| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long 20:18 - Jul 24 with 7735 views | gordon |
Will lose a no confidence vote in September, replaced with a centrist cross-party government of national unity led by Starmer etc. who will facilitate a second referendum. Can't really see any other outcome now, given Boris and the EU aren't going back down from their respective positions, and there have got to be enough tories would happily bring that lot down to stop no deal. If Corbyn was a credible leader they would think twice about it, but the threat of a Corbyn government is too small to stop them. |  | | |  |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 11:47 - Jul 26 with 1441 views | itfcjoe |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 08:06 - Jul 26 by Herbivore |
If they stand on a no deal platform it'll break the Tory party as it currently is. A significant proportion of the party wouldn't be willing to stand for election for a party campaigning for a no deal Brexit. That doesn't mean he won't do it though. |
Look at the Cabinet and the advisers - they are a Vote Leave party, not a Tory party at the moment.
They will probably fancy their chances as Labour are a sorry mess and the people that orchestrated the referendum campaign were light years ahead tactic and strategy wise.
Would you bet against a Tory No Deal party getting a majority to implement it? I certainly wouldn't at the moment - the country has lost it's mind |  |
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| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 11:56 - Jul 26 with 1424 views | GlasgowBlue |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 11:47 - Jul 26 by itfcjoe |
Look at the Cabinet and the advisers - they are a Vote Leave party, not a Tory party at the moment.
They will probably fancy their chances as Labour are a sorry mess and the people that orchestrated the referendum campaign were light years ahead tactic and strategy wise.
Would you bet against a Tory No Deal party getting a majority to implement it? I certainly wouldn't at the moment - the country has lost it's mind |
You have a point re the advisors but as I pointed out to you yesterday, of the 33 members of cabinet 18 voted to remain. |  |
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| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 11:57 - Jul 26 with 1421 views | Herbivore |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 11:47 - Jul 26 by itfcjoe |
Look at the Cabinet and the advisers - they are a Vote Leave party, not a Tory party at the moment.
They will probably fancy their chances as Labour are a sorry mess and the people that orchestrated the referendum campaign were light years ahead tactic and strategy wise.
Would you bet against a Tory No Deal party getting a majority to implement it? I certainly wouldn't at the moment - the country has lost it's mind |
It's possible but they'd have to select a huge raft of new candidates to stand in the election. The likes of Clarke and Stewart for example won't run for a Tory party that has a no deal Brexit in its manifesto. Many others will be the same. A lot depends on where they detect to (if they defect at all) and the Tories can't take for granted that all leave areas are in favour of a no deal Brexit, they will lose supporters to the Lib Dems in some areas and unless they do a deal with the Brexit Party they risk a split vote. It's a risky strategy and one that essentially leads to the Tory party ceasing to exist. |  |
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| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 12:03 - Jul 26 with 1412 views | Beckets |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 11:56 - Jul 26 by GlasgowBlue |
You have a point re the advisors but as I pointed out to you yesterday, of the 33 members of cabinet 18 voted to remain. |
Factually correct but I would suggest the people in positions of most influence are Leavers? Javid of course has changed his tune in this respect. |  | | |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 13:30 - Jul 26 with 1375 views | itfcjoe |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 11:57 - Jul 26 by Herbivore |
It's possible but they'd have to select a huge raft of new candidates to stand in the election. The likes of Clarke and Stewart for example won't run for a Tory party that has a no deal Brexit in its manifesto. Many others will be the same. A lot depends on where they detect to (if they defect at all) and the Tories can't take for granted that all leave areas are in favour of a no deal Brexit, they will lose supporters to the Lib Dems in some areas and unless they do a deal with the Brexit Party they risk a split vote. It's a risky strategy and one that essentially leads to the Tory party ceasing to exist. |
Think they'd back an effective coalition of Tory and BXP in FPTP.
Unless Labour come out explicitly as a Remain party (and it is probably too late even if they do) there will be a big vote split between any progressbve/remain alliance (LD, Green, SNP, Plaid) and them and that could open the door in what would almost be a re run of the referendum.
If Labour replace Corbyn, all bets are off - but I can't see that happeneing, they will just allow the Tories to push No Deal | |
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| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 13:55 - Jul 26 with 1353 views | Herbivore |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 13:30 - Jul 26 by itfcjoe |
Think they'd back an effective coalition of Tory and BXP in FPTP.
Unless Labour come out explicitly as a Remain party (and it is probably too late even if they do) there will be a big vote split between any progressbve/remain alliance (LD, Green, SNP, Plaid) and them and that could open the door in what would almost be a re run of the referendum.
If Labour replace Corbyn, all bets are off - but I can't see that happeneing, they will just allow the Tories to push No Deal |
It'll be interesting to see. It's possible that Labour, Lib Dems and SNP could win enough seats to form a progressive alliance. The country is really divided and a lot of it will come down to constituency boundaries with FPTP. I doubt a hard Brexit Tory party and the Brexit Party would poll a combined total of over 50% of the vote but they might not need to. | |
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| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:00 - Jul 26 with 1343 views | pickles110564 |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 13:55 - Jul 26 by Herbivore |
It'll be interesting to see. It's possible that Labour, Lib Dems and SNP could win enough seats to form a progressive alliance. The country is really divided and a lot of it will come down to constituency boundaries with FPTP. I doubt a hard Brexit Tory party and the Brexit Party would poll a combined total of over 50% of the vote but they might not need to. |
There are a lot of unhappy Labour supporters on both sides at the moment and they have history of voting for Boris in London.
If we do not leave before 31st October Nigel will have a very strong voice in the next parliament.
If you include Tory, Brexit Party and the DUP you might be surprised if they get over 50%, I wont. |  | | |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:01 - Jul 26 with 1337 views | SpruceMoose |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:00 - Jul 26 by pickles110564 |
There are a lot of unhappy Labour supporters on both sides at the moment and they have history of voting for Boris in London.
If we do not leave before 31st October Nigel will have a very strong voice in the next parliament.
If you include Tory, Brexit Party and the DUP you might be surprised if they get over 50%, I wont. |
Bad day for your Nige Pickly 
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jul/26/local-byelections-lib-dems-win- |  |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:06 - Jul 26 with 1325 views | Herbivore |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:00 - Jul 26 by pickles110564 |
There are a lot of unhappy Labour supporters on both sides at the moment and they have history of voting for Boris in London.
If we do not leave before 31st October Nigel will have a very strong voice in the next parliament.
If you include Tory, Brexit Party and the DUP you might be surprised if they get over 50%, I wont. |
Yeah but you're a troll so nothing you say has any value to me.
Latest polling has Labour/Lib Dem/Green on 52% vote share. Tory/Brexit only 42%. [Post edited 26 Jul 2019 14:09]
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| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:20 - Jul 26 with 1315 views | GlasgowBlue |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:06 - Jul 26 by Herbivore |
Yeah but you're a troll so nothing you say has any value to me.
Latest polling has Labour/Lib Dem/Green on 52% vote share. Tory/Brexit only 42%. [Post edited 26 Jul 2019 14:09]
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Which doesn't help anyone with FPTP.
In the event of a snap election, do you think it is easier for the Tories to go hard and peel off the Brexit Party votes or Labour to go remain and peel off the Lib Dem votes?
Six months ago I would have said Labour had the easier job but the longer it's dragged on people have seemed comfortable with the Lib Dems. | |
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| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:22 - Jul 26 with 1312 views | SpruceMoose |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:20 - Jul 26 by GlasgowBlue |
Which doesn't help anyone with FPTP.
In the event of a snap election, do you think it is easier for the Tories to go hard and peel off the Brexit Party votes or Labour to go remain and peel off the Lib Dem votes?
Six months ago I would have said Labour had the easier job but the longer it's dragged on people have seemed comfortable with the Lib Dems. |
Labour have most likely destroyed the chance of tempting any serious Remainers back if they are any thing like myself. I just don't trust them to genuinely attempt to avert Brexit, and that is leaving aside all their other issues. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:23 - Jul 26 with 1310 views | pickles110564 |
Only a bad day for you if we dont exit by 31st October, that is when our Nigel will take control. | | | |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:25 - Jul 26 with 1306 views | pickles110564 |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:06 - Jul 26 by Herbivore |
Yeah but you're a troll so nothing you say has any value to me.
Latest polling has Labour/Lib Dem/Green on 52% vote share. Tory/Brexit only 42%. [Post edited 26 Jul 2019 14:09]
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LOL, when have the polls ever been right? They never ask us working class what why we will vote, keep burying your head in the sand Herbie.
All will come good by 1st November. | | | |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:26 - Jul 26 with 1304 views | pickles110564 |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:22 - Jul 26 by SpruceMoose |
Labour have most likely destroyed the chance of tempting any serious Remainers back if they are any thing like myself. I just don't trust them to genuinely attempt to avert Brexit, and that is leaving aside all their other issues. |
Agreed. | | | |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:26 - Jul 26 with 1303 views | Herbivore |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:25 - Jul 26 by pickles110564 |
LOL, when have the polls ever been right? They never ask us working class what why we will vote, keep burying your head in the sand Herbie.
All will come good by 1st November. |
You do realise that once everyone knows you're a troll nothing you say has any impact? It's just white noise. | |
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| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:27 - Jul 26 with 1303 views | SpruceMoose |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:23 - Jul 26 by pickles110564 |
Only a bad day for you if we dont exit by 31st October, that is when our Nigel will take control. |
Bahahah Oh Pickles, you are funny sometimes. I take it back. Don't go. I want to see what creative excuse you come up with when we are still in the EU come November 1st. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:35 - Jul 26 with 1296 views | GlasgowBlue |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:22 - Jul 26 by SpruceMoose |
Labour have most likely destroyed the chance of tempting any serious Remainers back if they are any thing like myself. I just don't trust them to genuinely attempt to avert Brexit, and that is leaving aside all their other issues. |
And the hardline Brexiteers simply don't trust the Tories to deliver.
Both main parties will take a generation to recover imo. PR would sort all of this nonse out and if we are to have a coalition government then a proportional system is the fairest way to deliver. | |
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| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:37 - Jul 26 with 1293 views | SpruceMoose |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:35 - Jul 26 by GlasgowBlue |
And the hardline Brexiteers simply don't trust the Tories to deliver.
Both main parties will take a generation to recover imo. PR would sort all of this nonse out and if we are to have a coalition government then a proportional system is the fairest way to deliver. |
Agreed. I might find their views odious, but I still think the five million or however many it was who voted for UKIP should have some form of representation. | |
| Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:40 - Jul 26 with 1283 views | itfcjoe |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:20 - Jul 26 by GlasgowBlue |
Which doesn't help anyone with FPTP.
In the event of a snap election, do you think it is easier for the Tories to go hard and peel off the Brexit Party votes or Labour to go remain and peel off the Lib Dem votes?
Six months ago I would have said Labour had the easier job but the longer it's dragged on people have seemed comfortable with the Lib Dems. |
I will be voting for a remain party, and I will definitely not be voting for Labour under their current leadership - I do not believe that they are a remain party, and I don’t believe they can ever be seen as such in their current guise | |
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| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:42 - Jul 26 with 1281 views | DanTheMan |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:20 - Jul 26 by GlasgowBlue |
Which doesn't help anyone with FPTP.
In the event of a snap election, do you think it is easier for the Tories to go hard and peel off the Brexit Party votes or Labour to go remain and peel off the Lib Dem votes?
Six months ago I would have said Labour had the easier job but the longer it's dragged on people have seemed comfortable with the Lib Dems. |
If anything good was to come of this mess, it'll be that maybe people will reconsider whether FPTP is a suitable voting system for a modern country. |  |
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| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:59 - Jul 26 with 1263 views | GlasgowBlue |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:42 - Jul 26 by DanTheMan |
If anything good was to come of this mess, it'll be that maybe people will reconsider whether FPTP is a suitable voting system for a modern country. |
Is this something that concerns the general public though? I bet if we had a referendum on PR this year the turnout would be around 50% | |
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| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 15:30 - Jul 26 with 1247 views | Darth_Koont |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:42 - Jul 26 by DanTheMan |
If anything good was to come of this mess, it'll be that maybe people will reconsider whether FPTP is a suitable voting system for a modern country. |
Agreed. It's probably the root cause of our divisive politics and entirely props up the two main parties.
Both in opposition and in government, it also encourages them to focus on swing voters in key marginals and bribe them for their votes, rather than taking into account the needs of the country as a whole. Especially regions and communities whose support they can take for granted or, even worse, just ignore entirely as a lost cause along with their concerns.
That underlying imbalance and disenfranchisement pretty much instigated Brexit, the minute we stepped outside an FPTP framework. And I expect that it will eventually lead to Scottish independence if nothing is done to reform it.
Thinking that we have the oldest and greatest democracy (we don't) is exactly like saying we have the oldest and greatest broadband, roads, schools, healthcare etc. Utter self-defeating nonsense. [Post edited 26 Jul 2019 15:33]
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| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 17:58 - Jul 26 with 1202 views | DanTheMan |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 14:59 - Jul 26 by GlasgowBlue |
Is this something that concerns the general public though? I bet if we had a referendum on PR this year the turnout would be around 50% |
It might be if once again a large proportion of the country is unrepresented by the amount of votes.
In a time where people can be explicitly targeted digitally when they live in certain swing seats, FPTP and systems like it are becoming increasingly dangerous as well as just being undemocratic in my mind.
Funny looking back on the old AV vote and seeing the making of what was to come in some of the ads then. Who can forget the "if you find AV you'll be killing this kid". Worked stunningly well and was repeated with the infamous Brexit bus. [Post edited 26 Jul 2019 17:59]
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| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 18:08 - Jul 26 with 1188 views | GlasgowBlue |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 17:58 - Jul 26 by DanTheMan |
It might be if once again a large proportion of the country is unrepresented by the amount of votes.
In a time where people can be explicitly targeted digitally when they live in certain swing seats, FPTP and systems like it are becoming increasingly dangerous as well as just being undemocratic in my mind.
Funny looking back on the old AV vote and seeing the making of what was to come in some of the ads then. Who can forget the "if you find AV you'll be killing this kid". Worked stunningly well and was repeated with the infamous Brexit bus. [Post edited 26 Jul 2019 17:59]
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I don’t remember that ad. | |
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| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 19:31 - Jul 26 with 1156 views | DanTheMan |
| That cabinet isnt going to govern for long on 18:08 - Jul 26 by GlasgowBlue |
I don’t remember that ad. |
Didn't remember the ad quite right, got a bit mixed up between two of them. From the mind of Dominic Cummings...
That said the point is roughly the same. Look at the sick kid! It's crying! It's going to maybe die if you vote for AV!
Same with the soldier. It's a dumb argument that can be made about literally anything but it works. | |
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