| Something really needs to be done about this but what? 10:37 - Jun 19 with 10084 views | StokieBlue |
The fake news is winning and it’s going to become a serious problem over the next decade if nothing is done:
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/jun/19/survey-shows-crisis-of-confidenc
“A global survey of attitudes towards science has revealed the scale of the crisis of confidence in vaccines in Europe, showing that only 59% of people in western Europe and 50% in the east think vaccines are safe, compared with 79% worldwide.”
79% is bad enough but only 59% in Europe (less in Eastern Europe) is truly shocking. Conversely 95% of people in South Asia think vaccines are safe and effective.
It’s also interesting to see the difference between places where diseases run rife and cause misery and the rich Western nations which have benefitted from the longer term effects of vacinations and no longer see the impact of these diseases.
Out of sight, out of mind:
“In developing countries, where deadly diseases like diphtheria, measles or whooping cough are more common, I’ve seen mothers queue for hours to make sure their child is vaccinated,” said Seth Berkley, the chief executive of Gavi, the Vaccine Alliance. “It is in wealthier countries, where we no longer see the terrible impact these preventable diseases can have, that people are more reticent. This reticence is a luxury we can ill afford.”
He’s hit the nail on the head there.
SB
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| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 20:07 - Jun 19 with 3049 views | BanksterDebtSlave |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 19:40 - Jun 19 by Trequartista |
How can 59% of Western Europeans think vaccines are safe, but France has the highest level of distrust with 33% disagreeing that vaccines are safe. That means 67% of French people believe they are safe which is above the average for Western Europe? |
Because somewhere in Europe less than 59% think they are safe.....it's a maths thing. |  |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 20:51 - Jun 19 with 3030 views | Trequartista |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 20:07 - Jun 19 by BanksterDebtSlave |
Because somewhere in Europe less than 59% think they are safe.....it's a maths thing. |
But it says France has the highest level of distrust in the entire world. |  |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 21:36 - Jun 19 with 3015 views | Herbivore |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 20:51 - Jun 19 by Trequartista |
But it says France has the highest level of distrust in the entire world. |
Have you considered there might be an 'unsure' option sat between trust and distrust? |  |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 22:02 - Jun 19 with 3002 views | Trequartista |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 21:36 - Jun 19 by Herbivore |
Have you considered there might be an 'unsure' option sat between trust and distrust? |
Yes that was my first thought, but if that is true why has that statistic, or indeed any mention of that option, been omitted? If you put that only 59% of Western Europeans consider vaccines safe, you are implying 41% consider them unsafe which is almost fake news in itself. | |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 22:04 - Jun 19 with 2998 views | Herbivore |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 22:02 - Jun 19 by Trequartista |
Yes that was my first thought, but if that is true why has that statistic, or indeed any mention of that option, been omitted? If you put that only 59% of Western Europeans consider vaccines safe, you are implying 41% consider them unsafe which is almost fake news in itself. |
I think you're over analysing. | |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 22:13 - Jun 19 with 2996 views | Trequartista |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 22:04 - Jun 19 by Herbivore |
I think you're over analysing. |
I think that would be true if it were a few percent out, but 20 or 30 percent is quite a significant spin on the headline figures that make the story. | |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 22:36 - Jun 19 with 2979 views | Herbivore |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 22:13 - Jun 19 by Trequartista |
I think that would be true if it were a few percent out, but 20 or 30 percent is quite a significant spin on the headline figures that make the story. |
They aren't spinning the headline figures. | |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 08:01 - Jun 20 with 2944 views | eireblue |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 22:02 - Jun 19 by Trequartista |
Yes that was my first thought, but if that is true why has that statistic, or indeed any mention of that option, been omitted? If you put that only 59% of Western Europeans consider vaccines safe, you are implying 41% consider them unsafe which is almost fake news in itself. |
You have inferred that.
The full report is 132 pages.
Hard to fit that into a news article. |  | | |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 23:17 - Jun 21 with 2904 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 11:11 - Jun 19 by BlueBadger |
As Steve mentioned below, it's all about be able to evaluate the reliability of your source. In your example, the Sun is a definitel example of an unreliable source of cedible, unbiased information. |
"it's all about be able to evaluate the reliability of your source."
I don't see what that has to do with critical thinking, |  |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 23:53 - Jun 21 with 2883 views | The_Last_Baron |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 11:09 - Jun 19 by glasso |
The flip side of the same coin is that people have lost faith in the press so much that they instantly disbelieve anything they read there and seek other sources for their information. That in itself is not necessarily a bad thing, but it just causes people to seek out things that reinforce their own opinion rather than reading things that give a different point of view.
If you're one of the people who says 'I don't believe anything I read in The Sun', you're just as bad as someone who says 'I believe everything I read in the Sun.'
Critical thinking is key, but most of the people who seem to think they do that seem to end up just disbelieving the official line on everything, which isn't critical thinking at all.
I know people who seem to think every single terrorist attack is a false flag operation. If you question them on it, their reasoning is that there have been proven false flags in the past. That's like saying every tackle on the football field is a foul because there was a foul in the last game.
People take an opinion (i.e. 'the press lies') and then apply it to absolutely everything. |
The broadcast media in the UK and USA have been shown up for what they are by Brexit and Trump. Political activists (left wing/liberal) would be a better description for many of them (but not all).
The amount of propaganda going on is insane. The public have woken up to it and don't believe a word they say. The BBC banging on about climate change every day is lunacy. Now they've got it in for Boris after championing the freaky Rory Stewart, a man so far away from having any Conservative attributes that he was a perfect fit for the Beeb.
Shame Raab didn't make it through. Can you imagine the BBC if Farage got elected PM? |  |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 23:55 - Jun 21 with 2883 views | WeWereZombies |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 23:17 - Jun 21 by caught-in-limbo |
"it's all about be able to evaluate the reliability of your source."
I don't see what that has to do with critical thinking, |
If the source has inconsistencies within its report and you spot that then you have used critical thinking to evaluate the source, surely? |  |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 10:20 - Jun 22 with 2859 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 23:17 - Jun 21 by caught-in-limbo |
"it's all about be able to evaluate the reliability of your source."
I don't see what that has to do with critical thinking, |
No? It’s implicit in critical thinking imo. Unverifiable, unreferenced, anonymous information on the internet would be viewed with suspicion by anyone thinking objectively, for example. |  |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 23:10 - Jun 22 with 2824 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 23:55 - Jun 21 by WeWereZombies |
If the source has inconsistencies within its report and you spot that then you have used critical thinking to evaluate the source, surely? |
Of course. But it's not the source that needs evaluating, it's the information itself.
If you say " the information must be good because the source is reliable", you are not critically appraising the information but the source.
Obviously, good, reliable sources are very important, but they can go bad at any time.
Believing information because you trust the source, is not being open and sceptical enough. | |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 23:23 - Jun 22 with 2812 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 23:53 - Jun 21 by The_Last_Baron |
The broadcast media in the UK and USA have been shown up for what they are by Brexit and Trump. Political activists (left wing/liberal) would be a better description for many of them (but not all).
The amount of propaganda going on is insane. The public have woken up to it and don't believe a word they say. The BBC banging on about climate change every day is lunacy. Now they've got it in for Boris after championing the freaky Rory Stewart, a man so far away from having any Conservative attributes that he was a perfect fit for the Beeb.
Shame Raab didn't make it through. Can you imagine the BBC if Farage got elected PM? |
You mean the right-wing propaganda going on is insane? I'd agree totally with that. |  |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 23:36 - Jun 22 with 2803 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 13:36 - Jun 19 by No9 |
A report out this week that stated there is a very large number of children leaving primary school who cannot adequately read or write.
From friends of the family who are involved in education the mess is extensive
The problems in education have to be addressed with some urgency |
I think is probably very postcode and cohort-dependent. And has been happening for years - when I was at Primary School in London, the ILEA (Gawd Bless 'em) decided to teach one half of my school using the new fangled ITA, and the other half by traditional methods. I was in the ITA side, but as soon as my Mum saw what they were trying to do she said, "This is complete crap, I'm not having them teaching you this sh1t." So, she marched into the Head's office and got me moved to the other stream and asked whether the school was trying to produce a bunch of illiterates - my Mum told me afterwards that they had to do it as it was a diktat from the ILEA! | |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 23:39 - Jun 22 with 2799 views | Trequartista |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 08:01 - Jun 20 by eireblue |
You have inferred that.
The full report is 132 pages.
Hard to fit that into a news article. |
But easy to give the full facts on a single point rather than leaving the maths not adding up and having to guess why not | |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 23:40 - Jun 22 with 2800 views | Ewan_Oozami |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 13:34 - Jun 19 by BloomBlue |
If you actually looked at what I wrote I wasn't blaming kids I was saying we educate kids now that the internet is the sole source but as normal you're intolerant blinked in your views and if you can attack you do. |
We do not educate kids nowadays that the internet is the sole source (of information) - not sure where you got that from? | |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 00:00 - Jun 23 with 2790 views | SpruceMoose |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 23:40 - Jun 22 by Ewan_Oozami |
We do not educate kids nowadays that the internet is the sole source (of information) - not sure where you got that from? |
Out of his arse. Like 90% of all the 'wisdom' he dispenses on here. |  |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 00:02 - Jun 23 with 2790 views | StokieBlue |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 23:10 - Jun 22 by caught-in-limbo |
Of course. But it's not the source that needs evaluating, it's the information itself.
If you say " the information must be good because the source is reliable", you are not critically appraising the information but the source.
Obviously, good, reliable sources are very important, but they can go bad at any time.
Believing information because you trust the source, is not being open and sceptical enough. |
For once I agree with you, it's the appeal to authority fallacy.
I don't think you abide by the rules you've laid out though, appeal to authority is one of your favourite arguments.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 00:38 - Jun 23 with 2786 views | WeWereZombies |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 00:02 - Jun 23 by StokieBlue |
For once I agree with you, it's the appeal to authority fallacy.
I don't think you abide by the rules you've laid out though, appeal to authority is one of your favourite arguments.
SB |
Appealing to authority is not necessarily a fallacy. If you can discern that a media organisation has a coherent structure e.g. reporters and other content providers who submit to sub-editors. The edited copy is thus tidied up for everything from spelling and grammar to how it will fit into available space or look on a website, a final choice by an editor for balance and relevance as well as presentation considerations means that at least four pairs of eyes (if a legal view is also needed on the piece) have passed over what is being issued.
Whilst this may take some impact out of the original copy or dull the immediacy of the reporter's zeal it gives the news more gravitas and reliability than a blog or a website with an agenda. | |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 00:42 - Jun 23 with 2782 views | StokieBlue |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 00:38 - Jun 23 by WeWereZombies |
Appealing to authority is not necessarily a fallacy. If you can discern that a media organisation has a coherent structure e.g. reporters and other content providers who submit to sub-editors. The edited copy is thus tidied up for everything from spelling and grammar to how it will fit into available space or look on a website, a final choice by an editor for balance and relevance as well as presentation considerations means that at least four pairs of eyes (if a legal view is also needed on the piece) have passed over what is being issued.
Whilst this may take some impact out of the original copy or dull the immediacy of the reporter's zeal it gives the news more gravitas and reliability than a blog or a website with an agenda. |
That's not an appeal to authority fallacy though.
That's evaluating other evidence with regards to the source. The fallacy is that the source is an authority on the subject thus is the last word.
Certainly agree with the last paragraph.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 03:27 - Jun 23 with 2758 views | jeera |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 23:40 - Jun 22 by Ewan_Oozami |
We do not educate kids nowadays that the internet is the sole source (of information) - not sure where you got that from? |
Not to mention that this particular 'sole' source is anything but the sort.
It is simply the gateway to a billion sources of information.
It's like someone making an accusation that someone is relying too much on libraries for books. |  |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 20:18 - Jun 23 with 2718 views | caught-in-limbo |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 00:02 - Jun 23 by StokieBlue |
For once I agree with you, it's the appeal to authority fallacy.
I don't think you abide by the rules you've laid out though, appeal to authority is one of your favourite arguments.
SB |
"I don't think you abide by the rules you've laid out though, appeal to authority is one of your favourite arguments. "
Certainly nice that we agree on something.
I'd also say that appeal to authority is one of your favourite arguments, if not your majority argument. | |
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| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 11:51 - Jun 24 with 2668 views | glasso |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 23:53 - Jun 21 by The_Last_Baron |
The broadcast media in the UK and USA have been shown up for what they are by Brexit and Trump. Political activists (left wing/liberal) would be a better description for many of them (but not all).
The amount of propaganda going on is insane. The public have woken up to it and don't believe a word they say. The BBC banging on about climate change every day is lunacy. Now they've got it in for Boris after championing the freaky Rory Stewart, a man so far away from having any Conservative attributes that he was a perfect fit for the Beeb.
Shame Raab didn't make it through. Can you imagine the BBC if Farage got elected PM? |
The broadcast media does such a good job of staying impartial that everybody thinks it's biased against them. You can't get much more of an endorsement than having people on the right AND left accusing you of being against them.
I'd love to see where this championing of Rory Stewart happened. I suspect you probably just mean that you got upset when they said some nice things about him that you don't agree with. |  | | |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 12:02 - Jun 24 with 2664 views | Steve_M |
| Something really needs to be done about this but what? on 23:10 - Jun 22 by caught-in-limbo |
Of course. But it's not the source that needs evaluating, it's the information itself.
If you say " the information must be good because the source is reliable", you are not critically appraising the information but the source.
Obviously, good, reliable sources are very important, but they can go bad at any time.
Believing information because you trust the source, is not being open and sceptical enough. |
That's not what I mean by analysing a source, the source is the information and in part of assessing and evaluating that information is not just the content but where it comes from and how it has become available. That's very much the historians context for the use of 'source'
You're misinterpreting me, unintentionally, to mean source as an entity - an individual, state or media organisation for example - which means I do agree with your last sentence. |  |
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