| Middlesborough in financial trouble 07:56 - Jul 12 with 8523 views | ElderGrizzly |
They had 237 football staff 😳
[Post edited 12 Jul 2019 7:57]
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 15:39 - Jul 12 with 1119 views | BseaBlue |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 15:32 - Jul 12 by itfcjoe |
Without reading this in any great detail as on my phone, it misses the point.
Why are Premier League players better prospects than outside? Why when EFL clubs have invested more in their development be punished when teams like Watford, Bournemouth, Huddersfield etc are Cat 2, 3 etc?
It doesn’t help development of youngsters, it helps the bank accounts of PL clubs |
I have always wandered whether mandatory sell on clauses would help, in addition to the ridiculous compensation payments. This would potentially filter move revenue down the pyramid.
If a youth player has been with a club for 'X' amount of years, they will be due a percentage of any future profit generated by said player. Could also help with the stock piling of young players! |  | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 15:47 - Jul 12 with 1106 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 15:02 - Jul 12 by itfcjoe |
I don't think we are that far down - surely the established supporter base helps compared to these other towns?
We've shown we can sell a ground out if in the top league, whereas so many clubs have gone up and been unable to.
I'm not saying we are massively attractive, but I don't think we are unattractive |
We are a long way down and relative to a big percentage of clubs at, or around, our level we're close to the bottom.
We've not been in the top league in so long who knows what we'd get now and obviously ticket revenue etc is a nothing. We don't own the ground, have limited ready made space for corporate entertainment, we don't have a thriving economy, we don't have a univeristy attracing people from any distance, we have a council living in the 1980s etc.
I don't understand what's attractive about it? |  | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 16:07 - Jul 12 with 1075 views | Herbivore |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:58 - Jul 12 by Pinewoodblue |
Can you explain then how while we were being relegated Sheffield Utd, average player wàge £200 higher than Towns, gained promotion. |
This was for the season before where both ourselves and Sheffield United bucked the trend by finishing in midtable. They then sold their best player for big money and reinvested it wisely, we lost three of our best players plus another experienced striker and replaced them with dross. Hope that helps you to understand what happened with our respective clubs this past season. |  |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 16:15 - Jul 12 with 1068 views | itfcjoe |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 15:39 - Jul 12 by BseaBlue |
I have always wandered whether mandatory sell on clauses would help, in addition to the ridiculous compensation payments. This would potentially filter move revenue down the pyramid.
If a youth player has been with a club for 'X' amount of years, they will be due a percentage of any future profit generated by said player. Could also help with the stock piling of young players! |
There is a system which states that but the numbers are tiny.
The best thing would be for caps on squad sizes at all levels, and that would be player reguistrations, not just players able to play in competitions etc.
i.e. if the limit is 35, you can't have 40 with 5 out on loan, you have to have 35.
Do you keep the experienced one on, or the young prospect? |  |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 16:17 - Jul 12 with 1062 views | WarkTheWarkITFC |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 16:15 - Jul 12 by itfcjoe |
There is a system which states that but the numbers are tiny.
The best thing would be for caps on squad sizes at all levels, and that would be player reguistrations, not just players able to play in competitions etc.
i.e. if the limit is 35, you can't have 40 with 5 out on loan, you have to have 35.
Do you keep the experienced one on, or the young prospect? |
Just imagine the increase in quality as well.
No club needs more than 35 players. But all those sitting rotting on benches or not in squads would filter down and we'd have much better quality in the lower leagues as a result of it.
Personally I'd cap it at naming a squad in August and January of 35 players over the age of 18.
Clubs would then use those 30 players and could call upon youngsters in emergencies. | |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 16:18 - Jul 12 with 1062 views | Keaneish |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 15:32 - Jul 12 by itfcjoe |
Without reading this in any great detail as on my phone, it misses the point.
Why are Premier League players better prospects than outside? Why when EFL clubs have invested more in their development be punished when teams like Watford, Bournemouth, Huddersfield etc are Cat 2, 3 etc?
It doesn’t help development of youngsters, it helps the bank accounts of PL clubs |
Typically the best youth players are at PL clubs as they have better scouting networks, better facilities and a lot more money. Sure some EFL clubs have better category academy's but this should also be reviewed. At lower league level, a team could win the league and not go up because their ground isn't sufficient. I personally think that any EFL club going into the PL has to use that money to bring their academy up to category 1 standard before they splash big money on transfer and agent fees.
I see lots of ways to progress players through systems like this and better opportunities to distribute wealth. Gains for PL clubs would be in long term player value but the short term gains would benefit players and lower league clubs.
Granted this could apply to PL and Championship clubs given the exhorbiant wealth and size of clubs in the Championship. It's an imperfect idea I know but its better than what we have at the moment in my opinion.
Besides, i think it would be great to have a more universal focus on up and coming players. Love that the NFL have a new crop of 300 each year for fans to get interested in. |  |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 16:18 - Jul 12 with 1062 views | itfcjoe |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 15:47 - Jul 12 by PrideOfTheEast |
We are a long way down and relative to a big percentage of clubs at, or around, our level we're close to the bottom.
We've not been in the top league in so long who knows what we'd get now and obviously ticket revenue etc is a nothing. We don't own the ground, have limited ready made space for corporate entertainment, we don't have a thriving economy, we don't have a univeristy attracing people from any distance, we have a council living in the 1980s etc.
I don't understand what's attractive about it? |
Just with a cursory glance at the football league I'd put us around a third of the way down.
Whilst we've not been in top flight for a generation, when we were there we sold out and have that bigger fanbase. In the region here there isn't an attractive proposition (Southend, Colchester, Cambridge, Peterborough).
Sadly we are less attractive than the likes of Reading on the other side, but I just don't see the joy in a lot of other clubs where they have fan bases of 10-12k, big spending owners have just never been able to make these clubs grow. Are there any examples where an owner has turned a small club into a big one over a decent length of time? | |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 16:21 - Jul 12 with 1059 views | itfcjoe |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 16:17 - Jul 12 by WarkTheWarkITFC |
Just imagine the increase in quality as well.
No club needs more than 35 players. But all those sitting rotting on benches or not in squads would filter down and we'd have much better quality in the lower leagues as a result of it.
Personally I'd cap it at naming a squad in August and January of 35 players over the age of 18.
Clubs would then use those 30 players and could call upon youngsters in emergencies. |
I think over 18 is too young, needs to be over 20, or maybe even 21.
2 year scholarship to U18, then 2 year pro contract to U20 and then you are considered a senior player | |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 16:28 - Jul 12 with 1043 views | itfcjoe |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 16:18 - Jul 12 by Keaneish |
Typically the best youth players are at PL clubs as they have better scouting networks, better facilities and a lot more money. Sure some EFL clubs have better category academy's but this should also be reviewed. At lower league level, a team could win the league and not go up because their ground isn't sufficient. I personally think that any EFL club going into the PL has to use that money to bring their academy up to category 1 standard before they splash big money on transfer and agent fees.
I see lots of ways to progress players through systems like this and better opportunities to distribute wealth. Gains for PL clubs would be in long term player value but the short term gains would benefit players and lower league clubs.
Granted this could apply to PL and Championship clubs given the exhorbiant wealth and size of clubs in the Championship. It's an imperfect idea I know but its better than what we have at the moment in my opinion.
Besides, i think it would be great to have a more universal focus on up and coming players. Love that the NFL have a new crop of 300 each year for fans to get interested in. |
But Premier League status isn't linked to Youth Development quality - there is no link between them and therefore there is no merit in the idea until those things become unlinked.
A team being relegated doesn't effect their quality of youth development initially but yet they'd drop out of it and a team who may not pay any attention to theirs get promoted then all of a sudden are a PL club who should be better - things can't change in 1 summer.
The universal focus on youngsters can be acheived quite easily by forcing clubs to play players from their academies - there are rules in place with this at the moment in the EFL but targets are too low. Last season 1 player in the 18 needs to be in the matchday squad who was there before their 19th birthday.
That should be increased and reported upon more heavily - why can't there be more reporting and focus on that crop of players rather than an artifical draft? | |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 16:32 - Jul 12 with 1032 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 16:18 - Jul 12 by itfcjoe |
Just with a cursory glance at the football league I'd put us around a third of the way down.
Whilst we've not been in top flight for a generation, when we were there we sold out and have that bigger fanbase. In the region here there isn't an attractive proposition (Southend, Colchester, Cambridge, Peterborough).
Sadly we are less attractive than the likes of Reading on the other side, but I just don't see the joy in a lot of other clubs where they have fan bases of 10-12k, big spending owners have just never been able to make these clubs grow. Are there any examples where an owner has turned a small club into a big one over a decent length of time? |
No way are we in the top 30 clubs in this country from an investment perspective. From a football perspective probably but that isn't really relevant.
Not sure most prospective owners have much interest in growing attendances. Promotion yes, and perhaps that gives rise to growth, but they are simply investing for a return, and they make that on promotion.
An owner will be interested in location, often for non-football reasons. Wigan is what 20 miles from Manchester. Reading 30ish miles to London and Heathrow on the doorstep. Watford similar. | | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 16:34 - Jul 12 with 1026 views | Coastalblue |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 16:28 - Jul 12 by itfcjoe |
But Premier League status isn't linked to Youth Development quality - there is no link between them and therefore there is no merit in the idea until those things become unlinked.
A team being relegated doesn't effect their quality of youth development initially but yet they'd drop out of it and a team who may not pay any attention to theirs get promoted then all of a sudden are a PL club who should be better - things can't change in 1 summer.
The universal focus on youngsters can be acheived quite easily by forcing clubs to play players from their academies - there are rules in place with this at the moment in the EFL but targets are too low. Last season 1 player in the 18 needs to be in the matchday squad who was there before their 19th birthday.
That should be increased and reported upon more heavily - why can't there be more reporting and focus on that crop of players rather than an artifical draft? |
I think that could be a key thing, introduce it progressively, over time more players in the match day squad who have been developed, and then further on a player in the starting 11. |  |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 16:35 - Jul 12 with 1024 views | gosblue |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:01 - Jul 12 by Durovigutum |
Why does an agent (eg Johnathan Barnett) get more money from football than Forest Green Rivers receive for being a football team, with all of the positive elements that come from that arrangement?
Football has become a mirror on life, a small elite creaming cash and supporters of the big boys blindly agreeing due to spin in the media - when does a Man U fan show empathy with Coventry City? But when it comes to life and their situation mirrors Coventry's they complain about the injustice. |
I have never understood why a football club has to pay anything to a player’s agent. Surely a player’s agent should be payed by the player. As has recently been suggested in the press, surely this is open to abuse and corruption. | | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 16:37 - Jul 12 with 1020 views | allezlesbleus |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 13:02 - Jul 12 by Coastalblue |
The average weekly wage at a second division football club is £35K!
That is obscene, there's an argument that for the top, top players absurd wages are a reflection of the money they generate. In the second tier where just about every club makes a heavy loss £35K a week is just ridiculous. |
I totally agree with this. Also, it is obscene that some players earn more in a season than a championship club's annual turnover. That is absurd. |  | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 16:38 - Jul 12 with 1017 views | itfcjoe |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 16:32 - Jul 12 by PrideOfTheEast |
No way are we in the top 30 clubs in this country from an investment perspective. From a football perspective probably but that isn't really relevant.
Not sure most prospective owners have much interest in growing attendances. Promotion yes, and perhaps that gives rise to growth, but they are simply investing for a return, and they make that on promotion.
An owner will be interested in location, often for non-football reasons. Wigan is what 20 miles from Manchester. Reading 30ish miles to London and Heathrow on the doorstep. Watford similar. |
Is being 20 minutes from manchester a big deal? Appreciate the London thing but just nothing in the NW it seems. When you look at revenue streams from the NW clubs they pale into insignificance compared to those in the South.
For me it is just whether an hour is close enough to London.
I just think it underplays us a bit - think I'd struggle to name 35 clubs better than us in that respect. | |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 17:35 - Jul 12 with 987 views | Keaneish |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 16:28 - Jul 12 by itfcjoe |
But Premier League status isn't linked to Youth Development quality - there is no link between them and therefore there is no merit in the idea until those things become unlinked.
A team being relegated doesn't effect their quality of youth development initially but yet they'd drop out of it and a team who may not pay any attention to theirs get promoted then all of a sudden are a PL club who should be better - things can't change in 1 summer.
The universal focus on youngsters can be acheived quite easily by forcing clubs to play players from their academies - there are rules in place with this at the moment in the EFL but targets are too low. Last season 1 player in the 18 needs to be in the matchday squad who was there before their 19th birthday.
That should be increased and reported upon more heavily - why can't there be more reporting and focus on that crop of players rather than an artifical draft? |
I don't see a draft as artificial, I see it as a means to providing opportunity with some meaningful outcomes to both clubs and players alike. Universally playing players for a certain number of matches per season and regulating it wouldn't necessarily aid player development but it really depends on what that criteria is.
I take your point about PL youth development quality. Quality of development has so many variables it would take a lot of discussion to unpick and put something meaningful in place. It covers such a large number of topics from grass roots right the way to International level. | |
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