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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this 21:12 - Sep 10 with 2938 viewsDarth_Koont

It would be good to hear criticism from all those Israel-supporting groups like the Tory leadership, the CFI and LFI who say they are actually working for a two-state solution ... oh I forgot. That's just lip service as they again stand idly by and do nothing about the latest in the long line of annexations that is destroying the viability of any future Palestinian state.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-49655226

Whether it's arming and training the Saudis to kill Yemenis, trying to manipulate factional power for commercial gain or providing a shelter for the religious and nationalist right in Israel to operate with impunity, the UK establishment is a shameful enemy of the people of the Middle East.

Do we really want our country to be seen like this?
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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 22:05 - Sep 10 with 1325 viewsSteve_M

It should be possible to criticise - rightly- one more dreadful action from Netanyahu without trying to score internet points.

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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 22:18 - Sep 10 with 1301 viewsDarth_Koont

When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 22:05 - Sep 10 by Steve_M

It should be possible to criticise - rightly- one more dreadful action from Netanyahu without trying to score internet points.


Internet points? I'm actually referring to our politicians who have stated they are in favour of a two-state solution but who again will say or do nothing as the likelihood of that gets ever smaller. However, they will of course lead the fight against genuine critics of the Israeli government.

But I'm glad you've taken this personally and perhaps you will have a think about your own stance a little more.
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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:19 - Sep 11 with 1080 viewsGlasgowBlue

Netanyahu is a fanatic. He has no intention of pursuing a peaceful two state solution. His proposition to annex the Jordan Valley if he is re elected is reason enough for all decent Israelis to reject him and his extremist policies at the ballot box next week. I also hope he goes to jail for corruption.

That was easy to do without calling other people out Darth.

"History is made, sadly, by people who are bystanders and do nothing. Their inaction is an excuse and a cover for intolerance".
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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:28 - Sep 11 with 1064 viewsDarth_Koont

When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:19 - Sep 11 by GlasgowBlue

Netanyahu is a fanatic. He has no intention of pursuing a peaceful two state solution. His proposition to annex the Jordan Valley if he is re elected is reason enough for all decent Israelis to reject him and his extremist policies at the ballot box next week. I also hope he goes to jail for corruption.

That was easy to do without calling other people out Darth.


You've missed the point.

Where are our government and politicians saying that? The people who expressly say they want a two-state solution?

And why are those who are actively pro-Palestinian demonised for expressing that view, given the Palestinians have been bearing the brunt of these extremist policies for decades?

But you know why.
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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:32 - Sep 11 with 1037 viewsgiant_ullaa

When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 22:18 - Sep 10 by Darth_Koont

Internet points? I'm actually referring to our politicians who have stated they are in favour of a two-state solution but who again will say or do nothing as the likelihood of that gets ever smaller. However, they will of course lead the fight against genuine critics of the Israeli government.

But I'm glad you've taken this personally and perhaps you will have a think about your own stance a little more.


Darth come on, that last line is ridiculously and self-righteously patronising!

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry.
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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:37 - Sep 11 with 1009 viewsKropotkin123



For those that are interested

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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:40 - Sep 11 with 997 viewsDarth_Koont

When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:32 - Sep 11 by giant_ullaa

Darth come on, that last line is ridiculously and self-righteously patronising!


The situation sits very badly with me. Delegitimising critical voices is certainly a part of that and enabled much of this passive acceptance.

If Steve took it personally and saw it as an attack then he can explain why he took it personally and why it's unfair. Perhaps you can?
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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:44 - Sep 11 with 964 viewsBackToRussia

When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 22:18 - Sep 10 by Darth_Koont

Internet points? I'm actually referring to our politicians who have stated they are in favour of a two-state solution but who again will say or do nothing as the likelihood of that gets ever smaller. However, they will of course lead the fight against genuine critics of the Israeli government.

But I'm glad you've taken this personally and perhaps you will have a think about your own stance a little more.


Quite. You were quite clear in who this post was aimed at, and I don't see Steve or GB's name anywhere.

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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:45 - Sep 11 with 963 viewsSteve_M

When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:40 - Sep 11 by Darth_Koont

The situation sits very badly with me. Delegitimising critical voices is certainly a part of that and enabled much of this passive acceptance.

If Steve took it personally and saw it as an attack then he can explain why he took it personally and why it's unfair. Perhaps you can?


Not personally but your mention of LFI is either careless or mendacious as it implicitly de-legitimises those cases of anti-Semitism they have highlighted. You are doign what you accuse others of.

Netanyahu is a dreadful racist doing everything he can to stay in power and avoid potential court cases for corruption. He has been enabled by Trump and it is clear that he, and many on the Israeli right don't care what happens to the Palestinians.

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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:50 - Sep 11 with 944 viewsgiant_ullaa

When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:40 - Sep 11 by Darth_Koont

The situation sits very badly with me. Delegitimising critical voices is certainly a part of that and enabled much of this passive acceptance.

If Steve took it personally and saw it as an attack then he can explain why he took it personally and why it's unfair. Perhaps you can?


Steve can reply for himself if he wants to to innit - I'm just commenting purely on your tone.

My opinion: I don't know why the Netanyahu would kid himself that this would ever make things better for any party in the long run. Seems like another step towards all out war to me, but then I'm a simpleton. Critical voices who stray into antisemitism let their own side down though and make that delegitimisation you mention possible

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry.
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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:52 - Sep 11 with 942 viewsbrazil1982

Perhaps if Hamas b*ggered off, the UK et al would have the time and patience to "do something"

So long as a terrorist organisation controls part of this region, and vows to destroy the state of Israel, we should be considered allies of Israel.
The Leader of Hamas resides in Qatar which must be very comfy for him.
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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:54 - Sep 11 with 931 viewsDarth_Koont

When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:45 - Sep 11 by Steve_M

Not personally but your mention of LFI is either careless or mendacious as it implicitly de-legitimises those cases of anti-Semitism they have highlighted. You are doign what you accuse others of.

Netanyahu is a dreadful racist doing everything he can to stay in power and avoid potential court cases for corruption. He has been enabled by Trump and it is clear that he, and many on the Israeli right don't care what happens to the Palestinians.


We agree completely on the last para.

Unfortunately we need to be clear about the UK's role in enabling this too. While not as overt and provocative as Trump, over a longer period we have been a buffer to Israel and the international criticism. At the heart of that are governments and lobbyists who say that they are committed to a two-state solution. That's just nonsense and giving them cover for this passive acceptance of what's going on.

The LFI with Joan Ryan at the centre completely made up a case of antisemitism and took an active role in pushing the Labour antisemitism smears. If you don't know this then you've ignored the filmed and documented evidence. If you do know this but won't admit it, then you're doing the same thing they are.
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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:56 - Sep 11 with 922 viewsgiant_ullaa

When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:52 - Sep 11 by brazil1982

Perhaps if Hamas b*ggered off, the UK et al would have the time and patience to "do something"

So long as a terrorist organisation controls part of this region, and vows to destroy the state of Israel, we should be considered allies of Israel.
The Leader of Hamas resides in Qatar which must be very comfy for him.


Funny you talk about vows to destroy Israel, when this plan in affect destroys any future Palestinian state.

Has anyone ever looked at their own postings for last day or so? Oh my... so sorry.
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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:59 - Sep 11 with 903 viewsGlasgowBlue

When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:54 - Sep 11 by Darth_Koont

We agree completely on the last para.

Unfortunately we need to be clear about the UK's role in enabling this too. While not as overt and provocative as Trump, over a longer period we have been a buffer to Israel and the international criticism. At the heart of that are governments and lobbyists who say that they are committed to a two-state solution. That's just nonsense and giving them cover for this passive acceptance of what's going on.

The LFI with Joan Ryan at the centre completely made up a case of antisemitism and took an active role in pushing the Labour antisemitism smears. If you don't know this then you've ignored the filmed and documented evidence. If you do know this but won't admit it, then you're doing the same thing they are.


Well that didn’t take long did it?

"History is made, sadly, by people who are bystanders and do nothing. Their inaction is an excuse and a cover for intolerance".
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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:59 - Sep 11 with 903 viewsBanksterDebtSlave

When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:50 - Sep 11 by giant_ullaa

Steve can reply for himself if he wants to to innit - I'm just commenting purely on your tone.

My opinion: I don't know why the Netanyahu would kid himself that this would ever make things better for any party in the long run. Seems like another step towards all out war to me, but then I'm a simpleton. Critical voices who stray into antisemitism let their own side down though and make that delegitimisation you mention possible


....it's almost like the current incarnation of the Israeli state is a racist endeavour !
....oh now look what I've gone and become...

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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 09:06 - Sep 11 with 881 viewsDarth_Koont

When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:52 - Sep 11 by brazil1982

Perhaps if Hamas b*ggered off, the UK et al would have the time and patience to "do something"

So long as a terrorist organisation controls part of this region, and vows to destroy the state of Israel, we should be considered allies of Israel.
The Leader of Hamas resides in Qatar which must be very comfy for him.


It's like we've learnt nothing from our own experiences in Northern Ireland.

If we support one side, or at least turn a blind eye to their aggressive actions, then we worsen the situation and make peace less and less of a possibility and certainly pushing it further into the future. There's right and wrong on both sides and the Israeli and Palestinian citizens shouldn't be made to pay the price for the extreme positions this type of situation takes their political leaders.

When Israel went into Gaza, Cameron parroted the line that Israel had the right to defend itself (yes, of course but this was an incursion) while Miliband argued that he didn't think this would make the situation better (it certainly hasn't). However, Miliband's views were termed toxic by Israel and its supporters.

What hope do we have with this type of thinking especially if our governments and elected represenattives passively accept it? It's 2019 and we should be calling it out and condemning aggression on both sides.
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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 09:07 - Sep 11 with 867 viewslowhouseblue

When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:59 - Sep 11 by GlasgowBlue

Well that didn’t take long did it?


he's a one trick pony i'm afraid. the thread is just him running through his standard routine about anti-semitism being invented to serve the purposes of israel etc. same old, same old.

And so as the loose-bowelled pigeon of time swoops low over the unsuspecting tourist of destiny, and the flatulent skunk of fate wanders into the air-conditioning system of eternity, I notice it's the end of the show

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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 09:08 - Sep 11 with 863 viewsGlasgowBlue

When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:59 - Sep 11 by BanksterDebtSlave

....it's almost like the current incarnation of the Israeli state is a racist endeavour !
....oh now look what I've gone and become...


You don’t understand what racist endeavour means do you?

"History is made, sadly, by people who are bystanders and do nothing. Their inaction is an excuse and a cover for intolerance".
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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 09:10 - Sep 11 with 855 viewsDarth_Koont

When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:59 - Sep 11 by BanksterDebtSlave

....it's almost like the current incarnation of the Israeli state is a racist endeavour !
....oh now look what I've gone and become...


Of course it is. And getting even worse too if this election plays out as it seems.

We've basically given free rein to extremist fundamentalists and screwed over many moderate and critical Israelis in the process. Not to mention the future of the Palestinian people in the region.
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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 09:10 - Sep 11 with 856 viewsGaryCooper

When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 09:06 - Sep 11 by Darth_Koont

It's like we've learnt nothing from our own experiences in Northern Ireland.

If we support one side, or at least turn a blind eye to their aggressive actions, then we worsen the situation and make peace less and less of a possibility and certainly pushing it further into the future. There's right and wrong on both sides and the Israeli and Palestinian citizens shouldn't be made to pay the price for the extreme positions this type of situation takes their political leaders.

When Israel went into Gaza, Cameron parroted the line that Israel had the right to defend itself (yes, of course but this was an incursion) while Miliband argued that he didn't think this would make the situation better (it certainly hasn't). However, Miliband's views were termed toxic by Israel and its supporters.

What hope do we have with this type of thinking especially if our governments and elected represenattives passively accept it? It's 2019 and we should be calling it out and condemning aggression on both sides.


'If we support one side, or at least turn a blind eye to their aggressive actions, then we worsen the situation'

That's him, that's Jeremy C in NI summed up perfectly, open your other eye.
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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 09:16 - Sep 11 with 825 viewsDarth_Koont

When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 09:10 - Sep 11 by GaryCooper

'If we support one side, or at least turn a blind eye to their aggressive actions, then we worsen the situation'

That's him, that's Jeremy C in NI summed up perfectly, open your other eye.


Eh? Our own government and army was doing that.

We eventually de-escalated the situation by NOT taking sides and accepting that discussion and negotiation was needed.

Corbyn wanting to legitimise the Republican cause when it was being ignored is the same sort of thing. And decades later anyone sensible can surely realise that.
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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 09:20 - Sep 11 with 813 viewsDarth_Koont

When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 09:07 - Sep 11 by lowhouseblue

he's a one trick pony i'm afraid. the thread is just him running through his standard routine about anti-semitism being invented to serve the purposes of israel etc. same old, same old.


Same old evasion and misrepresentation of what I'm actually saying.

Where do you disagree? At what point does your recognition of who Netanyahu is and what his government is doing transform itself into acceptance and attacking his critics instead?
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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 09:26 - Sep 11 with 788 viewsbrazil1982

When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:59 - Sep 11 by BanksterDebtSlave

....it's almost like the current incarnation of the Israeli state is a racist endeavour !
....oh now look what I've gone and become...


How many Jews reside in "Palestine" ?
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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 09:29 - Sep 11 with 778 viewsSwansea_Blue

When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 08:37 - Sep 11 by Kropotkin123



For those that are interested


Useful to a Middle East ignoramus like me, thanks. Before I dig in though is this reliable (genuine question, I've no idea who Vox is)?

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When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 09:50 - Sep 11 with 735 viewsbrazil1982

When you delegitimise and marginalise critics then you're free to do this on 09:16 - Sep 11 by Darth_Koont

Eh? Our own government and army was doing that.

We eventually de-escalated the situation by NOT taking sides and accepting that discussion and negotiation was needed.

Corbyn wanting to legitimise the Republican cause when it was being ignored is the same sort of thing. And decades later anyone sensible can surely realise that.


JC had nothing to do with peace talks in NI. He achieved nothing. Only ever supported the Republican movement both politically and militarily.
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