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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here 08:28 - Jul 8 with 19604 viewsitfcjoe

Discuss...

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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 10:37 - Jul 8 with 3221 viewshomer_123

We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 10:16 - Jul 8 by StokieBlue

Why don't you offer some ideas on how it can be changed rather than 4 years of continuous moaning without any actual ideas on what to do.

SB
[Post edited 8 Jul 2019 10:31]


The only thing fans can do are:

1. Not go to matches, vote with their feet and pockets
2. Protest at every single game

Neither are palatable options IMHO.

So we are left where we are SB aren't we?

Ade Akinbiyi couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo...
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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 10:39 - Jul 8 with 3210 viewsStokieBlue

We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 10:37 - Jul 8 by homer_123

The only thing fans can do are:

1. Not go to matches, vote with their feet and pockets
2. Protest at every single game

Neither are palatable options IMHO.

So we are left where we are SB aren't we?


Yes we are and it's a difficult situation but repeatedly stating that someone who clearly doesn't have either the funds or the will to inject more money into the club should inject more money into the club is weird.

What would either of those things achieve anyway? Do people want ME to sell or do they want ME to invest money? What's the endgame here?

Or is the owner irrelevant as long as there is an immediate cash injection? All valid questions I think.

SB

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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 10:45 - Jul 8 with 3187 viewshomer_123

We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 10:39 - Jul 8 by StokieBlue

Yes we are and it's a difficult situation but repeatedly stating that someone who clearly doesn't have either the funds or the will to inject more money into the club should inject more money into the club is weird.

What would either of those things achieve anyway? Do people want ME to sell or do they want ME to invest money? What's the endgame here?

Or is the owner irrelevant as long as there is an immediate cash injection? All valid questions I think.

SB


I know what you are saying but I can also understand the frustration.

Oddly Evans has his plus points - as an owner he doesn't get involved in trying to manage, pick the team or sign players he 'wants'. He has invested in the past and he's not achieved what he has wanted - I, personally, don't mind running the club within our means but that does mean we somewhat hamstring ourselves.

The reality, and I guess this would be your point about people repeating themselves, is that it is exactly this approach that we have taken over the past number of years. Whilst Hurst had 'some' funds, it was clearly funded in part by a lot of players leaving, allowing budgets to be spent differently but, again, Evans has his fingers burnt.

Mick was successful on a shoestring and now Lambert is going to have the do the same.

I'm not suggesting either of those points as both don't really serve a purpose but I do understand the frustration.

ME isn't investing (over and above running costs), so we need to move on from that narrative. I think it's common knowledge that he wouldn't mind selling - the major issue is that we aren't an attractive purchase right now.

We are in limbo where I can see us slowly continuing to decline as times goes on.

Ade Akinbiyi couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo...
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1
Owning a football club will always involve.... on 10:53 - Jul 8 with 3169 viewsBloots

We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 10:16 - Jul 8 by StokieBlue

Why don't you offer some ideas on how it can be changed rather than 4 years of continuous moaning without any actual ideas on what to do.

SB
[Post edited 8 Jul 2019 10:31]


….a certain amount of risk.

And that risk is entirely financial.

In terms of an owner, you either need one that will throw a huge amount of money at it, stick their fingers up at FFP and go all out for promotion.

Like Bournemouth did.

Or you need an owner that has enough business sense to know what risks to take and when to take them. Whether that's paying decent money for players that he knows can be sold on for reinvestment to gradually improve the team, or whether it's investing heavily at a certain time to move to the next level.

Like the scum have (gumpf)

Our owner threw a limited amount of money at the team, at the wrong time and didn't invest when we had the chance to go up.

He fits neither profile.

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Owning a football club will always involve.... on 10:56 - Jul 8 with 3158 viewsStokieBlue

Owning a football club will always involve.... on 10:53 - Jul 8 by Bloots

….a certain amount of risk.

And that risk is entirely financial.

In terms of an owner, you either need one that will throw a huge amount of money at it, stick their fingers up at FFP and go all out for promotion.

Like Bournemouth did.

Or you need an owner that has enough business sense to know what risks to take and when to take them. Whether that's paying decent money for players that he knows can be sold on for reinvestment to gradually improve the team, or whether it's investing heavily at a certain time to move to the next level.

Like the scum have (gumpf)

Our owner threw a limited amount of money at the team, at the wrong time and didn't invest when we had the chance to go up.

He fits neither profile.


So given all that your preference would be for a new owner. That's absolutely fine and a valid position to take.

The issue is would you buy ITFC in it's current state? Realistically it's probably 50m+ to buy the club and then 7m+ ongoing losses which would increase if an investment was made in players and wages went up.

I think we would all love someone to come along with a bid like that, unfortunately those type of people seem to be quite thin on the ground for a club like ours.

Given this we need to work with what we have, acknowledge the mistakes ME has made (of which there are many) and hope that PL can get the team firing and up.

SB

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Exactly, we are in a position where.... on 11:01 - Jul 8 with 3138 viewsBloots

Owning a football club will always involve.... on 10:56 - Jul 8 by StokieBlue

So given all that your preference would be for a new owner. That's absolutely fine and a valid position to take.

The issue is would you buy ITFC in it's current state? Realistically it's probably 50m+ to buy the club and then 7m+ ongoing losses which would increase if an investment was made in players and wages went up.

I think we would all love someone to come along with a bid like that, unfortunately those type of people seem to be quite thin on the ground for a club like ours.

Given this we need to work with what we have, acknowledge the mistakes ME has made (of which there are many) and hope that PL can get the team firing and up.

SB


….due to the way the club has been run for the last 10 years, it's a totally unattractive proposition for any sensible investor.

Basically we need a lunatic multi multi millionaire to make Evans an offer he can't refuse and then suddenly turn into a sensible businessman that wants to move the club forward in a sensible way.

That's not going to happen.

So I'll just settle for a couple of decent defenders and a target man.

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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 11:07 - Jul 8 with 3108 viewsHerbivore

We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 09:45 - Jul 8 by MaySixth

Have been saying this for about five years.

I'll be happy if we finish mid-table this season.


You'd be happy with a midtable finish? That's barmy.

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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 11:09 - Jul 8 with 3110 viewschicoazul

We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 10:36 - Jul 8 by blueislander

Perhaps we should discuss where we would be without Marcus Evans in charge? And more to the point who people think should own the club.?


How do you know where we would be? You only know where we could be.

In the spirit of reconciliation and happiness at the end of the Banter Era (RIP) and as a result of promotion I have cleared out my ignore list. Look forwards to reading your posts!
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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 11:17 - Jul 8 with 3089 viewsFootballpete

We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 08:58 - Jul 8 by Fixed_It

'Massively lucky' - or has invested heavily in maintaining our Academy for this very reason. Maybe, just maybe, some credit is due for this aspect of the strategy - it isn't all own to luck!
[Post edited 8 Jul 2019 9:19]


Credit for what exactly? What strategy? We finished bottom last season.

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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 11:18 - Jul 8 with 3085 viewsSteve_M

We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 11:09 - Jul 8 by chicoazul

How do you know where we would be? You only know where we could be.


We might well have gone into administration again in the short-term, in fact without any investment then it was very likely that we would have. Quite how Sheepshanks would have tried to explain that away a second time is open to question.

It's hard to see how the club has benefited from the surge of spending between 2008 and 2011 though. There's more of an argument that putting in a few million a year to keep us comfortably one division below the Premier League was more worthwhile although, obviously, it's rather less worthwhile now we've blown that.

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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 11:22 - Jul 8 with 3072 viewsblueislander

We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 11:09 - Jul 8 by chicoazul

How do you know where we would be? You only know where we could be.


Obviously I don't know where we would be, but , if Evans had not bought the club, we may well have gone into liquidation. Unusually for a man with his business acumen ,he put a big bet on that we would be promoted to the Premier quickly, and didn't appear to have a plan B when that didn't happen.
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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 11:28 - Jul 8 with 3058 viewsPJH

We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 11:22 - Jul 8 by blueislander

Obviously I don't know where we would be, but , if Evans had not bought the club, we may well have gone into liquidation. Unusually for a man with his business acumen ,he put a big bet on that we would be promoted to the Premier quickly, and didn't appear to have a plan B when that didn't happen.


I think that at the point of Marcus Evans' arrival it was a reasonable assumption that we would be promoted to the Premier quickly, I certainly believed that on leaving the Shareholders EGM that had approved his purchase of the club.
At that time it was just about possible to buy promotion but I agree that when promotion was not bought there became a problem.
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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 11:39 - Jul 8 with 3046 viewsGuthrum

We won't be going bust, either.

Upward progress in English football at the momen is predicated on finding one of two things, either a) a genuinely deep-pocketed benefactor, such as Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha or Vincent Tan; or b) luck, acquiring a talented manager, an unexpectedly good player (e.g. Pukki), having a season just "click", with decisions going the right way and few injuries to crucial players (e.g. Sheff U and Norwich last season).

Marcus Evans is not a) - very few owners genuinely are. And we have fallen dreadfully afoul of b) for several seasons running.

Many clubs have run aground trying to simply spend their way into the Prem, because the owners did not really have the money required, because they could not sustain the required level for more than one season, through downright dodginess, or just simply because it hasn't quite worked (like Derby). For some of them, it has led to the brink of outright ruin (Portsmouth, Bolton).

By choosing to play along with the rules of modern English football finance, you set yourself a tremendously stiff task, requiring immense, sustained resources and with a massive degree of risk. Yes, the potential return might be high, but you may end up losing more than you had to start off with.

Evans has not participated in that high-stakes, high-risk game (perhaps because he knows he can't). The result has been a slow decline, but no dramatic crash. The club is still intact, albeit having dropped a division. There is a moderately sustainable plan in place, of using as many home-grown players as possible.

The question exists as to whether the entire English football model is sustainable. Many clubs are struggling badly, even some in the Prem. Rampant inflation has caused massive debt. If the flow of Sky TV money (reliant on a single company) ever faulters, the crash will be catastrophic.

Is sitting out of the game for a bit more healthy, long term, than getting beaten nearly to death in the current maul, which may end up falling over a cliff anyway?

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 11:55 - Jul 8 with 3011 viewsRegencyBlue

I wouldnt say that, League 2 beckons!
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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 12:03 - Jul 8 with 2999 viewsSomethingBlue

Hardly a discussion to be had. It could get a lot worse. I'm more nervous about the coming season than I am about any in memory. I think we do have a good chance of coming back up, but if we don't then I am really, really fearful for the years after.

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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 12:09 - Jul 8 with 2972 viewsITFC_Forever

We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 11:39 - Jul 8 by Guthrum

We won't be going bust, either.

Upward progress in English football at the momen is predicated on finding one of two things, either a) a genuinely deep-pocketed benefactor, such as Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha or Vincent Tan; or b) luck, acquiring a talented manager, an unexpectedly good player (e.g. Pukki), having a season just "click", with decisions going the right way and few injuries to crucial players (e.g. Sheff U and Norwich last season).

Marcus Evans is not a) - very few owners genuinely are. And we have fallen dreadfully afoul of b) for several seasons running.

Many clubs have run aground trying to simply spend their way into the Prem, because the owners did not really have the money required, because they could not sustain the required level for more than one season, through downright dodginess, or just simply because it hasn't quite worked (like Derby). For some of them, it has led to the brink of outright ruin (Portsmouth, Bolton).

By choosing to play along with the rules of modern English football finance, you set yourself a tremendously stiff task, requiring immense, sustained resources and with a massive degree of risk. Yes, the potential return might be high, but you may end up losing more than you had to start off with.

Evans has not participated in that high-stakes, high-risk game (perhaps because he knows he can't). The result has been a slow decline, but no dramatic crash. The club is still intact, albeit having dropped a division. There is a moderately sustainable plan in place, of using as many home-grown players as possible.

The question exists as to whether the entire English football model is sustainable. Many clubs are struggling badly, even some in the Prem. Rampant inflation has caused massive debt. If the flow of Sky TV money (reliant on a single company) ever faulters, the crash will be catastrophic.

Is sitting out of the game for a bit more healthy, long term, than getting beaten nearly to death in the current maul, which may end up falling over a cliff anyway?


Makes perfect sense.

While it is immensely frustrating we aren't spending money on improving the squad, we should remember we spent 108% of our income on wages to come last and get relegated - and around two-thirds / three-quarters of the Champ clubs spent an even higher percentage of their revenue on wages.

That's not sustainable in any way whatsoever, sooner or later a high-profile side WILL go bust and while it will be awful for their fans, it will serve them and football in general right - and they may not be the only ones.

Everyone is trying to chase the dream - but spending money that they can't afford in the real world.
There are many bodies who are complicit in this, from FIFA, UEFA, the Prem and the EFL... personally, the sooner a European Super League is created, the better.
Let the top six go (and their tv money) and let the rest of us compete on a more even playing field.

All that said, I'm certainly not exonerating ME from any blame for our situation.... there are clubs out there who don't have loads of money who are playing a better hand than the cards they have be dealt.

P 1118, W 498, D 285, L 335, F 1699, A 1352
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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 12:13 - Jul 8 with 2954 viewsFixed_It

We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 11:39 - Jul 8 by Guthrum

We won't be going bust, either.

Upward progress in English football at the momen is predicated on finding one of two things, either a) a genuinely deep-pocketed benefactor, such as Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha or Vincent Tan; or b) luck, acquiring a talented manager, an unexpectedly good player (e.g. Pukki), having a season just "click", with decisions going the right way and few injuries to crucial players (e.g. Sheff U and Norwich last season).

Marcus Evans is not a) - very few owners genuinely are. And we have fallen dreadfully afoul of b) for several seasons running.

Many clubs have run aground trying to simply spend their way into the Prem, because the owners did not really have the money required, because they could not sustain the required level for more than one season, through downright dodginess, or just simply because it hasn't quite worked (like Derby). For some of them, it has led to the brink of outright ruin (Portsmouth, Bolton).

By choosing to play along with the rules of modern English football finance, you set yourself a tremendously stiff task, requiring immense, sustained resources and with a massive degree of risk. Yes, the potential return might be high, but you may end up losing more than you had to start off with.

Evans has not participated in that high-stakes, high-risk game (perhaps because he knows he can't). The result has been a slow decline, but no dramatic crash. The club is still intact, albeit having dropped a division. There is a moderately sustainable plan in place, of using as many home-grown players as possible.

The question exists as to whether the entire English football model is sustainable. Many clubs are struggling badly, even some in the Prem. Rampant inflation has caused massive debt. If the flow of Sky TV money (reliant on a single company) ever faulters, the crash will be catastrophic.

Is sitting out of the game for a bit more healthy, long term, than getting beaten nearly to death in the current maul, which may end up falling over a cliff anyway?


POTD so far!

Ready! Steady! Cook!
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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 12:15 - Jul 8 with 2950 viewsFixed_It

We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 11:17 - Jul 8 by Footballpete

Credit for what exactly? What strategy? We finished bottom last season.


Credit for investing in the Academy. Imagine where we would be if he hadn't done that either...

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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 12:22 - Jul 8 with 2923 viewsfooters

It's so frustrating.

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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 12:24 - Jul 8 with 2917 viewsSteve_M

We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 11:39 - Jul 8 by Guthrum

We won't be going bust, either.

Upward progress in English football at the momen is predicated on finding one of two things, either a) a genuinely deep-pocketed benefactor, such as Vichai Srivaddhanaprabha or Vincent Tan; or b) luck, acquiring a talented manager, an unexpectedly good player (e.g. Pukki), having a season just "click", with decisions going the right way and few injuries to crucial players (e.g. Sheff U and Norwich last season).

Marcus Evans is not a) - very few owners genuinely are. And we have fallen dreadfully afoul of b) for several seasons running.

Many clubs have run aground trying to simply spend their way into the Prem, because the owners did not really have the money required, because they could not sustain the required level for more than one season, through downright dodginess, or just simply because it hasn't quite worked (like Derby). For some of them, it has led to the brink of outright ruin (Portsmouth, Bolton).

By choosing to play along with the rules of modern English football finance, you set yourself a tremendously stiff task, requiring immense, sustained resources and with a massive degree of risk. Yes, the potential return might be high, but you may end up losing more than you had to start off with.

Evans has not participated in that high-stakes, high-risk game (perhaps because he knows he can't). The result has been a slow decline, but no dramatic crash. The club is still intact, albeit having dropped a division. There is a moderately sustainable plan in place, of using as many home-grown players as possible.

The question exists as to whether the entire English football model is sustainable. Many clubs are struggling badly, even some in the Prem. Rampant inflation has caused massive debt. If the flow of Sky TV money (reliant on a single company) ever faulters, the crash will be catastrophic.

Is sitting out of the game for a bit more healthy, long term, than getting beaten nearly to death in the current maul, which may end up falling over a cliff anyway?


"We won't be going bust, either."

We won't so long as Evans keeps putting in enough money annually to balance the accounts. It's very hard to know what he gains from doing so now. Yes it's nominally added to the club's debt but no-one is going to buy all of that for him (even after reducing the Norwich Union bit as he is required to do). Maybe settling in the third division and not putting in £6m a year is enough for him, maybe he's completely bored of it, we just don't know. We're just completely dependent on an owner who seems less interested in the club by the year.

I broadly agree with rest of your post but Evans has allowed the money put into the club to be frittered away because there is no over-riding footballing strategy. Throwing tens of millions per year in is not necessarily a route to success but nor is spending a few million a year in without much of a plan for, well, anything really.

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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 12:31 - Jul 8 with 2889 viewsJ2BLUE

Apologies for Blue Badgering but I can't be bothered to type it all out again:

Investment by J2BLUE 7 Jul 2019 22:18
I think Bloots summed it up perfectly. There is a difference between running costs and investment. Evans has funded basic running costs and aside from his initial investment he has not invested any other money into trying to achieve anything. Any chance he gets to reduce his input to fund the basics he takes. Now i'm not saying he's wrong to do that but I do believe that is what is happening. Evans has had plenty of golden chances to actually invest a bit of cash. When we were fighting for automatic promotion he didn't provide funds. When Mings left he didn't use that bonus to provide extra funds. When we've received transfer fees they have mostly been used to reduce running costs. When we receive sell on fees we could never have budgeted for "it changes nothing".

Evans is not evil or bad. He's also not the messiah. He took an investment punt on our club and it went wrong. Now we are all paying for his failed investment. Our future under Evans is bleak. No amount of verbal gymnastics is going to change the fact that he will not invest but he will continue to fund the basics. If we do go up this season we won't see any further investment. We will still cash in on assets and look to reduce costs.

Evans is not a good owner, he isn't interested in funding any promotion ambitions.

Evans isn't a bad owner either. He hasn't cut and run or sold off the training ground and completely stripped the club of anything he can sell in order to make his money back. He seems to have accepted his investment was a very poor one and that he must face the consequences by funding the club. There will never be anything more than the basic funding under his leadership.



To be honest, I think ST holders can feel a bit cheated. They are clearly laying the ground work for not bringing in many more players. Evans' constant drive to cut costs is going to do more and more damage. If we get promoted what is the incentive to renew STs? We will be battling for 15th place again. I know some super fans will say the incentive is to watch your team but it doesn't seem much fun when there is a ceiling of mid table also rans. We will constantly sell off any assets so our long term future is downwards. I'm not asking for millions to be thrown at it but I think unexpected bonuses like the Mings fee and sell on fees being reinvested isn't too much to ask.

Our future is bleak. I feel quite annoyed. What was all that "you'll see what we are going to do" stuff about? Using young players? Radical.

Truly impaired.
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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 12:32 - Jul 8 with 2882 viewsmrshallisfit

We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 10:34 - Jul 8 by itfcjoe

If he isn't willing to even put in half of what we receive in fees then you're never going to get anywhere.

We finished 6th, raised £8m in fees and effectively didn't increase our budget and then finished 7th.

Mick's miraculous finishes on no budget have made a rod for his and subsequent managers backs with Evans now thinking it is possible.

His biggest failings are strategy though - funnelling all budget to a first team manager with no infrastructure of any note around him is too risky and why we aren't a modern forward thinking club. We need a proper Chief Exec with the authority to run the club.


Look at the people he has put in charge over the years. Clegg and Milne absolutely no clue. MM certainly dug him out of a huge hole many a time.
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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 12:34 - Jul 8 with 2869 viewsReuser_is_God

We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 10:34 - Jul 8 by itfcjoe

If he isn't willing to even put in half of what we receive in fees then you're never going to get anywhere.

We finished 6th, raised £8m in fees and effectively didn't increase our budget and then finished 7th.

Mick's miraculous finishes on no budget have made a rod for his and subsequent managers backs with Evans now thinking it is possible.

His biggest failings are strategy though - funnelling all budget to a first team manager with no infrastructure of any note around him is too risky and why we aren't a modern forward thinking club. We need a proper Chief Exec with the authority to run the club.


We have a General Manager of Football Operations to do that.

He's currently too busy trying to provide a cure for insomnia with his interviews though.

Evans out
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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 12:34 - Jul 8 with 2875 viewsJ2BLUE

This just made me laugh out loud:

However, Lambert made it clear following Saturday’s game at Paderborn that there is no money to spend on fees, which seems likely to rule out Dummigan even if there is something to the reported interest.

Dundalk. We may not want him but the fact we couldn't compete with Grimsby if we did is a bit tragic.

Truly impaired.
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We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 12:36 - Jul 8 with 2851 viewsKieran_Knows

We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 12:34 - Jul 8 by J2BLUE

This just made me laugh out loud:

However, Lambert made it clear following Saturday’s game at Paderborn that there is no money to spend on fees, which seems likely to rule out Dummigan even if there is something to the reported interest.

Dundalk. We may not want him but the fact we couldn't compete with Grimsby if we did is a bit tragic.


These are the days.

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