| Middlesborough in financial trouble 07:56 - Jul 12 with 8511 views | ElderGrizzly |
They had 237 football staff 😳
[Post edited 12 Jul 2019 7:57]
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:59 - Jul 12 with 2682 views | Guthrum |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:46 - Jul 12 by itfcjoe |
The big 6 think they are supermarket chains, and have to put their competitors out of business like a corner shop nextdoor to them.
But there has to be a responsibility given to the clubs who overspend and chase this, if fewer did and to the extents that they did there would be less of an arms race |
Killing the goose which laid the golden eggs. With no competitors, there is no league for them to play in. |  |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 10:00 - Jul 12 with 2681 views | itfcjoe |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:48 - Jul 12 by ElderGrizzly |
Yet, there will be some who have no interest in doing so because the prize at the end of the rainbow is so big. It’s why you need legislation, not self-regulation. |
Then you have to let them do so and fail |  |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 10:02 - Jul 12 with 2682 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:58 - Jul 12 by Pinewoodblue |
Can you explain then how while we were being relegated Sheffield Utd, average player wàge £200 higher than Towns, gained promotion. |
To be fair this was the season before that, but there is always 1 club who appear to buck the trend.
We were one of them in 2015/16. | | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 10:04 - Jul 12 with 2681 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:59 - Jul 12 by itfcjoe |
Brighton have had huge infrastructure investment and are from a much more wealthy part of the country - Boro's attendances never held up when they were doing well even and I can't see that at Brighton with the South East being such a bubble |
But when ticket money is such a small %, it doesn’t take too much of a gap from the PL to cause a club relying on a single benefactor to be in trouble.
Of course, Bloom also currently has £150m due for repayment in 2 years time. He’ll likely delay it, but there is that threat there | | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 10:07 - Jul 12 with 2672 views | itfcjoe |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 10:04 - Jul 12 by ElderGrizzly |
But when ticket money is such a small %, it doesn’t take too much of a gap from the PL to cause a club relying on a single benefactor to be in trouble.
Of course, Bloom also currently has £150m due for repayment in 2 years time. He’ll likely delay it, but there is that threat there |
They must have good corporate revenue there as well, with all the parts of the finance industry around there.
I just think they will be fine, they are a relatively easy sale to make if Bloom wanted out - whereas Boro have scaled the heights and still not been worth anything. | |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 10:13 - Jul 12 with 2657 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 10:07 - Jul 12 by itfcjoe |
They must have good corporate revenue there as well, with all the parts of the finance industry around there.
I just think they will be fine, they are a relatively easy sale to make if Bloom wanted out - whereas Boro have scaled the heights and still not been worth anything. |
Brighton have a really strong corporate setup. Plenty of people in and around the building who know exactly what they're doing.
Gibson is a lovely guy who has done so much for the place but Boro must be in real danger of being left behind if things carry on as they are in the game. |  | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 10:15 - Jul 12 with 2646 views | ElderGrizzly |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 10:13 - Jul 12 by PrideOfTheEast |
Brighton have a really strong corporate setup. Plenty of people in and around the building who know exactly what they're doing.
Gibson is a lovely guy who has done so much for the place but Boro must be in real danger of being left behind if things carry on as they are in the game. |
But like Boro, Brighton are reliant on that one guy not getting bored or wanting to do something else with their money.
Gibson has scaled back significantly and while Brighton are in a better position now, it is a risk of that ownership model. | | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 10:20 - Jul 12 with 2628 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 10:15 - Jul 12 by ElderGrizzly |
But like Boro, Brighton are reliant on that one guy not getting bored or wanting to do something else with their money.
Gibson has scaled back significantly and while Brighton are in a better position now, it is a risk of that ownership model. |
That could be said for almost any club though couldn't it.
Brighton are miles more attractive than most for a variety of reasons. | | | |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 10:28 - Jul 12 with 2615 views | itfcjoe |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 10:15 - Jul 12 by ElderGrizzly |
But like Boro, Brighton are reliant on that one guy not getting bored or wanting to do something else with their money.
Gibson has scaled back significantly and while Brighton are in a better position now, it is a risk of that ownership model. |
Any ownership model is like that but Brighton will still be in Brighton and Middlesbrough will still be in Middlesbrough and unless the economies of the area are affected totally (maybe like Brexit voters hope and Middlesbrough becomes a boom town.....!) then Brighton will have a huge advantage and attractiveness.
I wonder where Ipswich would fit into this.....close to London an advantage, not a great economy though - think we'd be relatively attractive (and are) when ME decides to totally give up, rather than just acting as though he has...! | |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 11:55 - Jul 12 with 2550 views | glasso |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:17 - Jul 12 by Swansea_Blue |
And in this regard, ME has used his brain. Just a shame his judgement on football matters is lacking otherwise we may still be getting away with it. But you're right, clubs can do something about this - sticking to pay structures, not paying silly money for transfers and not gambling money they haven't got for starters. |
Football is in a complete mess and the main reason for that is that everything you've just said - all very sensible ideas - are an absolute odds-on way to get relegated.
You can't compete without losing money. We lost money and STILL didn't compete.
I had this discussion on my FB page a while back and all I heard from fans of the top 6 PL clubs was basically, 'you would say that, because your team has just been relegated.' They couldn't care less about anyone else because they're alright, and when those top clubs probably account for 70% of the football fans in this country, why should the authorities care, either?
As far as they're concerned, there's always been big clubs and small clubs, there's always been clubs who spend more than others and that's just football. They won't care until a PL club goes out of business, and even then, they'll probably just say it's the club's fault and that football is fine as it is - unless it's their club, then there'll be hell to pay | | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 12:17 - Jul 12 with 2524 views | BtreeBlueBlood |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:39 - Jul 12 by Slambo |
Couldn't agree more, but everything's a-ok for the Sky cartel. They're getting their fill. That's all that matters so nothing will change...
In fact, the Sky cartel would be happy if every club went to the wall; then, they could absorb the bankrupt clubs and use them as their own reserve teams; failing that, the bereft supporters could be encouraged to instead follow their nearest mega club, maybe create the Middlesborough branch of Man u supporters...
It's Capitalism, baby. Until the market is controlled and the wealth redistributed, it's going to get a lot, lot worse... |
Everyone cancelled their sky subs would be funny! |  | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 12:22 - Jul 12 with 2520 views | BlueNomad |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:03 - Jul 12 by Coco |
Indeed. The reality is we are absolutely doing the right thing not trying to keep up with the Jones’! It’s just the fact that everyone else is playing boom or bust which means we have no chance. |
I have wondered for a long time now that perhaps ME is playing the long-game. Maybe when the balloon bursts, as it will one day, clubs like ours will be the last men standing as our debts will be smaller and will rise above some of the current "big" clubs in the Championship at least. (In doing so relegation to L1 was not in my thoughts so we need to get back up asap) |  | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 12:35 - Jul 12 with 2500 views | BseaBlue |
If it was actually implemented properly FFP would be the best way to promote sustainability in football. It needs to be consistent though and the FA need to ensure that the same rules apply accross the EFL and the premier league.
I like the idea of the salary percentage v's revenue that we are facing in League one. If thats applied correctly accross English football, it would naturally drive down the inflated wages (although further regulation would be required to stop teams gambling with the parachte payments!)
However, firm sanctions are required to make it work and at the moment, the gamble for the TV money far outweighs the punishments! |  | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 12:42 - Jul 12 with 2491 views | maccyd9 |
Football is in total free fall in this question.
Bournemouth for example, a club with a capacity of 11k are soon to give Calum Wilson a weekly wage of £100k. It's absurd.
Villa, newly promoted and on the bring of financial ruin had they not been, have spent close on £100m already.....on average average players.
Personally, I'd be happy for these clubs to just implode and deal with the consequences. It will take for one to go to the wall, but sadly I don't think it will happen.
The problem is that it's filtering down. You can barely find a player at National League South level without an agent nowadays. | | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 13:02 - Jul 12 with 2460 views | Coastalblue |
The average weekly wage at a second division football club is £35K!
That is obscene, there's an argument that for the top, top players absurd wages are a reflection of the money they generate. In the second tier where just about every club makes a heavy loss £35K a week is just ridiculous. |  |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 13:12 - Jul 12 with 2442 views | christiand |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 08:12 - Jul 12 by Keaneish |
We must be nearing a point where salary caps and player drafts are introduced? With nearly all clubs reporting operating losses and some risking going out of business and starting the season with huge point deficits, it has to be time for change? |
The League One rules where their clubs are spending between 60-75% of their turnover on wages makes perfect sense. Now clubs are getting themselves into financial difficulty because of the riches of the promised land......The EPL! The way modern football is functioning you can see quite a few clubs going to the wall with only the elite top 6 surviving (Man City, Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea etc..), it's a sorry state of affairs. It just appears to be allowed to happen by the authorities as long as the powers that be are getting their pockets lined. To me, clubs were better off 20-25 years ago at least more were making a profit, since Sky's introduction for all the good its done for the game, sadly there's a lot of bad that has come with it too! | |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 13:28 - Jul 12 with 2428 views | Slambo |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 13:12 - Jul 12 by christiand |
The League One rules where their clubs are spending between 60-75% of their turnover on wages makes perfect sense. Now clubs are getting themselves into financial difficulty because of the riches of the promised land......The EPL! The way modern football is functioning you can see quite a few clubs going to the wall with only the elite top 6 surviving (Man City, Liverpool, Spurs, Chelsea etc..), it's a sorry state of affairs. It just appears to be allowed to happen by the authorities as long as the powers that be are getting their pockets lined. To me, clubs were better off 20-25 years ago at least more were making a profit, since Sky's introduction for all the good its done for the game, sadly there's a lot of bad that has come with it too! |
Hmm...i'm struggling to think of what good it's done..! |  |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 13:50 - Jul 12 with 2399 views | ITFC_Forever |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 12:22 - Jul 12 by BlueNomad |
I have wondered for a long time now that perhaps ME is playing the long-game. Maybe when the balloon bursts, as it will one day, clubs like ours will be the last men standing as our debts will be smaller and will rise above some of the current "big" clubs in the Championship at least. (In doing so relegation to L1 was not in my thoughts so we need to get back up asap) |
I've wondered that too.... but £100m of debt doesn't give us a very solid base on which to be a last man standing. |  |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 14:48 - Jul 12 with 2348 views | BlueNomad |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 13:50 - Jul 12 by ITFC_Forever |
I've wondered that too.... but £100m of debt doesn't give us a very solid base on which to be a last man standing. |
But £100m might be peanuts in comparison to many | | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 14:52 - Jul 12 with 2335 views | PrideOfTheEast |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 10:28 - Jul 12 by itfcjoe |
Any ownership model is like that but Brighton will still be in Brighton and Middlesbrough will still be in Middlesbrough and unless the economies of the area are affected totally (maybe like Brexit voters hope and Middlesbrough becomes a boom town.....!) then Brighton will have a huge advantage and attractiveness.
I wonder where Ipswich would fit into this.....close to London an advantage, not a great economy though - think we'd be relatively attractive (and are) when ME decides to totally give up, rather than just acting as though he has...! |
Plenty of clubs closer to London and with thriving, progressive towns.
I love Ipswich but it's simply not an attractive proposotion compared to probably 50% of EFL clubs. | | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 14:57 - Jul 12 with 2327 views | christiand |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 14:52 - Jul 12 by PrideOfTheEast |
Plenty of clubs closer to London and with thriving, progressive towns.
I love Ipswich but it's simply not an attractive proposotion compared to probably 50% of EFL clubs. |
I think understandably we look at things ITFC related through 'blue' tinted spectacles, where that's not really the reality if we are being completely honest with ourselves. | |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 15:02 - Jul 12 with 2318 views | itfcjoe |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 14:52 - Jul 12 by PrideOfTheEast |
Plenty of clubs closer to London and with thriving, progressive towns.
I love Ipswich but it's simply not an attractive proposotion compared to probably 50% of EFL clubs. |
I don't think we are that far down - surely the established supporter base helps compared to these other towns?
We've shown we can sell a ground out if in the top league, whereas so many clubs have gone up and been unable to.
I'm not saying we are massively attractive, but I don't think we are unattractive | |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 15:16 - Jul 12 with 2302 views | shady |
Quite heart breaking this thread.
The slippery slope of football’s demise started in the early 1960’s.
So called entitled clubs just couldn’t handle Burnley and then Town winning the league so plans were put in place to stop this ever happening again.
Firstly the rule where gate money
(which I believe used to be split 50/50 between the two clubs) was changed
so that the home team received it all; this obviously favoured the big clubs with the larger attendances.
Secondly Jimmy Hill was instrumental in removing the salary cap;
again making it harder for us to compete.
We all know the faster demise since the premier league started.
Personally I wonder about a draft system for young players. The team at the bottom of the table(after the 3 relegated clubs are removed)
gets first pick at the new talent and the winners get the last pick. |  | | |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 15:23 - Jul 12 with 2294 views | Keaneish |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 09:13 - Jul 12 by Guthrum |
Problem is, the most influential clubs, the media - and many of the fans - don't want to see that happen. Not only does it reduce the "glamour" of the transfer season, it removes the faint hope that by spending that bit extra, their team can gain the marginal advantage which might see them to success.
It promotes a degree of laziness, in which the best can simply be bought by the rich, rather than developing players by good coaching and hard work. That's really why the big clubs hoover up all the youth prospects they can. Those with smaller pockets attempting it often end up with overpriced average players (think the Roy Keane era at Ipswich) - assuming they manage to avoid going bust.
Something needs to be done, for the good of the sport. Unfortunately, that requires dynamic leadership from the top. The very people and organisations, in hock to TV money, who are responsible for getting us into this situation in the first place and among which considerable corruption has been uncovered. |
There are so many ways to introduce a draft system to help the development of young players and support lower league clubs. In simple terms, PL sides should put eligible 18, 19 or 20 year olds who haven't made "X" number of first team appearances into a draft each season and it should be a mandatory that they have to play one or two seasons in League one or two to enhance their development.
Rather than the NFL draft system which recruits prospects from the bottom up, this would be a way of filtering down to enhance player development and lower league club prospects. Granted it doesn't help lower league clubs financially but it does address some issues.
The axis could be flipped and players under a certain age can't be recruited by top tier clubs and have to go through the professional pyramid system up to a certain age where they can then be drafted and signed enabling smaller clubs to capitalise better from youth development financially.
Even if these ideas are riddled with holes, there's so much room for discussion to improve the system and set-up of youth development, player recruitment and financial distribution to improve the game infrastructure. |  |
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| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 15:32 - Jul 12 with 2281 views | itfcjoe |
| Middlesborough in financial trouble on 15:23 - Jul 12 by Keaneish |
There are so many ways to introduce a draft system to help the development of young players and support lower league clubs. In simple terms, PL sides should put eligible 18, 19 or 20 year olds who haven't made "X" number of first team appearances into a draft each season and it should be a mandatory that they have to play one or two seasons in League one or two to enhance their development.
Rather than the NFL draft system which recruits prospects from the bottom up, this would be a way of filtering down to enhance player development and lower league club prospects. Granted it doesn't help lower league clubs financially but it does address some issues.
The axis could be flipped and players under a certain age can't be recruited by top tier clubs and have to go through the professional pyramid system up to a certain age where they can then be drafted and signed enabling smaller clubs to capitalise better from youth development financially.
Even if these ideas are riddled with holes, there's so much room for discussion to improve the system and set-up of youth development, player recruitment and financial distribution to improve the game infrastructure. |
Without reading this in any great detail as on my phone, it misses the point.
Why are Premier League players better prospects than outside? Why when EFL clubs have invested more in their development be punished when teams like Watford, Bournemouth, Huddersfield etc are Cat 2, 3 etc?
It doesn’t help development of youngsters, it helps the bank accounts of PL clubs | |
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