| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? 14:08 - Jun 17 with 24111 views | SpruceMoose |
It's a yes from me. |  |
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| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 16:47 - Jun 17 with 1867 views | Keaneish |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 14:23 - Jun 17 by SpruceMoose |
See above. I would like policy guided by rationality not superstition. |
You're muddling the two. Policy doesn't need to be guided by superstition just because of a belief. There are rules already in place which supersede individual belief and a whole party to ratify any misguided policy making in the name of a higher power. Our kingdom has changed a lot since King Egbert was on the throne. |  |
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| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 16:50 - Jun 17 with 1844 views | Herbivore |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 16:41 - Jun 17 by giant_stow |
No, its a fact! A difference between chimney popping Santa and some kind of Christmasy spirity thing felt by many at once as a shared experience - an unprovable feeling. |
But as I previously mentioned a creating the world in 7 days God doesn't stand up to scrutiny but you think that belief in God is legitimate. Whilst the idea that Father Christmas goes down chimnies is preposterous, why can't a belief in Father Christmas be retained? |  |
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| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 17:28 - Jun 17 with 1827 views | WeWereZombies |
Define 'believed in God' please. |  |
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| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 17:56 - Jun 17 with 1796 views | sparks |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 16:34 - Jun 17 by chicoazul |
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No- agnosticism is about knowledge (or claims to it) whereas theism is about belief.
Someone who believes in god but does not claim to know god exists is technically and agnostic theist. |  |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
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| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:01 - Jun 17 with 1786 views | WeWereZombies |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 17:56 - Jun 17 by sparks |
No- agnosticism is about knowledge (or claims to it) whereas theism is about belief.
Someone who believes in god but does not claim to know god exists is technically and agnostic theist. |
So agnosticism is about not having knowledge then... | |
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| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:02 - Jun 17 with 1786 views | Radlett_blue |
Tony Blair didn't actually do too badly (ducks).
The Commons still keep up the pretence of daily prayers, presumably to keep happy the 5% or so of the population who regularly attend a Christian church. |  |
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| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:03 - Jun 17 with 1784 views | sparks |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:01 - Jun 17 by WeWereZombies |
So agnosticism is about not having knowledge then... |
Not claiming it- yes. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:04 - Jun 17 with 1783 views | BloomBlue |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 16:50 - Jun 17 by Herbivore |
But as I previously mentioned a creating the world in 7 days God doesn't stand up to scrutiny but you think that belief in God is legitimate. Whilst the idea that Father Christmas goes down chimnies is preposterous, why can't a belief in Father Christmas be retained? |
Belief is about what you want you believe. A lot of people believe in the big bang theory, nobody can tell them how it occured it's only written words, people believe it.
If a Doctor was about to attempt to save the life of someone you loved and made it clear he believed in God, would you say stop go away I'll wait until a Doctor arrives who doesnt believe in God. |  | | |
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| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:06 - Jun 17 with 1780 views | sparks |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:04 - Jun 17 by BloomBlue |
Belief is about what you want you believe. A lot of people believe in the big bang theory, nobody can tell them how it occured it's only written words, people believe it.
If a Doctor was about to attempt to save the life of someone you loved and made it clear he believed in God, would you say stop go away I'll wait until a Doctor arrives who doesnt believe in God. |
Absolute nonsense. You don't choose a belief.
People believe the big bang theory because it is the product of huge amounts of observation and science, and is the best fitting model we have available for the evidence. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:14 - Jun 17 with 1761 views | gordon |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 16:21 - Jun 17 by chicoazul |
"It's a default position that everyone would assume if they weren't subject to actual beliefs from a young age"
This is your belief, not a fact. See? All beliefs about things we cannot prove are equal. Unless you can prove there isnt a god?
I'm agnostic which is the only sensible position to take. |
I'm agnostic too, and an atheist. What about yourself, are you an agnostic atheist or are you an agnostic believer in a supernatural being? |  | | |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:18 - Jun 17 with 1739 views | Herbivore |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:04 - Jun 17 by BloomBlue |
Belief is about what you want you believe. A lot of people believe in the big bang theory, nobody can tell them how it occured it's only written words, people believe it.
If a Doctor was about to attempt to save the life of someone you loved and made it clear he believed in God, would you say stop go away I'll wait until a Doctor arrives who doesnt believe in God. |
Say what? | |
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| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:19 - Jun 17 with 1750 views | footers |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 14:38 - Jun 17 by footers |
They'd get my vote if they believed in Cthulhu. |
That only myself and my two upvoters would consider backing someone who believed in a mythical kraken creature goes some way to explaining the problem we have.
We either accept every possibility, none, or have to discriminate when it comes to religions. |  |
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| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:20 - Jun 17 with 1748 views | WeWereZombies |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:03 - Jun 17 by sparks |
Not claiming it- yes. |
Although you do have to collect some sense data, reasoning and project that, utilising memory and language into at least two differing scenarios to claim that knowledge.
And after all that trouble you find that you still have not got enough to come to a conclusion. You can kid yourself that you will just leave it there but subconsciously you are still working on it, aren't you?
So an agnostic is working on the same problem as someone who claims to be an atheist and someone who claims to have a religious belief but they may be slightly ahead of the other two. | |
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| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:20 - Jun 17 with 1748 views | bluefunk |
How very intolerant of you.... |  | | |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:24 - Jun 17 with 1735 views | sparks |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:20 - Jun 17 by WeWereZombies |
Although you do have to collect some sense data, reasoning and project that, utilising memory and language into at least two differing scenarios to claim that knowledge.
And after all that trouble you find that you still have not got enough to come to a conclusion. You can kid yourself that you will just leave it there but subconsciously you are still working on it, aren't you?
So an agnostic is working on the same problem as someone who claims to be an atheist and someone who claims to have a religious belief but they may be slightly ahead of the other two. |
As far as I am concerned you can be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist. Most atheists are agnostic atheists.
They dont believe, but nor do they claim knowledge and certainty on the issue. | |
| The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it.
(Sir Terry Pratchett) | | Poll: | Is Fred drunk this morning? |
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| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:26 - Jun 17 with 1731 views | hampstead_blue |
Back to the OP.
I think all religion should be banned.
It's nothing more than BS. |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:37 - Jun 17 with 1695 views | Durovigutum |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:26 - Jun 17 by hampstead_blue |
Back to the OP.
I think all religion should be banned.
It's nothing more than BS. |
How about if a believer said you had to believe or you're thrown in jail?
Has this country's Christian culture and foundation of our laws (Dawkins words,.not.mine) not put us in the position that you can make that statement and keep your liberty?
Compared to other nations where you can't? |  | | |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:38 - Jun 17 with 1693 views | WeWereZombies |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:24 - Jun 17 by sparks |
As far as I am concerned you can be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist. Most atheists are agnostic atheists.
They dont believe, but nor do they claim knowledge and certainty on the issue. |
Do not agree with the definitions in your first sentence, if you include atheist in your definition you could argue that you are a light atheist as opposed to a deep atheist but you are not agnostic, you have a steer on the subject. Likewise, the theist is a believer no matter how lacking in commitment and is not an agnostic.
For what it is worth I think that none of these positions has any validity, we are still gathering enough information and deciding how to process it before we can make a reasonable judgement. But it does make for an interesting journey and help us think about ethics and morality. | |
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| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:41 - Jun 17 with 1685 views | Durovigutum |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 17:56 - Jun 17 by sparks |
No- agnosticism is about knowledge (or claims to it) whereas theism is about belief.
Someone who believes in god but does not claim to know god exists is technically and agnostic theist. |
Agnostic
noun
1.
a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God.
This is the neutral position, surely?
Atheism
noun
disbelief in the existence of God or gods.
So surely an arrived at belief? | | | |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:49 - Jun 17 with 1674 views | eireblue |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 16:21 - Jun 17 by chicoazul |
"It's a default position that everyone would assume if they weren't subject to actual beliefs from a young age"
This is your belief, not a fact. See? All beliefs about things we cannot prove are equal. Unless you can prove there isnt a god?
I'm agnostic which is the only sensible position to take. |
“All beliefs about things we cannot prove are equal.”
That is a fallacy.
I believe the stock market will be worth nothing tomorrow.
I believe the stock market will be worth between 95% and 105% of it is current value tomorrow.
Are both of those beliefs I hold today, equal?
I think that is one example of your statement being false.
If your statement is false, anything you have logically derived from that statement is false.
Of course you may want to revise your initial statement.
And then that would mean a re-work on your statement on equivalencies of beliefs. |  | | |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:59 - Jun 17 with 1652 views | slump |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:24 - Jun 17 by sparks |
As far as I am concerned you can be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic theist. Most atheists are agnostic atheists.
They dont believe, but nor do they claim knowledge and certainty on the issue. |
This isn't specifically aimed at your post, but I've read most of it and here's where I'm at.
A lot of the contributions on this thread either for or against are a convoluted expressions that fail to address personal or collective feeling.
What can't be explained or understood has always had a human explanation or collective interpretation or belief and in the main for the greater good for society, at least at a local social level.
It's when those beliefs or social norms are muddied by indifferences driven by survival or greed that belief/religion conflict occurs. This has more to do with the weaker traits of human behaviour than the stronger ones that the collective built out of necessity for survival and the desire for a harmonious existence. |  |
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| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 19:12 - Jun 17 with 1620 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 18:14 - Jun 17 by gordon |
I'm agnostic too, and an atheist. What about yourself, are you an agnostic atheist or are you an agnostic believer in a supernatural being? |
I'm an insomniac, agnostic dyslexic - I lie awake all night wondering if there's a dog. |  |
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| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 19:13 - Jun 17 with 1620 views | Juggsy |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 14:36 - Jun 17 by Reuser_is_God |
I just want a PM who isn't an utter c0ckwomble to be honest. |
Well you're $hit out of luck mate, there isn't a non-c0ckw0mble amongst those candidates. |  | | |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 19:29 - Jun 17 with 1594 views | eireblue |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 16:11 - Jun 17 by chicoazul |
You're acting like atheism isnt a conscious decision taken by rational people. Given that religious iconography of some type or another is present throughout pretty much all human history and that religion is soaked into certainly our culture and most cultures throughout the world, it's a conscious decision and therefore a belief to not agree with it. |
https://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/magazine/04evolution.t.html
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/mysterious-chimpanzee-behaviour-could
It is perfectly possible to look at scientific data and conclude the belief in a higher power is an evolutionary trait of humans.
Therefore in deciding God does not exist, one can be considering scientific evidence. | | | |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 19:56 - Jun 17 with 1575 views | gordon |
| Would it bother you to have a PM who openly believed in God? on 16:03 - Jun 17 by chicoazul |
Of course atheism is a belief. A belief there is no God. Atheists hate this simple fact because it does of course reduce their POV to just another personally held belief, and they employ all sorts of syllogisms and jumping through semantic hoops to dissuade others and them selves of this, for e.g. "well you dont make a conscious effort to not believe in dragons do you".
I can't understand why it would bother anyone to have a PM who openly believes in God, to answer OP. |
If we were to take the example of Abeguwo, the rain goddess of New Guinea, I think it's fair to assume that we all lack belief in Abeguwo, and therefore are atheists in the context of this particular deity.
However, because (until I posted this comment) we had all never heard of Abeguwo, none of us could possibly have held the belief that Abeguwo didn't exist - we were simply unaware of the concept of Abeguwo.
Our atheism in this case could not have been informed by belief, and therefore to state that atheism is de facto a belief is incorrect. | | | |
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