| Middlesborough in financial trouble 07:56 - Jul 12 with 8512 views | ElderGrizzly |
They had 237 football staff 😳
[Post edited 12 Jul 2019 7:57]
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 08:12 - Jul 12 with 4604 views | Keaneish |
We must be nearing a point where salary caps and player drafts are introduced? With nearly all clubs reporting operating losses and some risking going out of business and starting the season with huge point deficits, it has to be time for change? |  |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 08:27 - Jul 12 with 4515 views | Cheltenham_Blue |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 08:12 - Jul 12 by Keaneish |
We must be nearing a point where salary caps and player drafts are introduced? With nearly all clubs reporting operating losses and some risking going out of business and starting the season with huge point deficits, it has to be time for change? |
I've said for a long time that the answer must be salary caps. Players can make their money from performance and appearance related bonuses.
Stops players like Micah Richards (for example), being happy to sit in the reserves collecting their wages. Also means only the top performing players get the big money. |  |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 08:43 - Jul 12 with 4448 views | Keaneish |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 08:27 - Jul 12 by Cheltenham_Blue |
I've said for a long time that the answer must be salary caps. Players can make their money from performance and appearance related bonuses.
Stops players like Micah Richards (for example), being happy to sit in the reserves collecting their wages. Also means only the top performing players get the big money. |
It's become so disjointed from reality it's perverse. There also needs to be a better system than football agents who drive the cost up and line their own pockets for being glorified talentless recruitment agents. A governing body to support players and handle transfers should be installed to regulate and legislate.
Still, I'm sure that'll probably be open to corruption too!
There's a lot we could learn from the NFL with regards to this sort of thing. [Post edited 12 Jul 2019 8:44]
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 08:45 - Jul 12 with 4426 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 08:43 - Jul 12 by Keaneish |
It's become so disjointed from reality it's perverse. There also needs to be a better system than football agents who drive the cost up and line their own pockets for being glorified talentless recruitment agents. A governing body to support players and handle transfers should be installed to regulate and legislate.
Still, I'm sure that'll probably be open to corruption too!
There's a lot we could learn from the NFL with regards to this sort of thing. [Post edited 12 Jul 2019 8:44]
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And the fact the only way out for clubs like Derby and Sheff Wednesday now is to sell their ground to their owners for above market value.
Also shows the disparity between us and those splurging the cash. Their average wage between 3 and 5 times ours 😳 | | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 08:52 - Jul 12 with 4384 views | Herbivore |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 08:45 - Jul 12 by ElderGrizzly |
And the fact the only way out for clubs like Derby and Sheff Wednesday now is to sell their ground to their owners for above market value.
Also shows the disparity between us and those splurging the cash. Their average wage between 3 and 5 times ours 😳 |
We really had become minnows in the Championship in terms of spending power. |  |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 08:56 - Jul 12 with 4360 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 08:52 - Jul 12 by Herbivore |
We really had become minnows in the Championship in terms of spending power. |
Sad thing is we were minnows but still living way beyond our means given the operational losses we have.
Game is gone | | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:01 - Jul 12 with 4337 views | Durovigutum |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 08:43 - Jul 12 by Keaneish |
It's become so disjointed from reality it's perverse. There also needs to be a better system than football agents who drive the cost up and line their own pockets for being glorified talentless recruitment agents. A governing body to support players and handle transfers should be installed to regulate and legislate.
Still, I'm sure that'll probably be open to corruption too!
There's a lot we could learn from the NFL with regards to this sort of thing. [Post edited 12 Jul 2019 8:44]
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Why does an agent (eg Johnathan Barnett) get more money from football than Forest Green Rivers receive for being a football team, with all of the positive elements that come from that arrangement?
Football has become a mirror on life, a small elite creaming cash and supporters of the big boys blindly agreeing due to spin in the media - when does a Man U fan show empathy with Coventry City? But when it comes to life and their situation mirrors Coventry's they complain about the injustice. |  | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:03 - Jul 12 with 4331 views | Coco |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 08:56 - Jul 12 by ElderGrizzly |
Sad thing is we were minnows but still living way beyond our means given the operational losses we have.
Game is gone |
Indeed. The reality is we are absolutely doing the right thing not trying to keep up with the Jones’! It’s just the fact that everyone else is playing boom or bust which means we have no chance. |  |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:07 - Jul 12 with 4314 views | Herbivore |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 08:56 - Jul 12 by ElderGrizzly |
Sad thing is we were minnows but still living way beyond our means given the operational losses we have.
Game is gone |
Indeed. How can you be one of the smallest spenders in the division and still lose millions each season? The game is broken. | |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:09 - Jul 12 with 4300 views | ITFC_Forever |
I read that as 237 total staff, not football staff?
Salary caps aren't the answer - football clubs need to use their brains. |  |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:12 - Jul 12 with 4285 views | Coco |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:09 - Jul 12 by ITFC_Forever |
I read that as 237 total staff, not football staff?
Salary caps aren't the answer - football clubs need to use their brains. |
And Gibson is one of the more sane ones. | |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:13 - Jul 12 with 4279 views | Guthrum |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 08:12 - Jul 12 by Keaneish |
We must be nearing a point where salary caps and player drafts are introduced? With nearly all clubs reporting operating losses and some risking going out of business and starting the season with huge point deficits, it has to be time for change? |
Problem is, the most influential clubs, the media - and many of the fans - don't want to see that happen. Not only does it reduce the "glamour" of the transfer season, it removes the faint hope that by spending that bit extra, their team can gain the marginal advantage which might see them to success.
It promotes a degree of laziness, in which the best can simply be bought by the rich, rather than developing players by good coaching and hard work. That's really why the big clubs hoover up all the youth prospects they can. Those with smaller pockets attempting it often end up with overpriced average players (think the Roy Keane era at Ipswich) - assuming they manage to avoid going bust.
Something needs to be done, for the good of the sport. Unfortunately, that requires dynamic leadership from the top. The very people and organisations, in hock to TV money, who are responsible for getting us into this situation in the first place and among which considerable corruption has been uncovered. |  |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:17 - Jul 12 with 4252 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:09 - Jul 12 by ITFC_Forever |
I read that as 237 total staff, not football staff?
Salary caps aren't the answer - football clubs need to use their brains. |
And in this regard, ME has used his brain. Just a shame his judgement on football matters is lacking otherwise we may still be getting away with it. But you're right, clubs can do something about this - sticking to pay structures, not paying silly money for transfers and not gambling money they haven't got for starters. |  |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:24 - Jul 12 with 4199 views | Marshalls_Mullet |
...as is every other club outside the Premier League... |  |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:27 - Jul 12 with 4178 views | Guthrum |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:24 - Jul 12 by Marshalls_Mullet |
...as is every other club outside the Premier League... |
... and a number of those in it. | |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:35 - Jul 12 with 4126 views | itfcjoe |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 08:12 - Jul 12 by Keaneish |
We must be nearing a point where salary caps and player drafts are introduced? With nearly all clubs reporting operating losses and some risking going out of business and starting the season with huge point deficits, it has to be time for change? |
The owners of clubs can change this, they are the ones who can drive prices down |  |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:38 - Jul 12 with 4110 views | Guthrum |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:17 - Jul 12 by Swansea_Blue |
And in this regard, ME has used his brain. Just a shame his judgement on football matters is lacking otherwise we may still be getting away with it. But you're right, clubs can do something about this - sticking to pay structures, not paying silly money for transfers and not gambling money they haven't got for starters. |
That requires resisiting the strong temptation and considerable external pressures to "just go for it".
Plus there's always the examples of that small handful of clubs who've done it in a careful, structured way and succeeded (usually only just and with a decent slice of luck), such as the recent adventures of Huddersfield and Swansea in the Prem. One or two, like Bournemouth and Brighton, even manage to establish themselves for several seasons. Others, like Blackpool, spectacularly self-destruct. Many, like Bradford and Wigan, subside gently back from whence they came. | |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:39 - Jul 12 with 4105 views | Slambo |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 08:12 - Jul 12 by Keaneish |
We must be nearing a point where salary caps and player drafts are introduced? With nearly all clubs reporting operating losses and some risking going out of business and starting the season with huge point deficits, it has to be time for change? |
Couldn't agree more, but everything's a-ok for the Sky cartel. They're getting their fill. That's all that matters so nothing will change...
In fact, the Sky cartel would be happy if every club went to the wall; then, they could absorb the bankrupt clubs and use them as their own reserve teams; failing that, the bereft supporters could be encouraged to instead follow their nearest mega club, maybe create the Middlesborough branch of Man u supporters...
It's Capitalism, baby. Until the market is controlled and the wealth redistributed, it's going to get a lot, lot worse... |  |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:46 - Jul 12 with 4072 views | itfcjoe |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:39 - Jul 12 by Slambo |
Couldn't agree more, but everything's a-ok for the Sky cartel. They're getting their fill. That's all that matters so nothing will change...
In fact, the Sky cartel would be happy if every club went to the wall; then, they could absorb the bankrupt clubs and use them as their own reserve teams; failing that, the bereft supporters could be encouraged to instead follow their nearest mega club, maybe create the Middlesborough branch of Man u supporters...
It's Capitalism, baby. Until the market is controlled and the wealth redistributed, it's going to get a lot, lot worse... |
The big 6 think they are supermarket chains, and have to put their competitors out of business like a corner shop nextdoor to them.
But there has to be a responsibility given to the clubs who overspend and chase this, if fewer did and to the extents that they did there would be less of an arms race | |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:48 - Jul 12 with 4053 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:35 - Jul 12 by itfcjoe |
The owners of clubs can change this, they are the ones who can drive prices down |
Yet, there will be some who have no interest in doing so because the prize at the end of the rainbow is so big. It’s why you need legislation, not self-regulation. | | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:50 - Jul 12 with 4039 views | Slambo |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:09 - Jul 12 by ITFC_Forever |
I read that as 237 total staff, not football staff?
Salary caps aren't the answer - football clubs need to use their brains. |
Doesn't matter how well you run your football club though, does it. As another poster said Steve Gibson is one of the more sober, rational owners. If you want to run a competitive club who actually wins stuff from time to time - and of course winning is, lest we forget, the whole flipping point of playing any game - then you simply have no choice but to get dragged into the financial crap shoot...
The game is f*cked - has been since 1992 - and we need to start attacking the real enemy: the entrenched interests at the top of the Prem. Until we banish this myth (prevalent in all society at the moment, sadly) that clubs in dire financial straits only have themselves to blame, this will just keep on happening... | |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:51 - Jul 12 with 4033 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:46 - Jul 12 by itfcjoe |
The big 6 think they are supermarket chains, and have to put their competitors out of business like a corner shop nextdoor to them.
But there has to be a responsibility given to the clubs who overspend and chase this, if fewer did and to the extents that they did there would be less of an arms race |
And when a club like Boro are in trouble, taking multiple bank loans in recent months and given Gibson’s approach in the past as a ‘fan-owner’, it shows how clubs fortunes can change.
I look at Boro and can see similarities with Bloom at Brighton. Similar sized clubs, fans as owners and all is great until the owner starts to reign in spending. | | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:53 - Jul 12 with 4021 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:09 - Jul 12 by ITFC_Forever |
I read that as 237 total staff, not football staff?
Salary caps aren't the answer - football clubs need to use their brains. |
It is 237 staff related to the direct football operation, not part-time off-field staff for example.
I’m not sure what number we are at, but I can’t imagine it is even half that. | | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:58 - Jul 12 with 3993 views | Pinewoodblue |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 08:52 - Jul 12 by Herbivore |
We really had become minnows in the Championship in terms of spending power. |
Can you explain then how while we were being relegated Sheffield Utd, average player wàge £200 higher than Towns, gained promotion. |  |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:59 - Jul 12 with 3977 views | itfcjoe |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:51 - Jul 12 by ElderGrizzly |
And when a club like Boro are in trouble, taking multiple bank loans in recent months and given Gibson’s approach in the past as a ‘fan-owner’, it shows how clubs fortunes can change.
I look at Boro and can see similarities with Bloom at Brighton. Similar sized clubs, fans as owners and all is great until the owner starts to reign in spending. |
Brighton have had huge infrastructure investment and are from a much more wealthy part of the country - Boro's attendances never held up when they were doing well even and I can't see that at Brighton with the South East being such a bubble | |
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