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Some interesting thoughts and stats in this piece 08:07 - Aug 13 with 878 viewsGuthrum

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/aug/13/english-nationalism-brexit

Through work, I meet a lot of people who express those kinds of feelings.

Good Lord! Whatever is it?
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Some interesting thoughts and stats in this piece on 08:16 - Aug 13 with 849 viewschicoazul

I have felt for a while now that part of the Labour Party's problem with their stagnating popularity is they are seen as unpatriotic, the Maximum Leader particularly so. There is a place for left wing patriotism but decades of Well Actually from the left on this and many other topics has alienated many of their core.

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Some interesting thoughts and stats in this piece on 08:42 - Aug 13 with 790 viewsGuthrum

Some interesting thoughts and stats in this piece on 08:16 - Aug 13 by chicoazul

I have felt for a while now that part of the Labour Party's problem with their stagnating popularity is they are seen as unpatriotic, the Maximum Leader particularly so. There is a place for left wing patriotism but decades of Well Actually from the left on this and many other topics has alienated many of their core.


While that's true, I think it's a bit more "local" than that. The Labour Party used to be seen as coming from among the people, representatives who used to do working-class jobs before getting into politics. The man on the street could guarantee they held similar views and opinions, because maybe they used to work alongside them, or knew somebody who did.

Now Corbyn and his team are seen as being rather "metropolitan elite". Of the Shadow Cabinet, really only three or four of them have done any kind of real working class jobs (industry, shop assistants, care work), the rest being lawyers, journalists, party/union staff, administrators or civil servants, plus a couple of teachers.

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Some interesting thoughts and stats in this piece on 09:12 - Aug 13 with 731 viewsHerbivore

The tricky part is that he acknowledges that what they want is ill-defined and not a coherent set of ideas or policies whilst simultaneously saying that their ideas need to be connected with and represented. That's rather tricky when even they don't really know what they want.

And I do find the notion that England is being marginalised hard to take seriously, it's rather like middle aged white men claiming to be discriminated against these days because the push for equality has meant others being afforded opportunities, when the reality is that white middle class men represent an incredibly privileged demographic still.

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Some interesting thoughts and stats in this piece on 09:17 - Aug 13 with 722 viewsDarth_Koont

I have always had a lot of sympathy with English regions being ignored and have long complained about that, but these people who think that the UK doesn't work in English interests need a reality check. With almost all economic and political power in the South and South-East of England, clearly it works more in English interests rather than Scottish, Northern Irish or Welsh ones.

Which goes to show how damaging and distorting these views are. To talk about a solution and the best way forward we need to understand and admit the actual problem, but English nationalism just puts the problem elsewhere to gives us a worse solution.

What good is a nationalism that blinds people to the fact that successive governments haven't done enough for them? Because the simple truth is that these governments have been ideologically unwilling and unable to address poorer regions, communities and industries to redistribute the wealth that comes into the UK via London.

That's the problem we're dealing with and that has led to Brexit. The cruel irony is that the Leave campaign is being headed up by the people who are least likely to help out. Indeed will just increase the same divisions and imbalances they're now exploiting.

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Some interesting thoughts and stats in this piece on 09:21 - Aug 13 with 708 viewsDarth_Koont

Some interesting thoughts and stats in this piece on 09:12 - Aug 13 by Herbivore

The tricky part is that he acknowledges that what they want is ill-defined and not a coherent set of ideas or policies whilst simultaneously saying that their ideas need to be connected with and represented. That's rather tricky when even they don't really know what they want.

And I do find the notion that England is being marginalised hard to take seriously, it's rather like middle aged white men claiming to be discriminated against these days because the push for equality has meant others being afforded opportunities, when the reality is that white middle class men represent an incredibly privileged demographic still.


Agreed.

Particularly the second paragraph. The analogy with the perceptions of white, middle-aged men is spot on.

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