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"Systems don't win games, players do" 19:34 - Sep 12 with 5117 viewstractorboy1978

People's thoughts on that statement from PL?
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"Systems don't win games, players do" on 19:35 - Sep 12 with 4211 viewsHerbivore

A bit too 'Arry for my liking.

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"Systems don't win games, players do" on 19:38 - Sep 12 with 4188 viewsSpruceMoose

"Systems don't win games, players do" on 19:35 - Sep 12 by Herbivore

A bit too 'Arry for my liking.


Probably true in Division three.

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(No subject) on 19:42 - Sep 12 with 4180 viewsBlue_Order

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"Systems don't win games, players do" on 19:43 - Sep 12 with 4172 viewsitfcjoe

It’s definitely right to an extent, but there has to be a balance if you want to be a better side and your recruitment has to be focussed in that respect

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"Systems don't win games, players do" on 19:50 - Sep 12 with 4141 viewsPJH

The system being played probably won us the title in 1961/62 because it was different to how all the other teams played and it took them a season to work it out.
On the other hand the system was devised by Alf Ramsey to make the best use of the players that he had.


Nearly 60 years later and most teams are playing variations of about three systems but back then in the top division 21 teams played one system and 1 played a different one-that team finished top.
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(No subject) on 19:51 - Sep 12 with 4142 viewstractorboy1978

"Systems don't win games, players do" on 19:43 - Sep 12 by itfcjoe

It’s definitely right to an extent, but there has to be a balance if you want to be a better side and your recruitment has to be focussed in that respect


It's certainly true when you have significantly better players than most in the division and probably the best squad in the league. But to progress beyond this season, system, partnerships and patterns of play are vitally important I would think.
[Post edited 12 Sep 2019 19:51]
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"Systems don't win games, players do" on 19:52 - Sep 12 with 4137 viewsRegencyBlue

Don’t think it’s one or the other in isolation, it’s a combination of the two!
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"Systems don't win games, players do" on 19:59 - Sep 12 with 4122 viewsMullet

I think he's negating the fact we stumbled on 442 and it clicked, but we will certainly move away from it to utilise the CMs and rotate the strikers.

It'd be uncharitable to say that PL is not a tactician. But given he has lived and died on holding on to specific players in rigid formations at his previous clubs, it's clear he doesn't like to tinker and has an outlook around everyone conforming to certain ideals.

Seems in this division it's counter attacking and giving poor teams so much possession in key areas that they play themselves into trouble and we blow them away.

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"Systems don't win games, players do" on 20:26 - Sep 12 with 4094 viewsITFCAnalytics

"Systems don't win games, players do" on 19:59 - Sep 12 by Mullet

I think he's negating the fact we stumbled on 442 and it clicked, but we will certainly move away from it to utilise the CMs and rotate the strikers.

It'd be uncharitable to say that PL is not a tactician. But given he has lived and died on holding on to specific players in rigid formations at his previous clubs, it's clear he doesn't like to tinker and has an outlook around everyone conforming to certain ideals.

Seems in this division it's counter attacking and giving poor teams so much possession in key areas that they play themselves into trouble and we blow them away.


Exactly what teams did to us last season and caused our relegation at times!
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(No subject) on 20:46 - Sep 12 with 4051 viewsSporall

(No subject) on 19:42 - Sep 12 by Blue_Order



Haha, was going to post the same myself.
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"Systems don't win games, players do" on 21:29 - Sep 12 with 3982 viewsSomethingBlue

Absolutely true; I promise you Guardiola, Klopp and anyone else would say it.

Way back in the day, I remember Joe Royle saying exactly the same and being ripped apart by posters who knew much better ...

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"Systems don't win games, players do" on 21:51 - Sep 12 with 3912 viewsTerry_Nutkins

Its just press talk. Simple as that.

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"Systems don't win games, players do" on 22:07 - Sep 12 with 3871 viewsmrshallisfit

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"Systems don't win games, players do" on 22:31 - Sep 12 with 3816 viewsdavblue

"Systems don't win games, players do" on 19:59 - Sep 12 by Mullet

I think he's negating the fact we stumbled on 442 and it clicked, but we will certainly move away from it to utilise the CMs and rotate the strikers.

It'd be uncharitable to say that PL is not a tactician. But given he has lived and died on holding on to specific players in rigid formations at his previous clubs, it's clear he doesn't like to tinker and has an outlook around everyone conforming to certain ideals.

Seems in this division it's counter attacking and giving poor teams so much possession in key areas that they play themselves into trouble and we blow them away.


He's very much been a counter attacking manager from his Norwich days onwards.
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"Systems don't win games, players do" on 22:46 - Sep 12 with 3788 viewsmonty_radio

"Systems don't win games, players do" on 21:51 - Sep 12 by Terry_Nutkins

Its just press talk. Simple as that.


But it's also talk that simply says, in effect, "I know all you newspaper guys and part-time pundits spend a lot of time dissecting failure, and picking a team and a system that will deliver it better, but I'm not sharing my job with you to that extent. " Such tactics are a manager's staple to maintain their own unique control behind dressing room doors.

Mick had several variations on the theme, including bigging up a player to whoever was asking, but who then did not even appear in the matchday 18.

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(No subject) on 23:32 - Sep 12 with 3751 viewsPhilTWTD

"Systems don't win games, players do" on 19:59 - Sep 12 by Mullet

I think he's negating the fact we stumbled on 442 and it clicked, but we will certainly move away from it to utilise the CMs and rotate the strikers.

It'd be uncharitable to say that PL is not a tactician. But given he has lived and died on holding on to specific players in rigid formations at his previous clubs, it's clear he doesn't like to tinker and has an outlook around everyone conforming to certain ideals.

Seems in this division it's counter attacking and giving poor teams so much possession in key areas that they play themselves into trouble and we blow them away.


Not sure I'd say 4-4-2's clicked as such as I don't think we've played particularly well with it, certainly not in terms of dominating games, aside from Sunderland. It has been getting us results however, which at the end of the day is what counts. I agree with you that ultimately we'll probably move to 4-3-3, which is the system which suits our personnel best.

The 'it's not systems which win games, it's players' comment reminded me of Joe Royle, he used to say that a lot when people were overanalysing things - usually when he played 4-5-1/4-3-3 - back in his day.

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(No subject) on 23:36 - Sep 12 with 3731 viewsStokieBlue

(No subject) on 23:32 - Sep 12 by PhilTWTD

Not sure I'd say 4-4-2's clicked as such as I don't think we've played particularly well with it, certainly not in terms of dominating games, aside from Sunderland. It has been getting us results however, which at the end of the day is what counts. I agree with you that ultimately we'll probably move to 4-3-3, which is the system which suits our personnel best.

The 'it's not systems which win games, it's players' comment reminded me of Joe Royle, he used to say that a lot when people were overanalysing things - usually when he played 4-5-1/4-3-3 - back in his day.

This post has been edited by an administrator


How would 4-3-3 work without dropping one of Jackson or Norwood? Given they are both scoring pretty freely it would seem odd to stop playing 2 up. I could see a change of formation but 2 up clearly works pretty well with those 2.

SB

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(No subject) on 23:54 - Sep 12 with 3707 viewsPhilTWTD

(No subject) on 23:36 - Sep 12 by StokieBlue

How would 4-3-3 work without dropping one of Jackson or Norwood? Given they are both scoring pretty freely it would seem odd to stop playing 2 up. I could see a change of formation but 2 up clearly works pretty well with those 2.

SB


It's working in terms of the two of them getting goals, at the moment at least, but I'm not convinced it's the best system for us to control games. Obviously that matters less when your strikers are scoring goals - and defensively you're not letting in many goals or lookng like you'll let in many goals for the most part - and you're winning games.

Assuming 4-4-2 remains the system for the next little while, will be interesting who the first-choice pairing is once Keane, the best of the three strikers, is up to speed.
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(No subject) on 03:15 - Sep 13 with 3602 viewsIllinoisblue

(No subject) on 23:32 - Sep 12 by PhilTWTD

Not sure I'd say 4-4-2's clicked as such as I don't think we've played particularly well with it, certainly not in terms of dominating games, aside from Sunderland. It has been getting us results however, which at the end of the day is what counts. I agree with you that ultimately we'll probably move to 4-3-3, which is the system which suits our personnel best.

The 'it's not systems which win games, it's players' comment reminded me of Joe Royle, he used to say that a lot when people were overanalysing things - usually when he played 4-5-1/4-3-3 - back in his day.

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it's easy to forget just how bad the first half of the Wimbledon game was.

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(No subject) on 07:41 - Sep 13 with 3471 viewsChocorange

(No subject) on 03:15 - Sep 13 by Illinoisblue

it's easy to forget just how bad the first half of the Wimbledon game was.


It's easy to forget Lambo chose to rotate his squad against a weaker side.

Wilson, Dozzell, El Mizouni, Donacien and even Rowe all played the first half against Wimbledon, not many of those would be in us as fans first choice or best 11 going forward this season .

And we are therefore neatly back to what the OP says.
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(No subject) on 08:08 - Sep 13 with 3423 viewsDubtractor

(No subject) on 03:15 - Sep 13 by Illinoisblue

it's easy to forget just how bad the first half of the Wimbledon game was.


I've not forgotten....

We have consistently been awful with one up front for the last season and a bit.

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"Systems don't win games, players do" on 08:19 - Sep 13 with 3394 viewsReusersgreasymop

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"Systems don't win games, players do" on 08:28 - Sep 13 with 3368 viewsBiGDonnie

Course it's true.

How do you think a team of one legged players would do in the best system in the world?

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"Systems don't win games, players do" on 08:31 - Sep 13 with 3364 viewsBigManBlue

Seems more likely to me that he's just trying to wind the opposition up, get them more worried about how we're going to set up than their own game.

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(No subject) on 08:39 - Sep 13 with 3340 viewsHerbivore

(No subject) on 07:41 - Sep 13 by Chocorange

It's easy to forget Lambo chose to rotate his squad against a weaker side.

Wilson, Dozzell, El Mizouni, Donacien and even Rowe all played the first half against Wimbledon, not many of those would be in us as fans first choice or best 11 going forward this season .

And we are therefore neatly back to what the OP says.


Rowe has played most games this season.

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