| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA 20:50 - Jun 11 with 2994 views | Trequartista |
And VAR didn't overturn it!
Absolutely all over the shop. |  |
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| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 20:54 - Jun 11 with 2334 views | lowhouseblue |
i would say two. var has just introduced a different sort of unfairness. not sure the net gain is real. [Post edited 11 Jun 2019 20:57]
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| And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show |
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| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 20:56 - Jun 11 with 2324 views | Trequartista |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 20:54 - Jun 11 by lowhouseblue |
i would say two. var has just introduced a different sort of unfairness. not sure the net gain is real. [Post edited 11 Jun 2019 20:57]
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Yes on the first one the referee appeared to lose patience and restarted the game whilst it was still being analysed. | |
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| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 20:56 - Jun 11 with 2324 views | J2BLUE |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 20:54 - Jun 11 by lowhouseblue |
i would say two. var has just introduced a different sort of unfairness. not sure the net gain is real. [Post edited 11 Jun 2019 20:57]
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Goal line technology = amazing
VAR for every little thing = total sh1te. |  |
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| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 21:11 - Jun 11 with 2276 views | bahri |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 20:56 - Jun 11 by J2BLUE |
Goal line technology = amazing
VAR for every little thing = total sh1te. |
In a nutshell...spot on. |  |
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| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 21:17 - Jun 11 with 2266 views | vilanovablue |
I'm a supporter of VAR and appreciate a lot of the current concern, worry and dislike. The thing which needs to be remembered is this a very new thing and there are plenty of flaws that need to be ironed out. Consistency is obviously lacking but will improve over time. The decision process will speed up as people properly understand how to use it and its use is better implemented. Ultimately if your team is the victim of a poor decision wouldn't you want to see the right one made? How many threads were on here last season about terrible refereeing? |  | | |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 21:25 - Jun 11 with 2233 views | bahri |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 21:17 - Jun 11 by vilanovablue |
I'm a supporter of VAR and appreciate a lot of the current concern, worry and dislike. The thing which needs to be remembered is this a very new thing and there are plenty of flaws that need to be ironed out. Consistency is obviously lacking but will improve over time. The decision process will speed up as people properly understand how to use it and its use is better implemented. Ultimately if your team is the victim of a poor decision wouldn't you want to see the right one made? How many threads were on here last season about terrible refereeing? |
The flaws should have been sorted before it was put to use.
How many times are they (office based referees) going to replay a decision to reach a decision? They've got to speed it up for it to creditable. | |
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| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 21:26 - Jun 11 with 2230 views | gtsb |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 21:17 - Jun 11 by vilanovablue |
I'm a supporter of VAR and appreciate a lot of the current concern, worry and dislike. The thing which needs to be remembered is this a very new thing and there are plenty of flaws that need to be ironed out. Consistency is obviously lacking but will improve over time. The decision process will speed up as people properly understand how to use it and its use is better implemented. Ultimately if your team is the victim of a poor decision wouldn't you want to see the right one made? How many threads were on here last season about terrible refereeing? |
Controversial decisions in football are what makes the game great and has people talking in the pub on a Saturday night. Try and make every decision perfect and the game starts to die. |  | | |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 21:29 - Jun 11 with 2224 views | vilanovablue |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 21:25 - Jun 11 by bahri |
The flaws should have been sorted before it was put to use.
How many times are they (office based referees) going to replay a decision to reach a decision? They've got to speed it up for it to creditable. |
No plan however perfect survives contact with the enemy the flaws were always going to have to be worked out by using it, to think differently is a little naive unfortunately. | | | |
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| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 21:30 - Jun 11 with 2222 views | Guthrum |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 21:25 - Jun 11 by bahri |
The flaws should have been sorted before it was put to use.
How many times are they (office based referees) going to replay a decision to reach a decision? They've got to speed it up for it to creditable. |
Very difficult to do that. Unexpected situations will arise, or very marginal ones. What seems like a reasonable length of time on paper will feel far too long to fans dubious about its usefulness.
All systems (in any walk of life) need time to be refined once they are actually put into action. |  |
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| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 21:33 - Jun 11 with 2210 views | vilanovablue |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 21:26 - Jun 11 by gtsb |
Controversial decisions in football are what makes the game great and has people talking in the pub on a Saturday night. Try and make every decision perfect and the game starts to die. |
Crap decisions don't make the game frustrating in my opinion especially when there are reasonable solutions. Lampard's goal in the 2010 world cup springs to mind and goal line technology has solved that. This 8s something else which will improve the game in the longer term. | | | |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 21:41 - Jun 11 with 2173 views | jeera |
Fortunately they're going to scrape this one anyway. |  |
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| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 21:43 - Jun 11 with 2169 views | bahri |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 21:29 - Jun 11 by vilanovablue |
No plan however perfect survives contact with the enemy the flaws were always going to have to be worked out by using it, to think differently is a little naive unfortunately. |
Naïve maybe, but as far as I'm concerned it's spoiling the game. Don't like it and ill thought out.
Before, long we will have two referees ( one in each half) and they will give the decisions as instructed through their earpiece. | |
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| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 21:55 - Jun 11 with 2144 views | vilanovablue |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 21:43 - Jun 11 by bahri |
Naïve maybe, but as far as I'm concerned it's spoiling the game. Don't like it and ill thought out.
Before, long we will have two referees ( one in each half) and they will give the decisions as instructed through their earpiece. |
I genuinely don't believe that we'll get to 2 refs for a moment. I understand people don't like it and get it but personally I think it is a good idea used properly which is what they are getting to grips with. I like the idea of the right decisions being made. I know I may be on my own with this. | | | |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 21:59 - Jun 11 with 2136 views | Trequartista |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 21:41 - Jun 11 by jeera |
Fortunately they're going to scrape this one anyway. |
It was women against girls out there. | |
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| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 22:02 - Jun 11 with 2128 views | Trequartista |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 21:17 - Jun 11 by vilanovablue |
I'm a supporter of VAR and appreciate a lot of the current concern, worry and dislike. The thing which needs to be remembered is this a very new thing and there are plenty of flaws that need to be ironed out. Consistency is obviously lacking but will improve over time. The decision process will speed up as people properly understand how to use it and its use is better implemented. Ultimately if your team is the victim of a poor decision wouldn't you want to see the right one made? How many threads were on here last season about terrible refereeing? |
Appreciate it can be fine-tuned and sped up, but there are flaws that can't be ironed out, primarily re-running subjective decisions and changing the fine balance of football. Bringing in something that suddenly increases penalties by say 30%, is equivalent to widening the goals. | |
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| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 22:10 - Jun 11 with 2109 views | sparks |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 22:02 - Jun 11 by Trequartista |
Appreciate it can be fine-tuned and sped up, but there are flaws that can't be ironed out, primarily re-running subjective decisions and changing the fine balance of football. Bringing in something that suddenly increases penalties by say 30%, is equivalent to widening the goals. |
The biggest issue currently is the utterly unecessary change to the perfectly adequate handball law, in reaction to idiots who couldnt understand it properly before. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 22:13 - Jun 11 with 2095 views | vilanovablue |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 22:02 - Jun 11 by Trequartista |
Appreciate it can be fine-tuned and sped up, but there are flaws that can't be ironed out, primarily re-running subjective decisions and changing the fine balance of football. Bringing in something that suddenly increases penalties by say 30%, is equivalent to widening the goals. |
But if the game has laws they aren't subjective that's the point if the laws are better implemented its no bad thing. I also don't want to start throwing about numbers as it's really too early to say and meaningless. | | | |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 22:15 - Jun 11 with 2090 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 21:30 - Jun 11 by Guthrum |
Very difficult to do that. Unexpected situations will arise, or very marginal ones. What seems like a reasonable length of time on paper will feel far too long to fans dubious about its usefulness.
All systems (in any walk of life) need time to be refined once they are actually put into action. |
The biggest issue is that it should only be there to correct a clear and obvious error.
Instead it is being used to try to ensure every decision is perfect.
Clear and obvious errors should be much quicker to identify and correct than the current system is managing. |  |
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| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 22:22 - Jun 11 with 2075 views | vilanovablue |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 22:15 - Jun 11 by Nthsuffolkblue |
The biggest issue is that it should only be there to correct a clear and obvious error.
Instead it is being used to try to ensure every decision is perfect.
Clear and obvious errors should be much quicker to identify and correct than the current system is managing. |
Which is what the current guidance says and I agree with. Your next point is what needs to be ironed out. Hence why I think it is a good idea. | | | |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 22:28 - Jun 11 with 2064 views | Trequartista |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 22:13 - Jun 11 by vilanovablue |
But if the game has laws they aren't subjective that's the point if the laws are better implemented its no bad thing. I also don't want to start throwing about numbers as it's really too early to say and meaningless. |
Fouls and handballs in the penalty area are subjective decisions. What is the point in replacing a debateable decision with a delayed debateable decision. | |
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| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 22:35 - Jun 11 with 2055 views | Trequartista |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 22:15 - Jun 11 by Nthsuffolkblue |
The biggest issue is that it should only be there to correct a clear and obvious error.
Instead it is being used to try to ensure every decision is perfect.
Clear and obvious errors should be much quicker to identify and correct than the current system is managing. |
That's because you can't define "clear and obvious". Where does "clear and obvious" begin and "fairly clear and obvious" end? [Post edited 11 Jun 2019 22:37]
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| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 23:11 - Jun 11 with 2013 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 22:35 - Jun 11 by Trequartista |
That's because you can't define "clear and obvious". Where does "clear and obvious" begin and "fairly clear and obvious" end? [Post edited 11 Jun 2019 22:37]
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It's along the lines of the LBW rule in cricket. The technology has an umpire's call option so there is some doubt and the decision remains whatever the umpire called in the first place.
So, for offside, if a player is clearly daylight beyond the last defender when the ball is played VAR kicks in. However, if it is several replays to establish the attacker's foot might possibly have been beyond it tough, the linesman made a call, live with it.
For a foul/red card/etc, if it is clear there was no contact or there was an elbow etc, call the referee over to have a look and check his call. If there was minimal contact and it is a debatable call, tough.
For the ball out of play, it has to have clearly been seen to be out (presumably where the officials had their view obstructed) none of this guessing from a poor camera angle like the pundits often do.
Maybe it should be a review system where the manager has to refer it to the 4th official and they only get 1 per match which is reset if proven correct.
I am sure it could be better than at present, although I take your point there will still be grey areas. I also take the point mistakes are part of the game and maybe we should accept that includes officials. Whatever the final outcome, it needs to be a system that is much quicker and employed fairly infrequently. | |
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| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 08:24 - Jun 12 with 1915 views | Radlett_blue |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 23:11 - Jun 11 by Nthsuffolkblue |
It's along the lines of the LBW rule in cricket. The technology has an umpire's call option so there is some doubt and the decision remains whatever the umpire called in the first place.
So, for offside, if a player is clearly daylight beyond the last defender when the ball is played VAR kicks in. However, if it is several replays to establish the attacker's foot might possibly have been beyond it tough, the linesman made a call, live with it.
For a foul/red card/etc, if it is clear there was no contact or there was an elbow etc, call the referee over to have a look and check his call. If there was minimal contact and it is a debatable call, tough.
For the ball out of play, it has to have clearly been seen to be out (presumably where the officials had their view obstructed) none of this guessing from a poor camera angle like the pundits often do.
Maybe it should be a review system where the manager has to refer it to the 4th official and they only get 1 per match which is reset if proven correct.
I am sure it could be better than at present, although I take your point there will still be grey areas. I also take the point mistakes are part of the game and maybe we should accept that includes officials. Whatever the final outcome, it needs to be a system that is much quicker and employed fairly infrequently. |
Your "off-side" idea won't work because then there will be the marginal call as to whether it's a close call so not over-ruled or not. Once we start checking off-sides, there will always be marginal calls and that's the whole problem with VAR.
The same for fouls/red cards - most of these are debatable.
Ball out of play - again, many of these will be marginal with TV footage indecisive.
It's already close to ruining the game IMO and its continued use will do so as its use, as in rugby, where they now seem to review every try, will only increase. |  |
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| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 08:53 - Jun 12 with 1893 views | SouperJim |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 23:11 - Jun 11 by Nthsuffolkblue |
It's along the lines of the LBW rule in cricket. The technology has an umpire's call option so there is some doubt and the decision remains whatever the umpire called in the first place.
So, for offside, if a player is clearly daylight beyond the last defender when the ball is played VAR kicks in. However, if it is several replays to establish the attacker's foot might possibly have been beyond it tough, the linesman made a call, live with it.
For a foul/red card/etc, if it is clear there was no contact or there was an elbow etc, call the referee over to have a look and check his call. If there was minimal contact and it is a debatable call, tough.
For the ball out of play, it has to have clearly been seen to be out (presumably where the officials had their view obstructed) none of this guessing from a poor camera angle like the pundits often do.
Maybe it should be a review system where the manager has to refer it to the 4th official and they only get 1 per match which is reset if proven correct.
I am sure it could be better than at present, although I take your point there will still be grey areas. I also take the point mistakes are part of the game and maybe we should accept that includes officials. Whatever the final outcome, it needs to be a system that is much quicker and employed fairly infrequently. |
This is an excellent post and I like the referee's call idea. VAR should only overturn decisions where there is no element of doubt, i.e. something was plainly missed or given incorrectly. For everything else, tiny margins etc, ping it back to the ref.
If they did that, and preferably worked a little quicker, it'd be fine. I'd also advocate a fixed amount of added time for VAR decisions, same as they give a fixed 30 seconds for a goal etc. Added time should never get into double digits. |  |
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| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 08:56 - Jun 12 with 1888 views | Bent_double |
| So tonight a clear penalty not given for USA on 21:30 - Jun 11 by Guthrum |
Very difficult to do that. Unexpected situations will arise, or very marginal ones. What seems like a reasonable length of time on paper will feel far too long to fans dubious about its usefulness.
All systems (in any walk of life) need time to be refined once they are actually put into action. |
We're constantly told that it works perfectly in the Bungesliga, with minimal delays, so why aren't the officials who do it there being asked how to implement it or even run it elsewhere? |  |
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