the Tory Jacobins at the ERG, is seriously proposing this. We should call it what it is, or rather what we would call it if it were to take place in another country: a coup. A government without a majority would be dismissing the democratically-elected assembly in order to implement an extreme policy measure for which it has no mandate.
In reality, there are several legal protections against this course of action. None of them are watertight, but the British constitution should be just about robust enough to deal with anyone foolish enough to try it. John Bercow would prevent it. This would involve a vote if parliament was already sitting. Or, if it wasn't, it would possibly see it decide to sit independently of government, a kind of village panto version of the English Civil War. And if all that failed, the Queen, poor thing, could intervene. And after that the courts. One of those things, almost certainly the first, would work. But it's revealing, and quite unutterably ghastly, that it is being mentioned.
Raab is pitching to the right of Boris Johnson, which is not as lonely a space as you might imagine. Esther McVey has found it, and followed the path from there to the outer limits of the reservation, and then just kept on walking. This week she called for a purge of all Remain voters from Cabinet. Last week, she demanded that Britain create an 'invisible border' in Ireland before October. Perhaps she wanted Wonder Woman to arrive with her invisible plane and help with the construction effort. Andrea Leadsom is there too, ruling out even an attempt at renegotiation and demanding no-deal. Insanity is a hot ticket in summer 2019.
It's like watching a documentary about an Amazonian tribe which has never had contact with human civilisation. You watch fascinated as they go around their bizarre rituals, like reciting Article 24 of the GATT or talking in Bizarro world opposites about the effects of US free trade agreements. The only way you could possibly say this stuff, or worse yet believe it, is if you had given up all interest in the outside world for a sustained period of time.
The EU will not get rid of the backstop. The plan with the backstop will not get through parliament. These are the realities. They've been the realities for some time and it is tiresome to have to keep on repeating them. They are the basic building blocks around which you need to formulate your policy. But instead of doing so the candidates have magicked up some alternate reality where these things do not apply.
What a tedious thing to base an imaginary world on. They could have at least have invented jet packs, or great roving digital dinosaurs soaring through the sky. Instead we get this maddening rubix cube of nonsense.
Almost every candidate, from the swivel-eyed, like Raab, to the more reasonable, like Michael Gove, want to fix the backstop problem using the legendary "alternative arrangements" long proposed by the ERG. It is quite remarkable the way this phrase has entered the debate without anyone ever really asking what it actually designates.
It is so profoundly childlike. They do not like Scenario A, so they propose Scenario B. What is Scenario B? Well, it's an alternative. And what is the alternative? Not A. And round and round we go, on a logic loop. It's like watching your own brain swirl down a drain.
There are certain things you can do to reduce the friction on borders, including trusted traders schemes, pre-and-post crossing declarations, information sharing between customs authorities and hands-off high-tech surveillance. But this is a million miles from the sci-fi fantasy land the mythical 'alternative arrangements' have occupied.
They would still involve checks on the border for food products. They would involve checks away from the border for other issues, and this infrastructure would be no less a piece of infrastructure by virtue of being a few miles off. They would still raise the problem of what you do when a lorry approaches which has not become a trusted trader. Do you let it pass and risk any old rubbish come into your territory? Or do you stop it and create a de facto border? Most importantly of all, they would still be installed without the consent of the communities who actually live there, on either side of the border.
Still. No need to worry about that. Alternative arrangements will save us. We can use these imaginary solutions to win an imaginary negotiation with the EU, conducted under an imaginary time frame, and then pass an imaginary bill which will receive the imaginary consent of an imaginary House of Commons. Job done.
That is where the Conservative party is right now. This is the mental space it occupies. And the only time it rears its head out of the fairy tale, it threatens - in a way that is genuinely alarming - the basic democratic functions upon which the country operates. It is a pitiful, godawful state of affairs. And there's weeks more of it to go. |
That is an interesting article and raises all the questions sensible people raise BUT, we are where we are.
Today the brexit party delivered a letter to No. 10 Downing Street demanding they are part of the brexit negotiation (I thought their policy was to leave only no other option?) we shall see what Mrs May as caretaker PM does with it.
But it is a serious situation & not enough MP's are taking it seroiusly enough | | | |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 15:01 - Jun 7 with 3278 views | braveblue |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:41 - Jun 7 by wkj |
Although I back the sentiment in this page you and other people need to sodding well stop these sorts of thread titles. If you think all or even a significant portion of brexit backers would support this you're utterly wrong.
Hyperbole or not its this kind of tribalism bulls*** that keeps the civilians of country in such a worked up contentious state of uncertenty |
Quite right | | | |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 15:05 - Jun 7 with 3268 views | BlueBadger |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:41 - Jun 7 by itfcjoe |
Good bit by Ian Dunt today on it all:
The scale of the degeneration is now quite startling. As expected, the Tory leadership race has created the worst possible dynamic for the party. Every day the contenders now have to say something even more vigorously insane than what they said before just to stay in contention.
The topic this week was prorogation. This would involve basically dismissing parliament so that the government can force through no-deal. Dominic Raab, egged on by the Tory Jacobins at the ERG, is seriously proposing this. We should call it what it is, or rather what we would call it if it were to take place in another country: a coup. A government without a majority would be dismissing the democratically-elected assembly in order to implement an extreme policy measure for which it has no mandate.
In reality, there are several legal protections against this course of action. None of them are watertight, but the British constitution should be just about robust enough to deal with anyone foolish enough to try it. John Bercow would prevent it. This would involve a vote if parliament was already sitting. Or, if it wasn't, it would possibly see it decide to sit independently of government, a kind of village panto version of the English Civil War. And if all that failed, the Queen, poor thing, could intervene. And after that the courts. One of those things, almost certainly the first, would work. But it's revealing, and quite unutterably ghastly, that it is being mentioned.
Raab is pitching to the right of Boris Johnson, which is not as lonely a space as you might imagine. Esther McVey has found it, and followed the path from there to the outer limits of the reservation, and then just kept on walking. This week she called for a purge of all Remain voters from Cabinet. Last week, she demanded that Britain create an 'invisible border' in Ireland before October. Perhaps she wanted Wonder Woman to arrive with her invisible plane and help with the construction effort. Andrea Leadsom is there too, ruling out even an attempt at renegotiation and demanding no-deal. Insanity is a hot ticket in summer 2019.
It's like watching a documentary about an Amazonian tribe which has never had contact with human civilisation. You watch fascinated as they go around their bizarre rituals, like reciting Article 24 of the GATT or talking in Bizarro world opposites about the effects of US free trade agreements. The only way you could possibly say this stuff, or worse yet believe it, is if you had given up all interest in the outside world for a sustained period of time.
The EU will not get rid of the backstop. The plan with the backstop will not get through parliament. These are the realities. They've been the realities for some time and it is tiresome to have to keep on repeating them. They are the basic building blocks around which you need to formulate your policy. But instead of doing so the candidates have magicked up some alternate reality where these things do not apply.
What a tedious thing to base an imaginary world on. They could have at least have invented jet packs, or great roving digital dinosaurs soaring through the sky. Instead we get this maddening rubix cube of nonsense.
Almost every candidate, from the swivel-eyed, like Raab, to the more reasonable, like Michael Gove, want to fix the backstop problem using the legendary "alternative arrangements" long proposed by the ERG. It is quite remarkable the way this phrase has entered the debate without anyone ever really asking what it actually designates.
It is so profoundly childlike. They do not like Scenario A, so they propose Scenario B. What is Scenario B? Well, it's an alternative. And what is the alternative? Not A. And round and round we go, on a logic loop. It's like watching your own brain swirl down a drain.
There are certain things you can do to reduce the friction on borders, including trusted traders schemes, pre-and-post crossing declarations, information sharing between customs authorities and hands-off high-tech surveillance. But this is a million miles from the sci-fi fantasy land the mythical 'alternative arrangements' have occupied.
They would still involve checks on the border for food products. They would involve checks away from the border for other issues, and this infrastructure would be no less a piece of infrastructure by virtue of being a few miles off. They would still raise the problem of what you do when a lorry approaches which has not become a trusted trader. Do you let it pass and risk any old rubbish come into your territory? Or do you stop it and create a de facto border? Most importantly of all, they would still be installed without the consent of the communities who actually live there, on either side of the border.
Still. No need to worry about that. Alternative arrangements will save us. We can use these imaginary solutions to win an imaginary negotiation with the EU, conducted under an imaginary time frame, and then pass an imaginary bill which will receive the imaginary consent of an imaginary House of Commons. Job done.
That is where the Conservative party is right now. This is the mental space it occupies. And the only time it rears its head out of the fairy tale, it threatens - in a way that is genuinely alarming - the basic democratic functions upon which the country operates. It is a pitiful, godawful state of affairs. And there's weeks more of it to go. |
Still, at least we've got a competent opposition with a coherent, consistent policy of their own. |  |
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| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 15:13 - Jun 7 with 3246 views | Herbivore |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:33 - Jun 7 by J2BLUE |
Raab is a pr1ck.
It seems Boris is going to get it anyway. His odds have crashed with the bookies so I can only assume big names have been backing him and money has piled on him winning. |
I see you've done a 180 on Raab. This is good news, J2. He's awful. |  |
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| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 15:30 - Jun 7 with 3219 views | Oldsmoker |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 15:05 - Jun 7 by BlueBadger |
Still, at least we've got a competent opposition with a coherent, consistent policy of their own. |
You won't let it go.
Jezza just pulled off a stonking by-election victory to.....er, win a seat that was already Labour.
He has a clear policy on fence-sitting and the causes of fence-sitting.
You're being unkind to the man. | |
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| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 15:39 - Jun 7 with 3194 views | No9 |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:41 - Jun 7 by wkj |
Although I back the sentiment in this page you and other people need to sodding well stop these sorts of thread titles. If you think all or even a significant portion of brexit backers would support this you're utterly wrong.
Hyperbole or not its this kind of tribalism bulls*** that keeps the civilians of country in such a worked up contentious state of uncertenty |
" If you think all or even a significant portion of brexit backers would support this you're utterly wrong."
As I posted, a government Minister supports this despite the fact the speaker says it won't happen they may try to remove him.
Despite what the legal situation is Messrs Farage & Tice are demanding a seat at the brexit negotiations (despite the fact they are over).
It is clear who is creating the problems | | | |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 15:41 - Jun 7 with 3185 views | No9 |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 15:30 - Jun 7 by Oldsmoker |
You won't let it go.
Jezza just pulled off a stonking by-election victory to.....er, win a seat that was already Labour.
He has a clear policy on fence-sitting and the causes of fence-sitting.
You're being unkind to the man. |
Isn't it time for labour party members to tell the people at the top what they want? | | | |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 15:42 - Jun 7 with 3185 views | Herbivore |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:47 - Jun 7 by Marshalls_Mullet |
What is stark is how the Tories (and I have been a Tory voter) misinterpret nearly every signal from the voting public.
They are virtually committing long term suicide by trying to keep their older voters happy.
Somehow the have come to the view that the ONLY thing the public want is a HARD brexit. This simply isn't true.
I voted to remain, but I accept that we will leave. I firmly believe that there is not a majority wanting to see a hard brexit.
The mind boggles that the referendum started and finished with a Yes / No vote on such a complex issue.
There should have been a second round of votes where the Govt carried out further polls of the 52% to identify what their wishes were. |
Really not sure about your idea there. Excluding nearly half the electorate from expressing a view isn't very democratic. Plus it's a secret ballot so not really workable. Plus whatever option got the most support, it's still only be wanted by a minority of individuals and by significantly fewer individuals than voted remain.
The more sensible thing would have been to put a concrete Brexit option on the referendum in the first place, something like a Norway style option perhaps. Sure we couldn't actually negotiate it until we triggered Article 50 but some sort of clear and coherent vision that wasn't unicorns and rainbows would have been a start. | |
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| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 16:11 - Jun 7 with 3135 views | No9 |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:47 - Jun 7 by Marshalls_Mullet |
What is stark is how the Tories (and I have been a Tory voter) misinterpret nearly every signal from the voting public.
They are virtually committing long term suicide by trying to keep their older voters happy.
Somehow the have come to the view that the ONLY thing the public want is a HARD brexit. This simply isn't true.
I voted to remain, but I accept that we will leave. I firmly believe that there is not a majority wanting to see a hard brexit.
The mind boggles that the referendum started and finished with a Yes / No vote on such a complex issue.
There should have been a second round of votes where the Govt carried out further polls of the 52% to identify what their wishes were. |
I listened to Sir John Curtice this morning he is making the point that if the tories do NOT deliver brexit they are finished as a political party. He went on to say there is no eveidence they can deliver brexit in any shape of form.
I believe the realites of leaving the EU are starting to be understood by a lot more people.
The WTO falsehoods are beginning to be understood by more people.
The realities of an American trade deal will emerge soon, not just the NHS but the efffect on agriculture and other industries where Trump needs to sell the surpluses created by his trade wars.
The latest economic news in the UK should concern everyone | | | |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 16:25 - Jun 7 with 3122 views | Swansea_Blue |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 11:41 - Jun 7 by wkj |
Although I back the sentiment in this page you and other people need to sodding well stop these sorts of thread titles. If you think all or even a significant portion of brexit backers would support this you're utterly wrong.
Hyperbole or not its this kind of tribalism bulls*** that keeps the civilians of country in such a worked up contentious state of uncertenty |
I agree. We don't want to tar all the deluded, faux patriotic, raving lunatics with the same brush do we?  |  |
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| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 16:28 - Jun 7 with 3113 views | wkj |
| So the brexiters don't believe in democracy after all? on 16:25 - Jun 7 by Swansea_Blue |
I agree. We don't want to tar all the deluded, faux patriotic, raving lunatics with the same brush do we? |
This | |
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