| Life through JC's eyes..... 12:05 - Jun 15 with 25687 views | hampstead_blue |
Even when caught on camera JC wants to support his mates.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48645280 |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 17:16 - Jun 15 with 4122 views | StokieBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 17:12 - Jun 15 by No9 |
On a double skin tanker the limpet mine would pierce the outer skin but would be very unlikely to pierce the inner skin.
This would show the tanker coud be hit but without the risk of explosion or terrible pollution. |
Statements have say there has been no leaks into the gulf. Given this mines are very plausible.
SB |  |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 17:16 - Jun 15 with 4119 views | StokieBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 16:51 - Jun 15 by BrixtonBlue |
"I've not disagreed with anything JC has said about the matter in any of my posts have I?"
Nope. And I never said you did.
Not sure why you think you and JC might diverge in your opinions. He's asked for credible evidence. If it's forthcoming I'm sure he'll be happy.
All he's done is asked for it. |
Indeed.
Let's wait and see what he says if credible evidence is delivered.
SB | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 17:21 - Jun 15 with 4105 views | Bluesquid |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 16:37 - Jun 15 by StokieBlue |
Iraq was bad, as I've acknowledged. It was also 16 years ago, I suspect most involved have moved on don't you?
Manchester (from the BBC in 2018):
"A previous report into the attack revealed that MI5 had planned to review the risks posed by Abedi - but the meeting was not scheduled to take place before the attack occurred."
So they were looking into it but weren't fast enough - this is entirely different to the points being made.
de Menezes was horrible but that was a mistake and poor operation by the MET not the intellgience agencies.
Nobody is saying they are perfect but your blanket dismissal of them with regards to anything is rather insulting to a large number of people who are doing their best to try and protect the country. We have no idea how many incidents have been prevented yet you make it out like they are sitting around plotting against people and working out ways to lie to the public.
It's shameful.
SB |
"you make it out like they are sitting around plotting against people and working out ways to lie to the public"
No, not at all, your just making stuff up now.
"So they were looking into it but weren't fast enough" - no they weren't, with terrible consequences, an intelligence failure then.
Let's not forget Libya -
“It could not verify the actual threat to civilians posed by the Gaddafi regime; it selectively took elements of Muammar Gaddafi’s rhetoric at face value; and it failed to identify the militant Islamist extremist element in the rebellion. UK strategy was founded on erroneous assumptions and an incomplete understanding of the evidence.”
"It finds the UK’s plans for reconstruction were founded on the same incomplete and inaccurate intelligence that informed the initial military intervention."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/14/mps-deliver-damning-verdict-on-cam [Post edited 15 Jun 2019 17:24]
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 17:24 - Jun 15 with 4094 views | No9 |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 17:16 - Jun 15 by StokieBlue |
Statements have say there has been no leaks into the gulf. Given this mines are very plausible.
SB |
The fire suggests the inner skin has been penetrated allowing oil to leak out. That would also account for the crew abandoning ship.
They probably but the blankets into operation to try and minimise futher risk.
Had the penetration been higher up the hull the risk of the LEL going bang would have been significant. | | | |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 17:47 - Jun 15 with 4055 views | StokieBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 17:24 - Jun 15 by No9 |
The fire suggests the inner skin has been penetrated allowing oil to leak out. That would also account for the crew abandoning ship.
They probably but the blankets into operation to try and minimise futher risk.
Had the penetration been higher up the hull the risk of the LEL going bang would have been significant. |
But the statements say otherwise.
You are making assumptions based on a picture. I thought we couldn't do that based on a video?
You can't have it both ways.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 18:32 - Jun 15 with 4002 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 13:57 - Jun 15 by BrixtonBlue |
Boom! |
How come bluesquid’s post is “boom” (my ten year old grew out of saying boom five years ago) but my post is whatabouterry? |  |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 18:37 - Jun 15 with 4006 views | Churchman |
I believe he does. His stance on the Salisbury debacle was a disgrace but utterly in keeping with his past, his beliefs his loathing if the west including this country and its perceived history. It’s never been challenged even though he would have been aware of the evidence long before the general public. But ‘Jeremy’ is highly fashionable and people hang of every crumb of anti west nonsense he comes out with.
America gets plenty wrong, they have an oaf as a president and they are no friend of this country. But it is not evil in my view And there is no justification for thinking Russia, Iran or anywhere are our friends or anything but despotic and hostile to this country. I believe Corbyn thinks otherwise, I beg to differ.
I’ve no doubt conspiracy theories will flood social media such as the Americans did it to implicate Iran and the momentum believers will lap it up. What about Iraq lies etc etc. But just because Blair and Bush lied, it doesn’t mean that every accusation since, apart fro Messiah Jeremy’s, is also a lie. |  | | |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 18:43 - Jun 15 with 3989 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 18:32 - Jun 15 by GlasgowBlue |
How come bluesquid’s post is “boom” (my ten year old grew out of saying boom five years ago) but my post is whatabouterry? |
The context is entirely different. The discussion about the security forces was focusing on their past, so entirely legitimate. You brought up something from Corbyn's past when his past wasn't part of the discussion (and out of context).
And "boom!" is something I picked up from TWTD. It's not something I'd use in any other sphere. |  |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 18:48 - Jun 15 with 3979 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 18:37 - Jun 15 by Churchman |
I believe he does. His stance on the Salisbury debacle was a disgrace but utterly in keeping with his past, his beliefs his loathing if the west including this country and its perceived history. It’s never been challenged even though he would have been aware of the evidence long before the general public. But ‘Jeremy’ is highly fashionable and people hang of every crumb of anti west nonsense he comes out with.
America gets plenty wrong, they have an oaf as a president and they are no friend of this country. But it is not evil in my view And there is no justification for thinking Russia, Iran or anywhere are our friends or anything but despotic and hostile to this country. I believe Corbyn thinks otherwise, I beg to differ.
I’ve no doubt conspiracy theories will flood social media such as the Americans did it to implicate Iran and the momentum believers will lap it up. What about Iraq lies etc etc. But just because Blair and Bush lied, it doesn’t mean that every accusation since, apart fro Messiah Jeremy’s, is also a lie. |
You're attacking the man.
What about France and Germany not accepting the evidence? You surely have the same vitriol for them?
What about the Japanese captain and his "strange discrepancy"?
What about Hunt saying they're not certain?
Forget about who's calling for caution - don't you think these are all grounds for NOT steaming in all guns blazing?! | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 18:59 - Jun 15 with 3972 views | azuremerlangus |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 18:48 - Jun 15 by BrixtonBlue |
You're attacking the man.
What about France and Germany not accepting the evidence? You surely have the same vitriol for them?
What about the Japanese captain and his "strange discrepancy"?
What about Hunt saying they're not certain?
Forget about who's calling for caution - don't you think these are all grounds for NOT steaming in all guns blazing?! |
Just because the evidence isn't accepted doesn't mean it is a lie.
The Iranian regime are getting very twitchy about the US, the sanctions against them and what military action may take place.
Ultimately what is reported in the press is just the tip of the iceberg to what actually goes on. |  |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 19:08 - Jun 15 with 3945 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 18:43 - Jun 15 by BrixtonBlue |
The context is entirely different. The discussion about the security forces was focusing on their past, so entirely legitimate. You brought up something from Corbyn's past when his past wasn't part of the discussion (and out of context).
And "boom!" is something I picked up from TWTD. It's not something I'd use in any other sphere. |
A thread entitled “Life through JC’s eyes” doesn’t include things he has said in the past?
How odd.
The op even calls the Iranians JC’s mates. Could he be referring to JC’s “past” where he pocketed twenty grand from the Iranian state whilst they executed homosexuals? Or did they just become his mates today? [Post edited 15 Jun 2019 19:11]
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 19:10 - Jun 15 with 3951 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 18:59 - Jun 15 by azuremerlangus |
Just because the evidence isn't accepted doesn't mean it is a lie.
The Iranian regime are getting very twitchy about the US, the sanctions against them and what military action may take place.
Ultimately what is reported in the press is just the tip of the iceberg to what actually goes on. |
I never said it was a lie. And I agree, what is reported is just the tip of the iceberg.
Not sure what any of this has to do with my assertion that Corbyn, and the French and Germans, are right to urge caution and demand more robust evidence. | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 19:13 - Jun 15 with 3944 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 19:08 - Jun 15 by GlasgowBlue |
A thread entitled “Life through JC’s eyes” doesn’t include things he has said in the past?
How odd.
The op even calls the Iranians JC’s mates. Could he be referring to JC’s “past” where he pocketed twenty grand from the Iranian state whilst they executed homosexuals? Or did they just become his mates today? [Post edited 15 Jun 2019 19:11]
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Haha. You're getting desperate mate. I'd forgotten what the title of the thread was but it's not really the point and you're desperately clutching at straws.
Back to the topic, what about France and Germany not accepting the evidence? You surely have the same vitriol for them?
What about the Japanese captain and his "strange discrepancy"?
What about Hunt saying they're not certain?
Forget about who's calling for caution - don't you think these are all grounds for NOT steaming in all guns blazing?! | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 19:15 - Jun 15 with 3933 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 19:10 - Jun 15 by BrixtonBlue |
I never said it was a lie. And I agree, what is reported is just the tip of the iceberg.
Not sure what any of this has to do with my assertion that Corbyn, and the French and Germans, are right to urge caution and demand more robust evidence. |
Could you answer me why JC always doubts the evidence presented by our security services or those of our allies, but jumps straight in to wild conspiracy theories involving Israel despite having absolutely no evidence whatsoever? | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 19:20 - Jun 15 with 3923 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 19:13 - Jun 15 by BrixtonBlue |
Haha. You're getting desperate mate. I'd forgotten what the title of the thread was but it's not really the point and you're desperately clutching at straws.
Back to the topic, what about France and Germany not accepting the evidence? You surely have the same vitriol for them?
What about the Japanese captain and his "strange discrepancy"?
What about Hunt saying they're not certain?
Forget about who's calling for caution - don't you think these are all grounds for NOT steaming in all guns blazing?! |
The title of the thread is on display every time you read a post. So JC’s past views are extremely relevant.
Why start your “desperate” bullsh1t? How about for once in your life put your hands up and say you got it wrong! I’ll leave you to ponder that on your Saturday night. I’m out. | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 19:29 - Jun 15 with 3907 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 19:15 - Jun 15 by GlasgowBlue |
Could you answer me why JC always doubts the evidence presented by our security services or those of our allies, but jumps straight in to wild conspiracy theories involving Israel despite having absolutely no evidence whatsoever? |
Always? | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 19:34 - Jun 15 with 3895 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 19:20 - Jun 15 by GlasgowBlue |
The title of the thread is on display every time you read a post. So JC’s past views are extremely relevant.
Why start your “desperate” bullsh1t? How about for once in your life put your hands up and say you got it wrong! I’ll leave you to ponder that on your Saturday night. I’m out. |
Hahahahahahahahahaha.
Once again you run away without answering ANY of my points that are actually on the topic.
Running away again because the questions were too difficult.
Hang on, you haven't got a mop of white hair have you? | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 19:48 - Jun 15 with 3883 views | StokieBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 18:48 - Jun 15 by BrixtonBlue |
You're attacking the man.
What about France and Germany not accepting the evidence? You surely have the same vitriol for them?
What about the Japanese captain and his "strange discrepancy"?
What about Hunt saying they're not certain?
Forget about who's calling for caution - don't you think these are all grounds for NOT steaming in all guns blazing?! |
Let's be clear on that point. Last I heard it wasn't the captain saying that. It was second hand from the owner of the company, not someone who was there but based on what the crew apparently said. They also said an Iranian naval ship was in the area.
I've not checked today so you can correct me if wrong.
SB [Post edited 15 Jun 2019 20:05]
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 20:05 - Jun 15 with 3863 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 19:48 - Jun 15 by StokieBlue |
Let's be clear on that point. Last I heard it wasn't the captain saying that. It was second hand from the owner of the company, not someone who was there but based on what the crew apparently said. They also said an Iranian naval ship was in the area.
I've not checked today so you can correct me if wrong.
SB [Post edited 15 Jun 2019 20:05]
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My apologies, I think someone on here said captain and I conflated it with the BBC article, which actually says owner. It was he that said the crew reported "flying objects".
I think it's a minor point really. Clearly there is some doubt, so more investigation is needed. | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 20:09 - Jun 15 with 3853 views | Churchman |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 18:48 - Jun 15 by BrixtonBlue |
You're attacking the man.
What about France and Germany not accepting the evidence? You surely have the same vitriol for them?
What about the Japanese captain and his "strange discrepancy"?
What about Hunt saying they're not certain?
Forget about who's calling for caution - don't you think these are all grounds for NOT steaming in all guns blazing?! |
Indeed I am. It’s an opinion of the man based on his track record. You may agree with every utterance if his, I do not. It’s what democracy is meant to be all about.
France and Germany, like America, look after their own interests. France and Germany have had significant trade interests in Iran so I can understand why they were cautious, just as those countries reliant on Russia for fuel/gas were quiet over Salisbury.
It will be interesting to see how this pans out | | | |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 20:23 - Jun 15 with 3822 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 20:09 - Jun 15 by Churchman |
Indeed I am. It’s an opinion of the man based on his track record. You may agree with every utterance if his, I do not. It’s what democracy is meant to be all about.
France and Germany, like America, look after their own interests. France and Germany have had significant trade interests in Iran so I can understand why they were cautious, just as those countries reliant on Russia for fuel/gas were quiet over Salisbury.
It will be interesting to see how this pans out |
I don't agree with every utterance of his, as I've stated many times on here.
Glad you admit you're attacking the man.
But it's a fallacious argument;
"(it's a) strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself."
Therefor, yours is a false argument.
Forget about Corbyn and ask yourself if, with what we know so far, more evidence is needed. | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 20:23 - Jun 15 with 3818 views | jeera |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 14:18 - Jun 15 by hampstead_blue |
I agree the Japanese Capt did change his mind. However, I'm looking at the hard evidence.
I'm no SBS operator or Clearance diver so can't tell you what a mine strike looks like, but I do trust our analysts.
The pictures and video are what I am discussing.
The problem is that to ask for independent verification of intelligence would cripple our int services. JC simply has to accept that our analysts know their onions from leeks.
I'm very concerned that any time you question JC's mates when they carry out murder and attacks like the oil taker is that he will ignore it which simply empowers them more. |
It probably doesn't help that you refer to Iran et al as JC's mates.
If you want to be taken seriously then it would be better if you at least pretended to have a more balanced view. You know, so as not be accused of bias.
I have no idea who is to blame and suppose at the end of the day I'd rather trust British Intelligence as a rule over anyone else's, (knowing that we are, after all, the Good Guys).
But putting all that to one side, the Iranian Special Forces need a bit of retraining in my humble opinion. Showing up in a dirty great white boat like that, with about a dozen of them in clear view.
You'd think they have seen a few old war films wouldn't you, and maybe own a few little black dinghies or something. Poor effort all round really.
Did they have the sound system blaring out as well, just to be certain of their incognito operation going undetected? [Post edited 15 Jun 2019 20:34]
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 20:31 - Jun 15 with 3806 views | Churchman |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 19:10 - Jun 15 by BrixtonBlue |
I never said it was a lie. And I agree, what is reported is just the tip of the iceberg.
Not sure what any of this has to do with my assertion that Corbyn, and the French and Germans, are right to urge caution and demand more robust evidence. |
Do you think Corbyn would accept any ‘robust evidence’ if it went against his view of the world?
He didn’t with Salisbury. He just kept parroting mother Russia’s nonsense. | | | |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 20:36 - Jun 15 with 3786 views | BrixtonBlue |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 20:31 - Jun 15 by Churchman |
Do you think Corbyn would accept any ‘robust evidence’ if it went against his view of the world?
He didn’t with Salisbury. He just kept parroting mother Russia’s nonsense. |
Your anti-Corbyn bias is showing. | |
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| Life through JC's eyes..... on 20:49 - Jun 15 with 3768 views | Churchman |
| Life through JC's eyes..... on 20:23 - Jun 15 by BrixtonBlue |
I don't agree with every utterance of his, as I've stated many times on here.
Glad you admit you're attacking the man.
But it's a fallacious argument;
"(it's a) strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself."
Therefor, yours is a false argument.
Forget about Corbyn and ask yourself if, with what we know so far, more evidence is needed. |
The thread was about Corbyn’s stance. My reply was based on that. Yes, I have no time whatsoever for Corbyn or what he stands for, as I am at present entitled to. I accept that when he is in No 10 such opposition may not be allowed further down the line, but until then I will offer a view whether you down vote it or not. It’s the purpose of this board isn’t it?
If the view of the American and Uk security services is that it’s Iran, I will go with that. If it is found later that the politicians lied, they should be held to account. Just as Blair should have been for Iraq. | | | |
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