| Another increase in hate crime 08:09 - Jun 27 with 3078 views | Herbivore |
This time against trans people: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48756370
Feels like the country is regressing and becoming quite a hostile place for many groups of individuals. |  |
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| Another increase in hate crime on 08:15 - Jun 27 with 2397 views | hampstead_blue |
How long have they been measuring?
Sometimes these spikes are prevelant in the early periods of measurement.
I'm seeing more love for all out here. Went to a veterans recruitment event at Vodafone recently with Mrs H. They are as liberal as I've seen. Awesome! |  |
| Assumption is to make an ass out of you and me.
Those who assume they know you, when they don't are just guessing.
Those who assume and insist they know are daft and in denial.
Those who assume, insist, and deny the truth are plain stupid.
Those who assume, insist, deny the truth and tell YOU they know you (when they don't) have an IQ in the range of 35-49.
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| Another increase in hate crime on 08:22 - Jun 27 with 2381 views | Herbivore |
| Another increase in hate crime on 08:15 - Jun 27 by hampstead_blue |
How long have they been measuring?
Sometimes these spikes are prevelant in the early periods of measurement.
I'm seeing more love for all out here. Went to a veterans recruitment event at Vodafone recently with Mrs H. They are as liberal as I've seen. Awesome! |
I think the statistics and reports of trans people are probably a better indicator of what things are like for trans people than your personal experience as a straight male. | |
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| Another increase in hate crime on 09:35 - Jun 27 with 2330 views | brazil1982 |
| Another increase in hate crime on 08:15 - Jun 27 by hampstead_blue |
How long have they been measuring?
Sometimes these spikes are prevelant in the early periods of measurement.
I'm seeing more love for all out here. Went to a veterans recruitment event at Vodafone recently with Mrs H. They are as liberal as I've seen. Awesome! |
It's also people's perception of "hate" - as anything one may regard as "hate" towards them can be reported to the police as such; does not necessarily mean a criminal act has been carried out.
I don't see how the UK has regressed; out of 70 million people I expect a small number to be morons and for this to continue against many groups unfortunately. The figures are relatively new. |  | | |
| Another increase in hate crime on 09:46 - Jun 27 with 2322 views | Herbivore |
| Another increase in hate crime on 09:35 - Jun 27 by brazil1982 |
It's also people's perception of "hate" - as anything one may regard as "hate" towards them can be reported to the police as such; does not necessarily mean a criminal act has been carried out.
I don't see how the UK has regressed; out of 70 million people I expect a small number to be morons and for this to continue against many groups unfortunately. The figures are relatively new. |
Hate crime is increasing across the board, not just against trans people. There is a rising tide of intolerance that's being fuelled by a noticeable shift towards some fairly far right views becoming mainstream and normalised. Some people may laugh when Boris Johnson calls Muslim women letterboxes but that kind of cheap, dehumanising language has real world effects. Likewise when people vote for Ann Widdecombe, who thinks gayness can be cured, what does that say about the values of people in our society? | |
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| Another increase in hate crime on 10:11 - Jun 27 with 2289 views | clive_baker |
| Another increase in hate crime on 08:15 - Jun 27 by hampstead_blue |
How long have they been measuring?
Sometimes these spikes are prevelant in the early periods of measurement.
I'm seeing more love for all out here. Went to a veterans recruitment event at Vodafone recently with Mrs H. They are as liberal as I've seen. Awesome! |
Also, just thinking out loud and by no means defending any of this hate, but measuring in absolutes doesn’t take into account an increase in the number of trans people generally (I’m speculating that that’s the trend but I would guess it might be, although perhaps not at a rate of 81% per year) [Post edited 27 Jun 2019 10:12]
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| Another increase in hate crime on 10:15 - Jun 27 with 2279 views | Steve_M |
| Another increase in hate crime on 08:22 - Jun 27 by Herbivore |
I think the statistics and reports of trans people are probably a better indicator of what things are like for trans people than your personal experience as a straight male. |
I think his first point was worthy of consideration though. Was transphobic hate-crime taken seriously in the past?
It is also necessary to note that there is a concerted effort amongst a small group of trans activists who have largely self-identified as women, mainly without surgery or even pre-surgery, to deny any concerns that women may have about these people encroaching on women-only spaces. The result is concentrated reporting of transphobia.
It's highly contentious and I doubt the paragraph above is entirely clear but should, for example, a women's refuge allow in someone who is basically male bodied? That person may be at risk of persecution in their own right or they may make leave vulnerable people more exposed. |  |
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| Another increase in hate crime on 10:38 - Jun 27 with 2251 views | LKW15 |
| Another increase in hate crime on 10:15 - Jun 27 by Steve_M |
I think his first point was worthy of consideration though. Was transphobic hate-crime taken seriously in the past?
It is also necessary to note that there is a concerted effort amongst a small group of trans activists who have largely self-identified as women, mainly without surgery or even pre-surgery, to deny any concerns that women may have about these people encroaching on women-only spaces. The result is concentrated reporting of transphobia.
It's highly contentious and I doubt the paragraph above is entirely clear but should, for example, a women's refuge allow in someone who is basically male bodied? That person may be at risk of persecution in their own right or they may make leave vulnerable people more exposed. |
This is spot on. Its such a complex and emotive issue that is going to affect so many areas of life, i just can't see a simple and kind catch-all solution that will satisfy everyone affected | | | |
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| Another increase in hate crime on 10:43 - Jun 27 with 2238 views | Herbivore |
| Another increase in hate crime on 10:15 - Jun 27 by Steve_M |
I think his first point was worthy of consideration though. Was transphobic hate-crime taken seriously in the past?
It is also necessary to note that there is a concerted effort amongst a small group of trans activists who have largely self-identified as women, mainly without surgery or even pre-surgery, to deny any concerns that women may have about these people encroaching on women-only spaces. The result is concentrated reporting of transphobia.
It's highly contentious and I doubt the paragraph above is entirely clear but should, for example, a women's refuge allow in someone who is basically male bodied? That person may be at risk of persecution in their own right or they may make leave vulnerable people more exposed. |
I think this has to be viewed in the broader context of hate crime against other minority groups also being on the increase. If it was a trans only issue then perhaps that could account for some of it, but (a) 81% is a huge increase that I'm not sure can be explained away so easily, and (b) it is part of a broader picture of an increase in intolerance leading to an increase in hate crime more generally. | |
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| Another increase in hate crime on 11:00 - Jun 27 with 2217 views | J2BLUE |
Equal rights charity Stonewall estimated that two in five trans people had experienced a hate crime or incident in the past year.
That's horrific. What is wrong with people? |  |
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| Another increase in hate crime on 11:08 - Jun 27 with 2199 views | Herbivore |
| Another increase in hate crime on 11:00 - Jun 27 by J2BLUE |
Equal rights charity Stonewall estimated that two in five trans people had experienced a hate crime or incident in the past year.
That's horrific. What is wrong with people? |
Indeed. Pretty shocking. | |
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| Another increase in hate crime on 11:11 - Jun 27 with 2193 views | Steve_M |
| Another increase in hate crime on 10:43 - Jun 27 by Herbivore |
I think this has to be viewed in the broader context of hate crime against other minority groups also being on the increase. If it was a trans only issue then perhaps that could account for some of it, but (a) 81% is a huge increase that I'm not sure can be explained away so easily, and (b) it is part of a broader picture of an increase in intolerance leading to an increase in hate crime more generally. |
Yes, I don't dispute that. Brexit and Trump, in particular, have legitimised views that people had suppressed and emboldened the most bigotted but, as per my earlier post, I don't think that is all that is happening here.
CIL's suggestion that the great bulk of the population has become more tolerant is probably correct, although not the rest of that post, but that is not a great deal of comfort to anyone who is on the receiving end of hate crime. | |
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| Another increase in hate crime on 11:15 - Jun 27 with 2184 views | Herbivore |
| Another increase in hate crime on 11:11 - Jun 27 by Steve_M |
Yes, I don't dispute that. Brexit and Trump, in particular, have legitimised views that people had suppressed and emboldened the most bigotted but, as per my earlier post, I don't think that is all that is happening here.
CIL's suggestion that the great bulk of the population has become more tolerant is probably correct, although not the rest of that post, but that is not a great deal of comfort to anyone who is on the receiving end of hate crime. |
I agree that it's still a minority who are responsible for intolerance, but as you also point out their intolerance has been emboldened by recent political events and, to an extent, legitimised by some of the rhetoric used by mainstream politicians. There is a lot of othering going on with politicians like Trump, Farage and Johnson and whilst they are usually careful to stop short of outright inciting hatred towards a group their dog whistle tactics certainly provide a fertile ground for intolerance to be reinforced. | |
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| Another increase in hate crime on 11:56 - Jun 27 with 2144 views | BlueBadger |
| Another increase in hate crime on 10:05 - Jun 27 by caught-in-limbo |
I see a trend towards increased openness and tolerance among normal people despite our media and politicians' efforts to report and provoke hate and intolerance. I say that as a mixed race person from a multi-ethnic family (living in 4 continents).
I believe this is the reason why:
I expect the "woke" and many of the politically active on this site to strongly disagree with me. [Post edited 27 Jun 2019 10:07]
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He wasn't wrong - a lot of current and very recent far-right groups like to cloak themselves in a fig leaf of being 'against bigotry' - the EDL, for instance, claimed somewhat unconvincingly to have an LGBT division, the BNP used to claim to be on the side of 'working people' whilst being violently opposed to unionisation and frequently the most noisy supporters of Remembrance Sunday are hard and far-right groups, despite the fact that they agree with an awful lot of what the people we went to war with in 1939 have to say about immigrants, non-white people, etc, etc.
That's also a slight misquote(assuming that it was him who said it in the first place) as well -
http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?f=101&t=000330&ubb=print_topic [Post edited 27 Jun 2019 12:00]
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| Another increase in hate crime on 12:05 - Jun 27 with 2128 views | crunchie1978 |
| Another increase in hate crime on 10:11 - Jun 27 by clive_baker |
Also, just thinking out loud and by no means defending any of this hate, but measuring in absolutes doesn’t take into account an increase in the number of trans people generally (I’m speculating that that’s the trend but I would guess it might be, although perhaps not at a rate of 81% per year) [Post edited 27 Jun 2019 10:12]
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Totally agree with you there...and not condoning it for a moment but with the increase in trans people then you could argue that the increase in hate crime goes up with it.
Also online is counted as a hate crime so some of that could play a factor.
With increased education and time this abuse will be a thing of the past as I do believe people are becoming more and more tolerant....that's why I tend to take these reports and statistics with a pinch of salt. | | | |
| Another increase in hate crime on 12:30 - Jun 27 with 2086 views | BlueBadger |
| Another increase in hate crime on 12:05 - Jun 27 by crunchie1978 |
Totally agree with you there...and not condoning it for a moment but with the increase in trans people then you could argue that the increase in hate crime goes up with it.
Also online is counted as a hate crime so some of that could play a factor.
With increased education and time this abuse will be a thing of the past as I do believe people are becoming more and more tolerant....that's why I tend to take these reports and statistics with a pinch of salt. |
People in general are, but the political climate has emboldened those who AREN'T.
In a truly more tolerant political age, the likes of Farage, Yaxley-Lennon and even Johnson would be figures known only to a tiny fraction of spots, rather than mainstream figures. | |
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| Another increase in hate crime on 13:41 - Jun 27 with 2025 views | crunchie1978 |
| Another increase in hate crime on 12:30 - Jun 27 by BlueBadger |
People in general are, but the political climate has emboldened those who AREN'T.
In a truly more tolerant political age, the likes of Farage, Yaxley-Lennon and even Johnson would be figures known only to a tiny fraction of spots, rather than mainstream figures. |
True.
I think the fact they exist and are brought to the fore are a direct result of the government failing to deal with the subjects they deal with.....essentially they are their Frankenstein monsters! | | | |
| Another increase in hate crime on 13:44 - Jun 27 with 2016 views | GeoffSentence |
"The Home Office said it was largely due to better reporting and recording."
That doesn't suggest the country is regressing, quite the opposite in fact. We are now much more aware of the hostility out there. |  |
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| Another increase in hate crime on 15:17 - Jun 27 with 1956 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| Another increase in hate crime on 08:15 - Jun 27 by hampstead_blue |
How long have they been measuring?
Sometimes these spikes are prevelant in the early periods of measurement.
I'm seeing more love for all out here. Went to a veterans recruitment event at Vodafone recently with Mrs H. They are as liberal as I've seen. Awesome! |
I have hunted for the article for a while but cannot find it, but there was a decent piece on this and the way that such figures are easily manipulated or misrepresented.
The example it used was something like women having their bottoms pinched in pubs in the 70's. Common place.
Over the course of a month in a pub back then you might have 50 bottoms pinched and 1 woman would come forward to report it, because it wasn't deemed a 'sexual assault' so nothing would have happened if the victim had complained.
Yet nowadays in the same pub it might happen 2 times in a month, both of which are reported by the victims in recognising it is a sexual assault that should never happen.
The facts will show that you are twice as likely to have your bottom pinched nowadays when it is actually 25 times less likely, it's just you are 50 times more likely to report it!
Terrible example I know, but always worth noting with stuff like this what it is being measured against and the other factors at play, like attitude, reporting processes and so on, because such data is usually used to show what the person releasing it wants you to assume. [Post edited 27 Jun 2019 15:20]
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| Another increase in hate crime on 16:04 - Jun 27 with 1918 views | BloomBlue |
| Another increase in hate crime on 11:15 - Jun 27 by Herbivore |
I agree that it's still a minority who are responsible for intolerance, but as you also point out their intolerance has been emboldened by recent political events and, to an extent, legitimised by some of the rhetoric used by mainstream politicians. There is a lot of othering going on with politicians like Trump, Farage and Johnson and whilst they are usually careful to stop short of outright inciting hatred towards a group their dog whistle tactics certainly provide a fertile ground for intolerance to be reinforced. |
I noticed you mentioned politicians like Trump, Farage and Johnson, but didn't mention anyone from Labour and their attacks on the minority that is the Jewish community, obviously that intolerance of a minority is acceptable. |  | | |
| Another increase in hate crime on 16:08 - Jun 27 with 1910 views | SpruceMoose |
| Another increase in hate crime on 16:04 - Jun 27 by BloomBlue |
I noticed you mentioned politicians like Trump, Farage and Johnson, but didn't mention anyone from Labour and their attacks on the minority that is the Jewish community, obviously that intolerance of a minority is acceptable. |
Whatwhatwhatwhatwhatwhataboutery |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Another increase in hate crime on 16:20 - Jun 27 with 1871 views | Herbivore |
| Another increase in hate crime on 13:44 - Jun 27 by GeoffSentence |
"The Home Office said it was largely due to better reporting and recording."
That doesn't suggest the country is regressing, quite the opposite in fact. We are now much more aware of the hostility out there. |
The police also suggested that only some of the increase is down to improved reporting and the experiences reported by trans people don't suggest that things are really improving for them.
I think the fact two people have down arrowed the OP suggests that transphobia is a live issue. | |
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| Another increase in hate crime on 16:35 - Jun 27 with 1853 views | GlasgowBlue |
| Another increase in hate crime on 16:08 - Jun 27 by SpruceMoose |
Whatwhatwhatwhatwhatwhataboutery |
Although it does seem odd that when listing mainstream politicians whose rhetoric has been used to embolden racists, Herbie forgets to add the man who leads the party which is currently being investigated by the EHRC for institutional anti Jewish racism.
Perhaps he just forgot.
Earlier today herbie posted this.....
"Some people may laugh when Boris Johnson calls Muslim women letterboxes but that kind of cheap, dehumanising language has real world effects. Likewise when people vote for Ann Widdecombe, who thinks gayness can be cured, what does that say about the values of people in our society?2
Absolutely nothing that any decent person could disagree with. But then I remember how herbie wriggled and squirmed in an attempt to defend Corbyn regarding his anti semitic comments aimed at British Jews "not understanding English irony". |  |
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| Another increase in hate crime on 16:37 - Jun 27 with 1845 views | GeoffSentence |
| Another increase in hate crime on 16:20 - Jun 27 by Herbivore |
The police also suggested that only some of the increase is down to improved reporting and the experiences reported by trans people don't suggest that things are really improving for them.
I think the fact two people have down arrowed the OP suggests that transphobia is a live issue. |
Things "not really improving" is not the same as "the country regressing" as you stated in the OP.
Of course transphobia is a live issue, there are and probably always will be hateful people who will pick on anyone different.
Your OP suggested that the figures given in that article indicated that the country was regressing. I don't think it does, that article tells us that more transphobic crimes are being reported, but that this is mainly down to better reporting and recording. The increased awareness of this as an issues shows that we are actually progressing, not regressing.
Of course though, you are right about the country being a hostile place for certain groups, lets hope this increased awareness leads to tangible improvements on that front. | |
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