| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here 08:28 - Jul 8 with 19725 views | itfcjoe |
Discuss... |  |
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| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:22 - Jul 8 with 3564 views | J2BLUE |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:20 - Jul 8 by Moriarty |
Mick did a good job here.
There’s an interesting article by Paul Kimmage (2nd June) entitled “Mick McCarthy, people have been adding him up and getting him wrong for years”. Below is the link but you have to register to read. Kimmage is often worth a read though.
I know Stephen Hunt felt the targeting of Mick might have been a venting of frustration related to the boardroom, but the personal abuse Mick got from a segment of our support was wrong.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/sport/paul-kimmage-on-mick-mccar |
The personal abuse was disgusting and it was very odd seeing those giving the abuse suddenly become ultra sensitive every time he said something back. |  |
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| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:23 - Jul 8 with 3565 views | Mullet |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:18 - Jul 8 by J2BLUE |
My apologies if i'm reading it that way. Can you explain the second part please? |
Look at every word you've used to describe my thoughts and feelings here. All negative. All trying to put me in a box. It's abundantly clear how you were trying to steer the thread.
All your football points are hypothetical and insinuating I'm somehow set dead against any criticism of Mick. Ironic given Bloots' post hours before and the way you chose to duck that. |  |
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| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:24 - Jul 8 with 3561 views | Radlett_blue |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:00 - Jul 8 by J2BLUE |
No idea what that first line is about?
I know results went the wrong way but, forgive me if i'm wrong, you seem to look back on the MM years as some sort of glory period. It was incredibly obvious that if he had stayed we might well still be in the Championship but we'd probably have about 8000 season ticket holders now. I don't disagree that he was a good manager but he didn't help himself. He lost my support when we had an outside shot at the play offs and were all but safe. He said after the match where we played defensively that going for it just wasn't him. For me that is when his time was up. I also don't disagree that results are all that matters. If we could have two seasons of the most dire football every but two promotions then we would all take it.
'Given everything I've said at the time and since about MM, just putting me up there for potshots like that is a dick move frankly. ' - again, what? You seem to get very rattled very easily these days. I'm not having pot shots at you. |
The quality of football under Mick was mostly poor. That was acceptable while he was turning around a relegation threatened team & while he took us into the play-offs, but as we sank back towards our likely place given our relative wage budget, the combination of dull football & constant sniping at the fans became too much. We almost certainly wouldn't have been relegated with Mick in charge, but that doesn't mean letting him go was wrong - it means appointing Hurst & allowing him to rip the side apart (rather like Keane without a budget) was daft. |  |
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| Balance innit, Mullers..... on 18:28 - Jul 8 with 3554 views | Bloots |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 17:53 - Jul 8 by Mullet |
Why do I have to "let MM go" but the bloke who calls most of our fanbase thick and subsequent agreeing sentiments don't?
We didn't finish 17th when he left, to go with that line of thinking is disingenuous as the results and attendances both went the wrong way from what was promised.
The fact we started his last season so well and people showed that truly it was results and nothing else that mattered, is another thing conveniently glossed over.
Given everything I've said at the time and since about MM, just putting me up there for potshots like that is a dick move frankly. [Post edited 8 Jul 2019 17:58]
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….no need to get a strop on. |  |
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| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:29 - Jul 8 with 3539 views | J2BLUE |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:23 - Jul 8 by Mullet |
Look at every word you've used to describe my thoughts and feelings here. All negative. All trying to put me in a box. It's abundantly clear how you were trying to steer the thread.
All your football points are hypothetical and insinuating I'm somehow set dead against any criticism of Mick. Ironic given Bloots' post hours before and the way you chose to duck that. |
I really wasn't. That's just how it came across to me and i've apologised if I was wrong.
I have made similar posts to Bloots in other threads asking why he is negative and seemingly won't give Lambert a chance etc. | |
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| Balance innit, Mullers..... on 18:30 - Jul 8 with 3548 views | Mullet |
| Balance innit, Mullers..... on 18:28 - Jul 8 by Bloots |
….no need to get a strop on. |
Quite. I'm amazed I typed that pithy two line analogy correctly. I was shaking like a nun's sock drawer, such was my rage. | |
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| You do realise that a large proportion... on 19:26 - Jul 8 with 3493 views | patrickswell |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:00 - Jul 8 by J2BLUE |
No idea what that first line is about?
I know results went the wrong way but, forgive me if i'm wrong, you seem to look back on the MM years as some sort of glory period. It was incredibly obvious that if he had stayed we might well still be in the Championship but we'd probably have about 8000 season ticket holders now. I don't disagree that he was a good manager but he didn't help himself. He lost my support when we had an outside shot at the play offs and were all but safe. He said after the match where we played defensively that going for it just wasn't him. For me that is when his time was up. I also don't disagree that results are all that matters. If we could have two seasons of the most dire football every but two promotions then we would all take it.
'Given everything I've said at the time and since about MM, just putting me up there for potshots like that is a dick move frankly. ' - again, what? You seem to get very rattled very easily these days. I'm not having pot shots at you. |
Point of order, but in this decade - unquestionably the most meaningless and dispiriting in the club’s history - the Mick McCarthy era up to the moment Ryan Fraser scored that winner at Preston in August 2015 IS the glory period.
The rest has been dross mixed with long losing runs, desultory performances from players who thrived elsewhere mixed together with generous helping of bad luck, heartbreaking injuries, missed opportunities, sheer incompetence and the gradual but persistent smothering of hope.
That’s what Marcus Evans’s Ipswich Town currently represents - glory is something that happens to other people. The one time he was in any position of strength here - summer 2015 - he put his hands in his pockets and stared at the floor. It’s why there are still people who can acknowledge Mick needed to leave without blaming him too much for his last 2 and a half seasons - he had a hell of a handicap sitting above his head. |  | | |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 19:29 - Jul 8 with 3479 views | J2BLUE |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 19:26 - Jul 8 by patrickswell |
Point of order, but in this decade - unquestionably the most meaningless and dispiriting in the club’s history - the Mick McCarthy era up to the moment Ryan Fraser scored that winner at Preston in August 2015 IS the glory period.
The rest has been dross mixed with long losing runs, desultory performances from players who thrived elsewhere mixed together with generous helping of bad luck, heartbreaking injuries, missed opportunities, sheer incompetence and the gradual but persistent smothering of hope.
That’s what Marcus Evans’s Ipswich Town currently represents - glory is something that happens to other people. The one time he was in any position of strength here - summer 2015 - he put his hands in his pockets and stared at the floor. It’s why there are still people who can acknowledge Mick needed to leave without blaming him too much for his last 2 and a half seasons - he had a hell of a handicap sitting above his head. |
MM was failed by ME, no doubt. MM turned water into wine consistently and still didn't get backed. | |
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| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 19:53 - Jul 8 with 3461 views | jas0999 |
Said that for years. Shot down. Mid table League One side at best under Evans ownership in my opinion. |  | | |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 19:56 - Jul 8 with 3453 views | SpruceMoose |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 19:53 - Jul 8 by jas0999 |
Said that for years. Shot down. Mid table League One side at best under Evans ownership in my opinion. |
Unlike you to be massively negative Jas! How are you farming so many upvotes in the News Comments btw Army of bots? |  |
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 21:57 - Jul 8 with 3383 views | peterleeblue |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 12:54 - Jul 8 by Slambo |
This is an absolutely superb post - wish i could give it more upticks...
Yes, Evans has completely ballsed this up, but in modern football you're onto a hiding for nothing anyway: spend the GDP of a small country to win major trophies, or spend a slightly smaller fortune to simply make up Premier League numbers. We cast envious glances at Norwich, but what did they achieve last year..? The dubious honour of being titled East Anglia's Premier League Whipping Boy for 2020. And besides, no-one's infallible; they'll make mistakes, get a dose of misfortune and one of these days find themselves in a financial death roll like us. So yeah, for now, i'd rather be at the bottom of a ladder I can climb...
I've said it before, and i'll say it again: the Premier League as a separate, self-serving entity is the root of all evil in English football. And until it's destroyed, there will always be a cartel of obscenely wealthy clubs hogging all the glory, while the rest of scrabble around for scraps. My concern is the much prayed for bursting of the PL bubble. Football is now so deeply financialised that there are too many people with too much to lose if the gravy train derails. Just like the banks were too big to fail after the economic crash, and were subsequently bailed out and propped up, the same will be true of football. It would require a concerted popular movement to level the playing field, and make it actually worthwhile for owners to properly invest in their clubs, but we're too busy bickering amongst ourselves or attacking the wrong enemy... |
"So yeah, for now, i'd rather be at the bottom of a ladder I can climb... "
Really you would actually rather be us than Norwich!!
Whatever is the point of Football if we cant aspire to replicate their success. Bizarre comment. |  | | |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 00:01 - Jul 9 with 3336 views | BrixtonBlue |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:14 - Jul 8 by J2BLUE |
Christ. You really do post aggressively these days.
I don't actually disagree with you. I just think his negatives have been glossed over by some and that it wouldn't be much better if he was still here. He performed miracles but eventually Evans' strategy would have taken anyone down. Hurst just increased the speed.
There's no doubt that we could be stuck in league one for years. I'm not pretending this is all good and exactly what we wanted. Clearly it isn't. |
What do you mean "these days"? |  |
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| You do realise that a large proportion... on 06:52 - Jul 9 with 3267 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 18:00 - Jul 8 by J2BLUE |
No idea what that first line is about?
I know results went the wrong way but, forgive me if i'm wrong, you seem to look back on the MM years as some sort of glory period. It was incredibly obvious that if he had stayed we might well still be in the Championship but we'd probably have about 8000 season ticket holders now. I don't disagree that he was a good manager but he didn't help himself. He lost my support when we had an outside shot at the play offs and were all but safe. He said after the match where we played defensively that going for it just wasn't him. For me that is when his time was up. I also don't disagree that results are all that matters. If we could have two seasons of the most dire football every but two promotions then we would all take it.
'Given everything I've said at the time and since about MM, just putting me up there for potshots like that is a dick move frankly. ' - again, what? You seem to get very rattled very easily these days. I'm not having pot shots at you. |
In the 10 full seasons Marcus Evans has been in charge our 3 best seasons have been 6th in 2014/15 under Mick McCarthy, 7th in 2015/16 under Mick McCarthy, and 9th in 2013/14 under Mick McCarthy. Hell even the much maligned 2017/18 was our 4th best season finishing in 12th
As far as the Evans era is concerned, the MM years WERE the glory period |  |
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| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 08:30 - Jul 9 with 3226 views | Radlett_blue |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 10:45 - Jul 8 by homer_123 |
I know what you are saying but I can also understand the frustration.
Oddly Evans has his plus points - as an owner he doesn't get involved in trying to manage, pick the team or sign players he 'wants'. He has invested in the past and he's not achieved what he has wanted - I, personally, don't mind running the club within our means but that does mean we somewhat hamstring ourselves.
The reality, and I guess this would be your point about people repeating themselves, is that it is exactly this approach that we have taken over the past number of years. Whilst Hurst had 'some' funds, it was clearly funded in part by a lot of players leaving, allowing budgets to be spent differently but, again, Evans has his fingers burnt.
Mick was successful on a shoestring and now Lambert is going to have the do the same.
I'm not suggesting either of those points as both don't really serve a purpose but I do understand the frustration.
ME isn't investing (over and above running costs), so we need to move on from that narrative. I think it's common knowledge that he wouldn't mind selling - the major issue is that we aren't an attractive purchase right now.
We are in limbo where I can see us slowly continuing to decline as times goes on. |
Mick..on a shoestring...Lambert is going to have to do the same??
Mick had about the 16th highest wage bill in tier 2. Lambert will have probably the 2nd highest wage bill in tier 3. | |
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| You do realise that a large proportion... on 09:12 - Jul 9 with 3201 views | C_HealyIsAPleasure |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 00:01 - Jul 9 by BrixtonBlue |
What do you mean "these days"? |
Did you have anything to comment on the thread or did you just join in to take a pop at Mullet? | |
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| You do realise that a large proportion... on 09:23 - Jul 9 with 3196 views | chicoazul |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 06:52 - Jul 9 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
In the 10 full seasons Marcus Evans has been in charge our 3 best seasons have been 6th in 2014/15 under Mick McCarthy, 7th in 2015/16 under Mick McCarthy, and 9th in 2013/14 under Mick McCarthy. Hell even the much maligned 2017/18 was our 4th best season finishing in 12th
As far as the Evans era is concerned, the MM years WERE the glory period |
The glory period under Evans was Nov 07 to the end of that season when we just missed out on the play offs, at which point Jim went mad. |  |
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| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 10:37 - Jul 9 with 3157 views | Slambo |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 21:57 - Jul 8 by peterleeblue |
"So yeah, for now, i'd rather be at the bottom of a ladder I can climb... "
Really you would actually rather be us than Norwich!!
Whatever is the point of Football if we cant aspire to replicate their success. Bizarre comment. |
I'd like us to have a bit of time in the limelight, which a couple of seasons in the Prem would give us, not denying that. Would be nice to hear us mentioned in the national media, because the club - and the town - could really do with it. I certainly envy Norwich's set up behind the scenes, make no mistake, but as I said, it only takes a couple of bad decisions and/or a bit of bad luck and all of a sudden cracks start to appear. I bet Norwich looked at us mid/late 70s to early 80s and thought we were invincible; even to an extent under Burley...
Ultimately, you have 4 or 5 clubs at the top of the PL - 6 at a push - then the rest of English football. Norwich's success..? What is that exactly..? Getting to be cannon fodder in the PL every couple of years..? It's not even a dig. It's a national disgrace that, what, 90% of English football clubs will never again even have a chance of obtaining actual glory (although i'm kind of glad for it now because, if there was greater parity in English football, Norwich may've even notched up a trophy by now)...
What we 'aspire' to now is getting 40 points in the Prem. All we, Ipswich, Norwich, every club outside the Sky cartel are there to do is make it viable for the said cartel to further enrich themselves (and even then they're not satisfied, looking as they are to establish a European super league). Until we - English football supporters - rise up and demand reform, so that EVERY club, with sound investment, good training techniques, good scouting networks and good management can genuinely compete, then being sh1t in the PL or sh1t in League 1 is all a much of a muchness as far as i'm concerned... |  |
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| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 11:29 - Jul 9 with 3120 views | patrickswell |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 10:37 - Jul 9 by Slambo |
I'd like us to have a bit of time in the limelight, which a couple of seasons in the Prem would give us, not denying that. Would be nice to hear us mentioned in the national media, because the club - and the town - could really do with it. I certainly envy Norwich's set up behind the scenes, make no mistake, but as I said, it only takes a couple of bad decisions and/or a bit of bad luck and all of a sudden cracks start to appear. I bet Norwich looked at us mid/late 70s to early 80s and thought we were invincible; even to an extent under Burley...
Ultimately, you have 4 or 5 clubs at the top of the PL - 6 at a push - then the rest of English football. Norwich's success..? What is that exactly..? Getting to be cannon fodder in the PL every couple of years..? It's not even a dig. It's a national disgrace that, what, 90% of English football clubs will never again even have a chance of obtaining actual glory (although i'm kind of glad for it now because, if there was greater parity in English football, Norwich may've even notched up a trophy by now)...
What we 'aspire' to now is getting 40 points in the Prem. All we, Ipswich, Norwich, every club outside the Sky cartel are there to do is make it viable for the said cartel to further enrich themselves (and even then they're not satisfied, looking as they are to establish a European super league). Until we - English football supporters - rise up and demand reform, so that EVERY club, with sound investment, good training techniques, good scouting networks and good management can genuinely compete, then being sh1t in the PL or sh1t in League 1 is all a much of a muchness as far as i'm concerned... |
Some good points there, but who has had the better decade - us or Norwich? They are limbering up for their third Premier League stint in the time since Evans has owned us. When Evans was announced here , it was ahead of an East Anglian derby in which we were in the top 6 and they were bottom of the table. People keep saying that one day it will turn and maybe it will, but Evans will need to finally have some bit of luck in order to do it. All the moves towards greater community engagement and the like are good, but let's not kid ourselves - this is all he has left given how comprehensive the failures have been since he took over. | | | |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 13:26 - Jul 9 with 3082 views | Slambo |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 11:29 - Jul 9 by patrickswell |
Some good points there, but who has had the better decade - us or Norwich? They are limbering up for their third Premier League stint in the time since Evans has owned us. When Evans was announced here , it was ahead of an East Anglian derby in which we were in the top 6 and they were bottom of the table. People keep saying that one day it will turn and maybe it will, but Evans will need to finally have some bit of luck in order to do it. All the moves towards greater community engagement and the like are good, but let's not kid ourselves - this is all he has left given how comprehensive the failures have been since he took over. |
Aw mate, of course! There's no doubt in the current footballing paradigm Norwich have been successful. But let's look at it more closely: what has been their biggest success? Finishing in the top half of the Prem..?! Is that really what constitutes success now..?! I'd rather it had been us, of course, but really it's like the old two bald men fighting over a comb analogy. I want so badly for Ipswich to thrive, but the rewards are so inconsequential now. Time was a club like Ipswich could get into the top flight, cobble a side together, and take a tilt at the big prizes - and this actually happened, for us and other small/medium sized clubs (in inconvenient truth for the Premier League, hence why they try to airbrush anything pre-1992 out of history)...
So let Norwich have their day in the sun. Sad thing for them - for ALL of us - is that if they look closely enough they'll notice it's not the sun at all, but some manky old light bulb... | |
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| You do realise that a large proportion... on 13:30 - Jul 9 with 3076 views | BrixtonBlue |
| You do realise that a large proportion... on 09:12 - Jul 9 by C_HealyIsAPleasure |
Did you have anything to comment on the thread or did you just join in to take a pop at Mullet? |
Are you his mum?
I happen to think the grief J2 has got in this thread is unfair. I don't really care what you think about that. | |
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| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 18:54 - Jul 9 with 2976 views | Hipsterectomy |
His biggest mistake was not being a football guy then hiring Clegg as his number 1 voice at the club, another guy not involved in football.
Why he didn't think to get Butcher/Burley/Royle or even, when it was clear he wanted to replace him, Magilton as football advisors we will never know. |  |
| Walter Smith's Barmy Army |
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| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 19:01 - Jul 9 with 2963 views | Swansea_Blue |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 18:54 - Jul 9 by Hipsterectomy |
His biggest mistake was not being a football guy then hiring Clegg as his number 1 voice at the club, another guy not involved in football.
Why he didn't think to get Butcher/Burley/Royle or even, when it was clear he wanted to replace him, Magilton as football advisors we will never know. |
And holding on to the decisions whilst not being particularly engaged (except on the end of a phone). I’m old-fashioned; I think management should be present and involved at all times. If not you have to step back and hand over most operational decisions to a suitably experienced deputy/team. I don’t get the feeling we get that from ME, as he keeps talking about being more involved.
(I may be wrong, and other models of running something are available. Ours is clearly broken tho). |  |
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| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 19:07 - Jul 9 with 2957 views | Hipsterectomy |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 19:01 - Jul 9 by Swansea_Blue |
And holding on to the decisions whilst not being particularly engaged (except on the end of a phone). I’m old-fashioned; I think management should be present and involved at all times. If not you have to step back and hand over most operational decisions to a suitably experienced deputy/team. I don’t get the feeling we get that from ME, as he keeps talking about being more involved.
(I may be wrong, and other models of running something are available. Ours is clearly broken tho). |
I to this day wonder what made him sack Magilton. We were so close to being an excellent side in this division. Yes, Magilton didn't do great with Evan's money, but he was also a relatively unknown manager with a lack of contacts in the game.
Evans is always praised in the national media for being so patient, but he sacked his first manager in 5 months | |
| Walter Smith's Barmy Army |
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| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 19:24 - Jul 9 with 2947 views | brogansnose |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 18:54 - Jul 9 by Hipsterectomy |
His biggest mistake was not being a football guy then hiring Clegg as his number 1 voice at the club, another guy not involved in football.
Why he didn't think to get Butcher/Burley/Royle or even, when it was clear he wanted to replace him, Magilton as football advisors we will never know. |
I could not agree with this more and I see it as main reason we are where we are.
When Evans came in Norwich were dropping like a stone and had been all over the place for years. Delia gets in a good DOF who secures a good manager who in short time gets them into the EPL. That single promotion act of procurement saved them and got them into the money which has sustained them pretty much ever since. Indeed, Delia saw a DOF as so important she got in the chap who oversaw the rise of Huddersfield who has since seen them promoted again.
Evans knew chuff all about football and thought he could simply lump money at a promotion and got in a bloke who previously was an administrator for the Olympic ski team. No wonder the money got spunked. Even under PJ a DOF would have curtailed the amount of loans and would have guided and controlled the disaster Hurst. I would go as far to say that a DOF would have forseen the implications of FFP and what a sham it would ultimately be.
We are going nowhere and a lot of this is down to how the footballing landscape has changed tbf, but in the end all clubs find their level and this is ours. There are worse owners than Evans and its arguable that we might have dropped down the tiers earlier, but he has overseen our decline and is culpable for that. |  | | |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 19:24 - Jul 9 with 2947 views | Swansea_Blue |
| We are going nowhere with Marcus Evans in charge here on 19:07 - Jul 9 by Hipsterectomy |
I to this day wonder what made him sack Magilton. We were so close to being an excellent side in this division. Yes, Magilton didn't do great with Evan's money, but he was also a relatively unknown manager with a lack of contacts in the game.
Evans is always praised in the national media for being so patient, but he sacked his first manager in 5 months |
Starstruck over the legend that is Roy Keane, maybe?
It’s a good point and one not often raised. I can’t actually remember the mood at the time. Did it feel like Magic had reached the end? He went a bit nuts didn’t he, but I think that was at QPR.
In hindsight, it’s pretty cleat he was being judged against unrealistic expectations. | |
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