| Current Brexit polling 08:18 - Sep 10 with 11626 views | itfc_bucks |
So it seems that remain actually has a clear, if small, margin over leave now and its been consistent for quite some time now.
How on earth can it be undemocratic to have a final say on the deal/no deal vs remain?
There simply cannot be any argument against it now, can there? Nobody can claim they knew *how* Brexit would be enacted and the likely consequences. Now we know and should be allowed to have a say on that.
Surely? |  | | |  |
| Current Brexit polling on 17:00 - Sep 10 with 1558 views | StokieBlue |
| Current Brexit polling on 16:55 - Sep 10 by flimflam |
When parts of Europe have far better living standards than other parts of Europe then naturally people will want to improve their quality of life, I know I would if in their shoes.
But the recent numbers are unsustainable in the long run and the pressures on housing, schools, nhs and general services is too much which is partly the fault successive governments due to lack of investment.
If the EU had given Cameron the offer of controlling numbers coming in and then putting in place quotas based on skills required at any point in time then 99% of Brexit voters would have accepted that and we would still be in the EU.
Coming into the country from outside the EU has numerous hoops and checks in place for education, job offer, finances etc and it should be the same criteria where ever you are from. If thinking along those lines is racist then I am a racist. |
I think you've missed the entire point of his post.
None of the places listed are in the EU and thus leaving the EU doesn't change anything with regards to immigrants from those countries.
He's saying that in his anecdotal experience people didn't understand what they were voting for.
SB [Post edited 10 Sep 2019 17:01]
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| Current Brexit polling on 17:06 - Sep 10 with 1538 views | flimflam |
| Current Brexit polling on 17:00 - Sep 10 by StokieBlue |
I think you've missed the entire point of his post.
None of the places listed are in the EU and thus leaving the EU doesn't change anything with regards to immigrants from those countries.
He's saying that in his anecdotal experience people didn't understand what they were voting for.
SB [Post edited 10 Sep 2019 17:01]
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Would be interesting to know if immigrants from outside the EU bring more to the table than those from inside. |  |
| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| Current Brexit polling on 17:11 - Sep 10 with 1525 views | SpruceMoose |
| Current Brexit polling on 17:06 - Sep 10 by flimflam |
Would be interesting to know if immigrants from outside the EU bring more to the table than those from inside. |
You'd need to define what you mean by 'bring to the table'. |  |
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"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country." | | Poll: | Selectamod |
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| Current Brexit polling on 17:36 - Sep 10 with 1502 views | flimflam |
| Current Brexit polling on 17:11 - Sep 10 by SpruceMoose |
You'd need to define what you mean by 'bring to the table'. |
Input into the economy through taxes and specialist skills, ie doctors etc. | |
| All men and women are created, by the, you know the, you know the thing. |
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| Current Brexit polling on 17:37 - Sep 10 with 1501 views | GeoffSentence |
| Current Brexit polling on 16:25 - Sep 10 by jaykay |
trouble was major and blair did give them detail on the big sticking point on the back stop.
but the leavers were told dont listen to experts by gove etc. now the leavers say we never saw all this coming, but when they are told you were but wouldnt listen. so the more educated of the leavers tell the uneducated leavers ,see they are calling you thick etc. so its the remainers fault again. |
What a tangled web the fvcking idiots in charge weave |  |
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| Current Brexit polling on 20:13 - Sep 10 with 1441 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Current Brexit polling on 17:36 - Sep 10 by flimflam |
Input into the economy through taxes and specialist skills, ie doctors etc. |
Finacially, EU immigrats ‘perform’ better than non-EU immigrants (and better than the UK average, as you’d expect as the UK average includes includes everyone, whereas EU immigration is mostly a self-selecetion of younger, economically active people). This has been reported for some time.
I can dig out sources if you’d like when I’m on a desktop instead of my phone.
Impact of EU nationals was thoroughly investigsted by the Migration Advidory Cttee:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/sep/18/immigration-report-is-much-need |  |
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| Current Brexit polling on 20:53 - Sep 10 with 1422 views | crunchie1978 |
Its un democratic because you included remain! | | | |
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| Current Brexit polling on 21:00 - Sep 10 with 1415 views | jas0999 |
| Current Brexit polling on 08:56 - Sep 10 by Swansea_Blue |
It's not undemocratic. The issue is that we were promised that the result would be implemented. If they don't see it through it'll destroy trust in parliament for a decade or two (and potentially destroy the Tories too)
Mind you, given there's hardly any trust there and the Tories are bloody useless, lying, scheming a***holes, I'd say sod it just revoke A50 and end this utter madness. |
Interesting point of view and to an extent I agree. But when A Corbyn led Labour refuse to back a deal, no deal or an election, it’s tough to see how the will of the people will ever be realised? Even today Corbyn is sitting on the fence and hedging his bets. He supports remain, or leave depending on the view at the time and by potentially backing a second referendum. Essentially he may try to get a new deal and then back against it in a referendum for his political gain. It’s absurd.
Retainers will not support no deal, but back a crap deal.
Brexiteers will not support the crap deal, but back no deal.
It’s deadlock. | | | |
| Current Brexit polling on 21:15 - Sep 10 with 1391 views | Swansea_Blue |
| Current Brexit polling on 21:00 - Sep 10 by jas0999 |
Interesting point of view and to an extent I agree. But when A Corbyn led Labour refuse to back a deal, no deal or an election, it’s tough to see how the will of the people will ever be realised? Even today Corbyn is sitting on the fence and hedging his bets. He supports remain, or leave depending on the view at the time and by potentially backing a second referendum. Essentially he may try to get a new deal and then back against it in a referendum for his political gain. It’s absurd.
Retainers will not support no deal, but back a crap deal.
Brexiteers will not support the crap deal, but back no deal.
It’s deadlock. |
It wouldn’t be an issue if the government had a majority and one they could have relied on, not ERGers rebelling (note they didn’t have the whip withdrawn, but msybebit wasn’t a 3 line whip, dunno).
In that event (as is normal) Corbyn wpuld be irrelevant. So yep stuck, but largely because of May eroding her majority snd failure to control rogue elements in her party. I think. JC is useless though.
So yep, we’re stuck. I’m not in favour of a GE but at least there’s a chance it could return a working majority (it may not and then we may be no further forward - it’s a gamble). | |
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| Current Brexit polling on 21:25 - Sep 10 with 1370 views | Nthsuffolkblue |
| Current Brexit polling on 21:15 - Sep 10 by Swansea_Blue |
It wouldn’t be an issue if the government had a majority and one they could have relied on, not ERGers rebelling (note they didn’t have the whip withdrawn, but msybebit wasn’t a 3 line whip, dunno).
In that event (as is normal) Corbyn wpuld be irrelevant. So yep stuck, but largely because of May eroding her majority snd failure to control rogue elements in her party. I think. JC is useless though.
So yep, we’re stuck. I’m not in favour of a GE but at least there’s a chance it could return a working majority (it may not and then we may be no further forward - it’s a gamble). |
I think May cared about the Conservative party and wanted to find a compromise that might represent the very clearly divided desires of the country. As such, she did not make it a 3-line whip and was doomed to failure.
BoJo wants to be seen to be strong and stand against the liberals. He is prepared to strike them off the books and gain ground from the Brexit party. It is a risky strategy but plays very well to the hardline Brexiteers. The question is, what proportion are that hardline and how many of those would still prefer Brexit Party to him. |  |
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| Current Brexit polling on 21:38 - Sep 10 with 1354 views | Oldsmoker |
| Current Brexit polling on 21:00 - Sep 10 by jas0999 |
Interesting point of view and to an extent I agree. But when A Corbyn led Labour refuse to back a deal, no deal or an election, it’s tough to see how the will of the people will ever be realised? Even today Corbyn is sitting on the fence and hedging his bets. He supports remain, or leave depending on the view at the time and by potentially backing a second referendum. Essentially he may try to get a new deal and then back against it in a referendum for his political gain. It’s absurd.
Retainers will not support no deal, but back a crap deal.
Brexiteers will not support the crap deal, but back no deal.
It’s deadlock. |
There are a lot of MPs who are remain but are resigned to delivering the result of the referendum because that was what the voters decided.
Corbyn, as you point out, is not offering a clear direction.
Johnson has chosen a direction that the majority don't want.
The MPs are desperate for a clearer understanding of what "the will of the people" actually is because the referendum was more than 3 years ago.
A GE or a second referendum would give them a new starting point and possibly an answer to what "the will of the people" actually is.
It isn't 42. |  |
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