| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? 22:16 - Sep 15 with 26442 views | Fixed_It |
If that's what it takes then I would. |  |
| |  |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:18 - Sep 15 with 4800 views | J2BLUE |
It will probably force Labour into promising a second referendum.
What deal are we staying on if Lib Dems win? Current deal with rebates? Punishment deal? Cameron's negotiated deal? |  |
| |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:24 - Sep 15 with 4781 views | wkj |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:18 - Sep 15 by J2BLUE |
It will probably force Labour into promising a second referendum.
What deal are we staying on if Lib Dems win? Current deal with rebates? Punishment deal? Cameron's negotiated deal? |
I can potentially see LD swallowing their pride and forming a coalition with Labour with that condition |  |
| |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:29 - Sep 15 with 4763 views | BrixtonBlue |
Aren't they now saying if we leave they want to cut all ties with Europe and no chance of a return? Seems an odd position for a 'Stop Brexit' party to take. |  |
| |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:30 - Sep 15 with 4759 views | StokieBlue |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:18 - Sep 15 by J2BLUE |
It will probably force Labour into promising a second referendum.
What deal are we staying on if Lib Dems win? Current deal with rebates? Punishment deal? Cameron's negotiated deal? |
If article 50 is revoked then nothing has changed - there is no "deal".
Labour promising a second referendum won't be enough for a lot of people. It's clear that decisions of this scale and complexity can't be adequately decided via a referendum so having another one wouldn't appeal to many.
SB |  |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:31 - Sep 15 with 4747 views | StokieBlue |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:29 - Sep 15 by BrixtonBlue |
Aren't they now saying if we leave they want to cut all ties with Europe and no chance of a return? Seems an odd position for a 'Stop Brexit' party to take. |
Not sure where you read that - got a source?
Chuka has literally said tonight that if we do have a Brexit the Lib Dems should campaign to rejoin the EU.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/liberal-democrats-brexit-uk-rejoi
SB [Post edited 15 Sep 2019 22:32]
| |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:32 - Sep 15 with 4744 views | Oxford_Blue |
So much for being called the liberal “democrats”.
We had a vote. It was called a referendum. 17.4 million people all with equal votes and the right to have their voices heard voted to leave.
Now, I respect the fact that others on the losing side had a different view. But to simply ignore the result of the referendum and to break promises that were made at the time to honour the result and by parliament thereafter when it triggered Article 50 leaves me very concerned indeed. It goes to the issue of democracy. A second referendum at least allows another chance for a vote, as opposed to simple overriding it. |  | | |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:34 - Sep 15 with 4715 views | StokieBlue |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:32 - Sep 15 by Oxford_Blue |
So much for being called the liberal “democrats”.
We had a vote. It was called a referendum. 17.4 million people all with equal votes and the right to have their voices heard voted to leave.
Now, I respect the fact that others on the losing side had a different view. But to simply ignore the result of the referendum and to break promises that were made at the time to honour the result and by parliament thereafter when it triggered Article 50 leaves me very concerned indeed. It goes to the issue of democracy. A second referendum at least allows another chance for a vote, as opposed to simple overriding it. |
Isn't a general election the ultimate democracy in the country given it decides who makes our laws and decisions for us?
If they were to win it would seem to make your argument null unless it only works when you like the decision?
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:35 - Sep 15 with 4708 views | wkj |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:32 - Sep 15 by Oxford_Blue |
So much for being called the liberal “democrats”.
We had a vote. It was called a referendum. 17.4 million people all with equal votes and the right to have their voices heard voted to leave.
Now, I respect the fact that others on the losing side had a different view. But to simply ignore the result of the referendum and to break promises that were made at the time to honour the result and by parliament thereafter when it triggered Article 50 leaves me very concerned indeed. It goes to the issue of democracy. A second referendum at least allows another chance for a vote, as opposed to simple overriding it. |
Oh well, bored of it now, move on. Politicians ignoring civilians... shocker | |
| |
Login to get fewer ads
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:37 - Sep 15 with 4690 views | J2BLUE |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:30 - Sep 15 by StokieBlue |
If article 50 is revoked then nothing has changed - there is no "deal".
Labour promising a second referendum won't be enough for a lot of people. It's clear that decisions of this scale and complexity can't be adequately decided via a referendum so having another one wouldn't appeal to many.
SB |
Come on Stokie, pedantry aside, you know exactly what I mean.
Are the changes offered to Cameron still on the table? Will the EU accept us staying on current terms or will they attempt to change our current deal? I know Article 50 can be revoked by us without EU consent but I doubt that would stop them if they wanted to remove our rebates and opt outs. | |
| |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:39 - Sep 15 with 4688 views | Oxford_Blue |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:34 - Sep 15 by StokieBlue |
Isn't a general election the ultimate democracy in the country given it decides who makes our laws and decisions for us?
If they were to win it would seem to make your argument null unless it only works when you like the decision?
SB |
Decisions like this have to be taken as one-offs.
What you are advocating is to introduce the concept that a supposedly binding decision can be overturned again and again despite promises made if one party doesn’t like it. My concern is that this creates a very dangerous precedent and undermines trust in the process.
I agree a general election is clearly key - but I don’t think the Lib Dems have a realistic chance of winning it alone and I don’t think labour will stand on the platform of cancelling the referendum result because it would lose them millions of votes. It’s therefore probably academic.
I suspect a second referendum is more likely. It seems to me that the wind is blowing in that direction and Parliament is unable or unwilling on the current numbers to effect the referendum result. | | | |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:43 - Sep 15 with 4665 views | Fixed_It |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:32 - Sep 15 by Oxford_Blue |
So much for being called the liberal “democrats”.
We had a vote. It was called a referendum. 17.4 million people all with equal votes and the right to have their voices heard voted to leave.
Now, I respect the fact that others on the losing side had a different view. But to simply ignore the result of the referendum and to break promises that were made at the time to honour the result and by parliament thereafter when it triggered Article 50 leaves me very concerned indeed. It goes to the issue of democracy. A second referendum at least allows another chance for a vote, as opposed to simple overriding it. |
If the whole process has proved nothing else, it has proved that the issue of Brexit was/is too complex to have been put to the people in a binary In/Out referendum. Democracy is about voting in representatives to represent us in dealing with complex issues. The fact is that a great many MPs are rejecting a No Deal Brexit in order to save us from the economic chaos it would bring, whilst many voters just want us to leave because they are 'fed up with it now' and because 'it's our democratic right'. [Post edited 15 Sep 2019 22:46]
| |
| |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:44 - Sep 15 with 4647 views | footers |
I'm voting Tory.
They have some great ideas and their policies will help me financially :) |  |
| |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:45 - Sep 15 with 4632 views | Sarge |
Yes. Without question. | | | |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:45 - Sep 15 with 4631 views | StokieBlue |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:37 - Sep 15 by J2BLUE |
Come on Stokie, pedantry aside, you know exactly what I mean.
Are the changes offered to Cameron still on the table? Will the EU accept us staying on current terms or will they attempt to change our current deal? I know Article 50 can be revoked by us without EU consent but I doubt that would stop them if they wanted to remove our rebates and opt outs. |
Well they can't at the moment because we have a veto and would simply veto any attempt. The could try and instigate majority voting but not sure how that would go down with some members - not well in places like Hungary I suspect.
The Germans also wouldn't want to try it, anything like that is likely to stir up more leave feeling and they don't want us to go.
So as it stands we would go back to how everything was in 2016.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:45 - Sep 15 with 4633 views | wkj |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:44 - Sep 15 by footers |
I'm voting Tory.
They have some great ideas and their policies will help me financially :) |
2-4-1 Wrap around sunnies and biff tannon hair cuts for all! | |
| |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:47 - Sep 15 with 4606 views | StokieBlue |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:39 - Sep 15 by Oxford_Blue |
Decisions like this have to be taken as one-offs.
What you are advocating is to introduce the concept that a supposedly binding decision can be overturned again and again despite promises made if one party doesn’t like it. My concern is that this creates a very dangerous precedent and undermines trust in the process.
I agree a general election is clearly key - but I don’t think the Lib Dems have a realistic chance of winning it alone and I don’t think labour will stand on the platform of cancelling the referendum result because it would lose them millions of votes. It’s therefore probably academic.
I suspect a second referendum is more likely. It seems to me that the wind is blowing in that direction and Parliament is unable or unwilling on the current numbers to effect the referendum result. |
"What you are advocating is to introduce the concept that a supposedly binding decision can be overturned again and again despite promises made if one party doesn’t like it."
This happens every general election. I think quite a few (although not me) will take issue with the term "binding decision" as it's been clearly shown the referendum was non-binding.
i agree they won't get elected, but that doesn't mean it can't be discussed.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:49 - Sep 15 with 4590 views | bournemouthblue |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:32 - Sep 15 by Oxford_Blue |
So much for being called the liberal “democrats”.
We had a vote. It was called a referendum. 17.4 million people all with equal votes and the right to have their voices heard voted to leave.
Now, I respect the fact that others on the losing side had a different view. But to simply ignore the result of the referendum and to break promises that were made at the time to honour the result and by parliament thereafter when it triggered Article 50 leaves me very concerned indeed. It goes to the issue of democracy. A second referendum at least allows another chance for a vote, as opposed to simple overriding it. |
I'm not sticking up for the Lib Dems argument here, they will have speak for themselves on that one
However, the old we have had a vote argument where it is seen as undemocratic to reconsider a decision made three years ago from what in reality will effect the UK for the next 30 - 40 years is bathed massively in irony
The whole point of a democracy is that you are allowed an opinion, you are perfectly entitled to argue that opinion
Theresa May and now Boris have acted multiple times to purge any opposition to their plans. Is this really the parliamentary sovereignty the Brexiteers voted for?
Taking back control so we can simply sell national assets off to non-EU powers, is that really the Brexit dream? |  |
| |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:49 - Sep 15 with 4576 views | Herbivore |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:37 - Sep 15 by J2BLUE |
Come on Stokie, pedantry aside, you know exactly what I mean.
Are the changes offered to Cameron still on the table? Will the EU accept us staying on current terms or will they attempt to change our current deal? I know Article 50 can be revoked by us without EU consent but I doubt that would stop them if they wanted to remove our rebates and opt outs. |
How exactly will 'they' remove our opt outs? Three years on and you're still getting it wrong when it comes to the EU. |  |
| |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:50 - Sep 15 with 4574 views | J2BLUE |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:47 - Sep 15 by StokieBlue |
"What you are advocating is to introduce the concept that a supposedly binding decision can be overturned again and again despite promises made if one party doesn’t like it."
This happens every general election. I think quite a few (although not me) will take issue with the term "binding decision" as it's been clearly shown the referendum was non-binding.
i agree they won't get elected, but that doesn't mean it can't be discussed.
SB |
I don't like the non binding defence because it was made very clear the result would be implemented so being non binding is a technicality.
I'd rather we just say it's absolutely not undemocratic to think again about something this big. | |
| |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:50 - Sep 15 with 4568 views | jeera |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:45 - Sep 15 by StokieBlue |
Well they can't at the moment because we have a veto and would simply veto any attempt. The could try and instigate majority voting but not sure how that would go down with some members - not well in places like Hungary I suspect.
The Germans also wouldn't want to try it, anything like that is likely to stir up more leave feeling and they don't want us to go.
So as it stands we would go back to how everything was in 2016.
SB |
Surely our chance of requesting a review of membership terms would have been in January this year when the ball was seemingly in our court for a fleeting moment:
https://www.theparliamentmagazine.eu/articles/news/129-meps-pen-heartfelt-letter |  |
| |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:52 - Sep 15 with 4551 views | jeera |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:50 - Sep 15 by J2BLUE |
I don't like the non binding defence because it was made very clear the result would be implemented so being non binding is a technicality.
I'd rather we just say it's absolutely not undemocratic to think again about something this big. |
And just put up our hands that perhaps it wasn't well thought through in the first place. | |
| |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:52 - Sep 15 with 4546 views | StokieBlue |
Why would we want to? The membership terms were advantageous compared to other countries before this whole thing started.
Going back to them wouldn't be a bad thing.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:53 - Sep 15 with 4542 views | J2BLUE |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:49 - Sep 15 by Herbivore |
How exactly will 'they' remove our opt outs? Three years on and you're still getting it wrong when it comes to the EU. |
I'm not saying they will do but if they demanded we fully commit with no veto and rebates I doubt the Lib Dems would fight too hard against it.
Just an opinion. I won't be going backwards and forwards with you all night about it. | |
| |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:53 - Sep 15 with 4542 views | StokieBlue |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:50 - Sep 15 by J2BLUE |
I don't like the non binding defence because it was made very clear the result would be implemented so being non binding is a technicality.
I'd rather we just say it's absolutely not undemocratic to think again about something this big. |
I agree, I don't like it either.
I was just pointing out that many would take issue with the way he was portraying the vote.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:55 - Sep 15 with 4533 views | StokieBlue |
| Would you vote Lib Dem to stop Brexit? on 22:53 - Sep 15 by J2BLUE |
I'm not saying they will do but if they demanded we fully commit with no veto and rebates I doubt the Lib Dems would fight too hard against it.
Just an opinion. I won't be going backwards and forwards with you all night about it. |
But they literally can't do it, it's not within their current powers.
They could ask nicely and we can then decide what we want to do. However if you're going to give them up I suspect you'll be giving up the pound as well.
SB | |
| Avatar - IC410 - Tadpoles Nebula |
| |
| |
By continuing to use the site, you agree to our use of cookies and to abide by our Terms and Conditions.
