| The world is fooked 08:53 - Jun 17 with 19084 views | Herbivore |
Being realistic about it, Boris is going to be our next PM. The Tory party see him as, somehow, being someone who can win elections against the Labour party and have decided that this is clearly more important than resolving Brexit in a way that doesn’t destroy the country and indeed more important than what is best for the country in general. Concerns about his lack of competence and integrity have been pushed aside in the interests of preserving the Conservative Party and their grip on power. Standard, but depressing nonetheless.
More broadly, though, is there anything more indicative of how badly we’re fooked as a society than Boris and Trump coming to power? Neither man is remotely capable of the job they have been tasked with, both are where they are solely on the back of white male privilege and nothing more. They are the definition of the triumph of elitism over meritocracy.
Let’s start with Trump. The man is a thick bigot, the most fragile egotist imaginable. The Trump blimp triggered him so badly precisely because it was so accurate. He pitches himself as a successful businessman who knows how to get deals done, someone who is not part of the establishment and who has been a huge success. Bigly successful. And yet, if he’d simply put the vast wealth he inherited from his father into a savings account he would be wealthier than he is now. He has failed as a businessman many times over and any mitigating success has come solely because his vast inherited wealth has enabled him to try and try again. His one selling point is based on smoke and mirrors.
He has managed to ride a wave of mainly white working-class discontent through carefully managed populist rhetoric that is as dangerous as it is vacuous. His litany of misdemeanours would make him unemployable if he came from any other background, yet pure wealth and privilege has enabled him to bankroll his way to power. If his followers really feel that white males are being marginalised by liberalism, they need only look at the fact that Trump is in power as proof that this is not remotely the case.
As for Boris, the man is simply a nasty, power-hungry incompetent. Born to wealth and privilege, from very early on his character was marked by seeking power at all costs. Even at Eton and Oxford he was more concerned with gaining power and notoriety than actually excelling as a student, and he was willing to do whatever was needed to get there. Sounds familiar? As a journalist he was sacked for falsifying a quote, a journalistic offence so egregious that it would usually spell the end of a career. Yet Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson has been given chance after chance, purely because of his name and privilege rather than his talent.
As an MP he has held one cabinet position and was an abject failure. Not only did he fail to achieve anything at all of note, numerous reports suggest that he was simply unfit for the role; frequently he was not well-briefed, not interested in detail, and seemingly uninterested when attending important meetings. That’s without even considering that he endangered the life of a UK citizen through his own lazy carelessness when talking about why she was in Iran. He still refuses to take any responsibility for that, despite it once again being such an horrendous error that it would cost most people their job, let alone somehow pave the way for them to hold an even more responsible job. All this before we even consider the overt racist remarks, the dog-whistling, the general question marks over his poor character and total lack of any principles (writing two articles backing both remain and leave, anyone?).
Sorry for the lengthy rant, but it really boils my piss that we have these snake oil salesman in positions of power. They are where they are not because of any talent they have, not because they are the best men for the job, not because they have a positive vision for their countries. They are where they are because of wealth and privilege, nothing more. Their sole focus in on maintaining their privilege and on preserving a system that rewards such privilege.
The worst of it is that they are doing so by exploiting unrest amongst the working classes, unrest caused by the kind of social and economic inequalities that they and their cronies are responsible for. And they know this, yet they point the finger at other disadvantaged groups and lay the blame at their door. It’s easy to do, it plays on a base instinct in people to blame the ‘other’ rather than someone that looks like them and speaks their language (in more ways than one). They are backed by the wealthy and powerful in the media who share their overriding agenda to preserve the dominance of wealthy elites, and this simply makes the power train an irresistible force with no immovable object available at our disposal to oppose it.
All thoroughly depressing, really. |  |
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| The world is fooked on 08:57 - Jun 17 with 6776 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
Cheer up!!
Glass half empty here by the looks of it. |  |
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| The world is fooked on 09:08 - Jun 17 with 6746 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
The meat of this is the final paragraph. The working class are on the @rse end of (profit for elites) globalism which they see as aided by the EU and others (see the amount of factory work farmed out to the former eastern bloc and undercutting of wages ,one of the causes of the yellow vest movement in France) Yet their valid concerns have been ignored by "woolly, middle class, liberal elites" and the progressive left more generally as the lunatic ramblings of ignorant, uneducated racists.
A fundamental reset is required in the care for and distribution of the 'wealth' of our global commons.....but hasn't it ever been thus! |  |
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| The world is fooked on 09:10 - Jun 17 with 6736 views | Herbivore |
| The world is fooked on 09:08 - Jun 17 by BanksterDebtSlave |
The meat of this is the final paragraph. The working class are on the @rse end of (profit for elites) globalism which they see as aided by the EU and others (see the amount of factory work farmed out to the former eastern bloc and undercutting of wages ,one of the causes of the yellow vest movement in France) Yet their valid concerns have been ignored by "woolly, middle class, liberal elites" and the progressive left more generally as the lunatic ramblings of ignorant, uneducated racists.
A fundamental reset is required in the care for and distribution of the 'wealth' of our global commons.....but hasn't it ever been thus! |
I think you, like they, misappropriate blame to the EU. They are one of the easy targets for the likes of Johnson and the right-wing media. | |
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| The world is fooked on 09:19 - Jun 17 with 6687 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The world is fooked on 09:10 - Jun 17 by Herbivore |
I think you, like they, misappropriate blame to the EU. They are one of the easy targets for the likes of Johnson and the right-wing media. |
The blame is not absolute, it is partial.....as you would expect with any institution that has evolved in the modern political and economic context. There was an extremely interesting documentary on R4 on I think Friday night about the french yellow vest movement if you fancy tracking it down. | |
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| The world is fooked on 09:27 - Jun 17 with 6671 views | StokieBlue |
I think it can (simplistically) be boiled down to a single point. Everyone seems to love a false equivalence nowadays which leads them to insist that their opinion is just as valid as someone elses (usually someone with more knowledge on the subject) when this is clearly not the case.
This mindset leads to sensible and factual arguments being ignored for ones that are clearly false. That in turn leads to echo chambers where alternative views can be dismissed because everyone has the right to their equivalent view.
Once everyone are in their echo chambers they ramp each other up to ever higher levels of what they believe and become even less likely to accept being challenged.
That leads to Trump, Boris and the general mess we have now. They are able to capitalise on this muddled thinking, boosting it to seem the mainstream view.
It's depressing as you've said. Social media is the great enabler of this behaviour so it's only likely to get worse.
SB [Post edited 17 Jun 2019 9:29]
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| The world is fooked on 09:29 - Jun 17 with 6658 views | Herbivore |
| The world is fooked on 09:19 - Jun 17 by BanksterDebtSlave |
The blame is not absolute, it is partial.....as you would expect with any institution that has evolved in the modern political and economic context. There was an extremely interesting documentary on R4 on I think Friday night about the french yellow vest movement if you fancy tracking it down. |
I think we fundamentally disagree on this. Any meaningful, indeed radical, change will need to happen either globally or within a large power block to have any chance of being sustainable. We are better off within than without. | |
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| The world is fooked on 09:36 - Jun 17 with 6621 views | GeoffSentence |
I would like to take issue with all of that.
But I can't. |  |
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| The world is fooked on 09:39 - Jun 17 with 6613 views | usm |
Cool story, bro. |  |
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| The world is fooked on 09:49 - Jun 17 with 6564 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The world is fooked on 09:29 - Jun 17 by Herbivore |
I think we fundamentally disagree on this. Any meaningful, indeed radical, change will need to happen either globally or within a large power block to have any chance of being sustainable. We are better off within than without. |
Would agree if they showed any sign of accepting the need for and making such reforms. | |
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| The world is fooked on 09:49 - Jun 17 with 6566 views | pickles110564 |
EU letting us down once again, roll on Boris and Nigel. |  | | |
| The world is fooked on 09:50 - Jun 17 with 6555 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| The world is fooked on 09:49 - Jun 17 by pickles110564 |
EU letting us down once again, roll on Boris and Nigel. |
You don't make this any easier!  | |
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| The world is fooked on 09:57 - Jun 17 with 6535 views | ShropshireBluenago09 |
Social media is to blame. The last 10 years has given more of a platform to extreme views on both right and left. Tell-tale, scaremongering, inflammatory comments, all have encouraged the rise of far right and far left. |  |
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| The world is fooked on 10:07 - Jun 17 with 6507 views | Herbivore |
| The world is fooked on 09:57 - Jun 17 by ShropshireBluenago09 |
Social media is to blame. The last 10 years has given more of a platform to extreme views on both right and left. Tell-tale, scaremongering, inflammatory comments, all have encouraged the rise of far right and far left. |
History tells us that the extremes of politics, though more so the far right, tend to flourish in difficult economic times. The rise in populism has coincided with the global crash in 2008/09 and the subsequent fall out from it. I think social media enables the spreading and repetition of extreme ideas but it's not the primary cause of those ideas becoming popular. | |
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| The world is fooked on 10:08 - Jun 17 with 6496 views | Herbivore |
| The world is fooked on 09:49 - Jun 17 by pickles110564 |
EU letting us down once again, roll on Boris and Nigel. |
Can you explain please how your response is in any way related to my OP or the thread in general? | |
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| The world is fooked on 10:09 - Jun 17 with 6486 views | Herbivore |
| The world is fooked on 09:49 - Jun 17 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Would agree if they showed any sign of accepting the need for and making such reforms. |
They have shown no less willing, indeed arguably they've shown more willing, to improve the lot of the working man than our own government has done. If there is enough pressure for radical change from member states then change will happen. | |
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| The world is fooked on 10:19 - Jun 17 with 6451 views | caught-in-limbo |
Time for this one again:
The Uk is all a bit rubbish at the moment isn't it? by caught-in-limbo 18 Jun 2017 9:48"Chaos.
Chaos will be the word of the year.
Chaos will be rammed down out throats by our politicians and media.
There'll be terrorists causing chaos on our streets.
Chaos caused by civil unrest.
Chaos over Brexit.
Chaos in our parliament.
Chaos everywhere.
And while chaos engulfs us, there's a very real possibility that we'll end up with a government of national unity to prevent a "Coalition of Chaos".
All brought to us courtesy of our strong and stable government."
source:
https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/407698/3645848/brilliant-summary-of-recent-events-i
Enjoy the Show
#aUKGovernmentTheatreProduction
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| The world is fooked on 10:24 - Jun 17 with 6430 views | Guthrum |
| The world is fooked on 10:07 - Jun 17 by Herbivore |
History tells us that the extremes of politics, though more so the far right, tend to flourish in difficult economic times. The rise in populism has coincided with the global crash in 2008/09 and the subsequent fall out from it. I think social media enables the spreading and repetition of extreme ideas but it's not the primary cause of those ideas becoming popular. |
Hard times create fertile ground for radical "solutions". Better communications allow for their more rapid dissemination and greater influence. Without a combination of the two, it remains a limited and confined issue.
I'd say its pretty much balanced on "left" and "right", tho a certain notorious example tends to skew people's view. I also don't think those labels are particularly accurate. Movements such as the Nazis and Fascists - plus Orban, Le Pen and Trump - adopt policies (or at least a veneer) of working class social improvement and anti-establishment attitudes alongside their more "right wing" nationalistic and authoritarian traits. Much as many "left wing" hardliners (e.g. Maduro, Stalin, Mao) do the reverse. |  |
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| The world is fooked on 10:34 - Jun 17 with 6402 views | Herbivore |
| The world is fooked on 10:24 - Jun 17 by Guthrum |
Hard times create fertile ground for radical "solutions". Better communications allow for their more rapid dissemination and greater influence. Without a combination of the two, it remains a limited and confined issue.
I'd say its pretty much balanced on "left" and "right", tho a certain notorious example tends to skew people's view. I also don't think those labels are particularly accurate. Movements such as the Nazis and Fascists - plus Orban, Le Pen and Trump - adopt policies (or at least a veneer) of working class social improvement and anti-establishment attitudes alongside their more "right wing" nationalistic and authoritarian traits. Much as many "left wing" hardliners (e.g. Maduro, Stalin, Mao) do the reverse. |
I'm not really seeing any rise in far left ideas to be honest, not even in my lefty bumfest echo chamber. There are very few calls for an overthrow of the capitalist system, depressingly few in my opinion.
I think the influence of rapid dissemination can be overstated. Hitler didn't need twitter to come to power. | |
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| The world is fooked on 10:37 - Jun 17 with 6401 views | Guthrum |
| The world is fooked on 10:19 - Jun 17 by caught-in-limbo |
Time for this one again:
The Uk is all a bit rubbish at the moment isn't it? by caught-in-limbo 18 Jun 2017 9:48"Chaos.
Chaos will be the word of the year.
Chaos will be rammed down out throats by our politicians and media.
There'll be terrorists causing chaos on our streets.
Chaos caused by civil unrest.
Chaos over Brexit.
Chaos in our parliament.
Chaos everywhere.
And while chaos engulfs us, there's a very real possibility that we'll end up with a government of national unity to prevent a "Coalition of Chaos".
All brought to us courtesy of our strong and stable government."
source:
https://www.twtd.co.uk/forum/407698/3645848/brilliant-summary-of-recent-events-i
Enjoy the Show
#aUKGovernmentTheatreProduction
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Chaos comes from sheer incompetence or blind self-interest as often as any deliberate plan*. And a National Government, or at least a cross-party comission, is what ought to have been thrown at the Brexit problem in the first place. Certainly after 2017, when the Conservatives had thrown away their slim majority (again through incompetence).
* It's fairly easy to create, yes, but much more difficult to manage and steer. It's an ignorant fool who deliberately courts it. History is littered with people who tried, then got crushed as it ran out of control. | |
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| The world is fooked on 10:46 - Jun 17 with 6365 views | Guthrum |
| The world is fooked on 10:34 - Jun 17 by Herbivore |
I'm not really seeing any rise in far left ideas to be honest, not even in my lefty bumfest echo chamber. There are very few calls for an overthrow of the capitalist system, depressingly few in my opinion.
I think the influence of rapid dissemination can be overstated. Hitler didn't need twitter to come to power. |
Hitler exploited the relatively new medium of radio, plus party-owned mass-circulation newspapers (Volkischer Beobachter) and even aircraft to speed up personal travel. He was way ahead of his opponents in that.
You don't see Corbyn, Macdonald and Momentum as a shift to the left? Or the (particularly transport) unions beginning to use strike action a lot more? I would even suggest the rise of the climate emergency movement to be of "the left", in that it is opposed to untrammeled business interests. Anti-capitalism is talked of in a way I haven't seen since the '80s. | |
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| The world is fooked on 10:49 - Jun 17 with 6349 views | Herbivore |
| The world is fooked on 10:46 - Jun 17 by Guthrum |
Hitler exploited the relatively new medium of radio, plus party-owned mass-circulation newspapers (Volkischer Beobachter) and even aircraft to speed up personal travel. He was way ahead of his opponents in that.
You don't see Corbyn, Macdonald and Momentum as a shift to the left? Or the (particularly transport) unions beginning to use strike action a lot more? I would even suggest the rise of the climate emergency movement to be of "the left", in that it is opposed to untrammeled business interests. Anti-capitalism is talked of in a way I haven't seen since the '80s. |
I wouldn't describe any of it as far left. Look at a Labour's actual manifesto and policy proposals and its social democracy, to the left of centre yes but for me it's a symptom of how far right the country has moved that social democracy is now seem as being of the extreme left. If we're also lumping environmentalism in as an example of far left thinking then we're really in trouble. | |
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| The world is fooked on 11:14 - Jun 17 with 6286 views | Guthrum |
| The world is fooked on 10:49 - Jun 17 by Herbivore |
I wouldn't describe any of it as far left. Look at a Labour's actual manifesto and policy proposals and its social democracy, to the left of centre yes but for me it's a symptom of how far right the country has moved that social democracy is now seem as being of the extreme left. If we're also lumping environmentalism in as an example of far left thinking then we're really in trouble. |
What does 'far left thinking' actually mean? That's why I prefer terms like "progressive" (even tho it is, itself, loaded).
Many of those described as "far right" are not by any means so, either, especially when compared with historical examples such as many of the governments of Europe in the 1930s. Things like racism are still hidden and frowned upon. Very few indulge in naked autocracy.
Left vs Right is something of a false dichotomy*, a construct related to the struggle between Soviet/Maoist Communist and Western Capitalist state systems in the second and third quarters of the twentieth century. It dosn't hold particular relevence today, when the opposing sides are environmentalism vs neo-industrialism, nationalism vs confederations/globalism, individualism vs social integration and so on.
* Even the names allude to something as far back as the layout of the French revolutionary parliament in the late 18th century. | |
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| The world is fooked on 11:19 - Jun 17 with 6269 views | Herbivore |
| The world is fooked on 11:14 - Jun 17 by Guthrum |
What does 'far left thinking' actually mean? That's why I prefer terms like "progressive" (even tho it is, itself, loaded).
Many of those described as "far right" are not by any means so, either, especially when compared with historical examples such as many of the governments of Europe in the 1930s. Things like racism are still hidden and frowned upon. Very few indulge in naked autocracy.
Left vs Right is something of a false dichotomy*, a construct related to the struggle between Soviet/Maoist Communist and Western Capitalist state systems in the second and third quarters of the twentieth century. It dosn't hold particular relevence today, when the opposing sides are environmentalism vs neo-industrialism, nationalism vs confederations/globalism, individualism vs social integration and so on.
* Even the names allude to something as far back as the layout of the French revolutionary parliament in the late 18th century. |
I would see the far left as being radical rather than progressive. I'd see the centre and left of centre as being progressive. The far left would want to see an overthrow of the capitalist system or, at the very least, making such a radical overhaul of it as to render it unrecognisable.
Would you not see things like mainstream politicians vying to run the country talking about shutting down parliament to force through policy as being somewhat autocratic? Or Trump using presidential powers to force through policies he knows won't get through the two houses? | |
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| The world is fooked on 11:38 - Jun 17 with 6220 views | WeWereZombies |
| The world is fooked on 11:14 - Jun 17 by Guthrum |
What does 'far left thinking' actually mean? That's why I prefer terms like "progressive" (even tho it is, itself, loaded).
Many of those described as "far right" are not by any means so, either, especially when compared with historical examples such as many of the governments of Europe in the 1930s. Things like racism are still hidden and frowned upon. Very few indulge in naked autocracy.
Left vs Right is something of a false dichotomy*, a construct related to the struggle between Soviet/Maoist Communist and Western Capitalist state systems in the second and third quarters of the twentieth century. It dosn't hold particular relevence today, when the opposing sides are environmentalism vs neo-industrialism, nationalism vs confederations/globalism, individualism vs social integration and so on.
* Even the names allude to something as far back as the layout of the French revolutionary parliament in the late 18th century. |
You do not think that pejorative terms for the left have an older lineage then? I am thinking of the Spanish word 'izquierdo' being taken from Basque as a way of alluding to a culture that the ruling class there wanted to subjugate and a political direction they were threatened by being elided into a simple word for the direction 'left'. So in everyday language the belief that contradiction of monarchy and church was reinforced every time you showed someone the way. See also left handers and now discarded attempts to correct this trait. |  |
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