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What exactly is your beef with this? That he is advocating an 'if it aint't broke don't fix it' approach?
He has been tweeting about Boris Johnson too:
"The madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets," Johnson was quoted as saying. "Hulk always escaped no matter how tightly bound in he seemed to be - and that is the case for this country. We will come out on October 31." (and then he ran away from appearing next to his Luxembourg counterpart because less an a hundred protesters were being noisy in the distance)
The European Parliament's Brexit coordinator, Guy Verhofstadt, said Johnson's comments showed a lack of maturity.
"Even to Trumpian standards the Hulk comparison is infantile," he tweeted. "Is the EU supposed to be scared by this? The British public impressed?"
Who'd have thought that China, India and Russia would be seen by the west as models for Europe. Dangerous times.
Where did he say that China, Russia and India were models for Europe? I took it that his point was a new World order is emerging and that Europe needs to stick together and be strong to keep up. Just because China, Russia ans India are different does not mean that they do not have history, or that Europe has some kind of self anointed right to be free from criticism. I think there have been one or two very poor examples of human behaviour within Europe over the last century.
Yeah, how dare he suggest that European countries are stronger working together in a European Framework. Next he'll probably say we should have some kind of arrangement which makes it easy to trade with each other.
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Guy Verhofstadt's speech to the LibDems on 17:44 - Sep 16 with 3051 views
Guy Verhofstadt's speech to the LibDems on 17:41 - Sep 16 by gordon
Yeah, how dare he suggest that European countries are stronger working together in a European Framework. Next he'll probably say we should have some kind of arrangement which makes it easy to trade with each other.
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
I often find c-i-l wayward (in my opinion) but usually on topic and contributing. I enjoy a humorous take on things and probably go a bit overboard in most posters view but you seem to be beyond Boris Johnson limits of infantile commenting these days.
Guy Verhofstadt's speech to the LibDems on 17:49 - Sep 16 by WeWereZombies
Mr. Moose - what does this add to the thread?
I often find c-i-l wayward (in my opinion) but usually on topic and contributing. I enjoy a humorous take on things and probably go a bit overboard in most posters view but you seem to be beyond Boris Johnson limits of infantile commenting these days.
What's the point? Those who are hell bent on leaving are beyond reach now and have been for some while. No amount of serious argument or evidence will sway them. So yeah, maybe it's infantile, but I'm sick of them and sick of the whole fecking thing. However this thing plays out the UK has been damaged and will struggle to cope with that damage for years to come.
Every day it's the same Brexit sh!te getting written over and over again in a slightly different manner (and yes, I am guilty of participating this too).
So anyway, sorry for the post, but it's the result of years of smashing my head against a Brexit brick wall. When those in a position of power don't treat Brexit seriously, it becomes hard to treat it seriously at all.
[Post edited 16 Sep 2019 17:57]
Pronouns: He/Him/His.
"Imagine being a heterosexual white male in Britain at this moment. How bad is that. Everything you say is racist, everything you say is homophobic. The Woke community have really f****d this country."
Guy Verhofstadt's speech to the LibDems on 17:31 - Sep 16 by WeWereZombies
What exactly is your beef with this? That he is advocating an 'if it aint't broke don't fix it' approach?
He has been tweeting about Boris Johnson too:
"The madder Hulk gets, the stronger Hulk gets," Johnson was quoted as saying. "Hulk always escaped no matter how tightly bound in he seemed to be - and that is the case for this country. We will come out on October 31." (and then he ran away from appearing next to his Luxembourg counterpart because less an a hundred protesters were being noisy in the distance)
The European Parliament's Brexit coordinator, Guy Verhofstadt, said Johnson's comments showed a lack of maturity.
"Even to Trumpian standards the Hulk comparison is infantile," he tweeted. "Is the EU supposed to be scared by this? The British public impressed?"
**The first 30 seconds of his speech alone talks about reform, modernisation, and "we can't continue" that doesn't square with your 'if it aint't broke don't fix it' remark.
**Apologies for the silly graphics, rest assured the audio hasn't been tampered with.
Guy Verhofstadt's speech to the LibDems on 17:36 - Sep 16 by WeWereZombies
Where did he say that China, Russia and India were models for Europe? I took it that his point was a new World order is emerging and that Europe needs to stick together and be strong to keep up. Just because China, Russia ans India are different does not mean that they do not have history, or that Europe has some kind of self anointed right to be free from criticism. I think there have been one or two very poor examples of human behaviour within Europe over the last century.
Perhaps I was unclear. It was Macron who mentioned those countries in glowing terms (especially Russia). I was just surprised that 2 or 3 weeks later, Verhofstadt was citing the same 3 countries as empires, and that the EU should also be an Empire.
Who'd have thought that China, India and Russia would be seen by the west as models for Europe. Dangerous times.
He specifically mentioned the US too, i.e. the big superstates that either currently dominate world trade & events or have the potential to through sheer economies of scale. So in that respect he’s right. We need to come together in order to compete and that requires certain alignment.
Without reopening the arguments for/against EU membership, I suppose it depends on the priorities of our leaders and us; do we want to be competitive in a global economy or are happier being a small player with little/no influence? If the former we need a united EU with us in it.
Guy Verhofstadt's speech to the LibDems on 17:41 - Sep 16 by gordon
Yeah, how dare he suggest that European countries are stronger working together in a European Framework. Next he'll probably say we should have some kind of arrangement which makes it easy to trade with each other.
Perhaps I'm being naive, but how is that different (bar the goose-stepping, homoerotic leatherwear, and intolerance to Jews and gays) to Hitler's goals 80 years ago?
Guy Verhofstadt's speech to the LibDems on 18:03 - Sep 16 by Swansea_Blue
He specifically mentioned the US too, i.e. the big superstates that either currently dominate world trade & events or have the potential to through sheer economies of scale. So in that respect he’s right. We need to come together in order to compete and that requires certain alignment.
Without reopening the arguments for/against EU membership, I suppose it depends on the priorities of our leaders and us; do we want to be competitive in a global economy or are happier being a small player with little/no influence? If the former we need a united EU with us in it.
What's wrong with the existing EU? Why don't they just sort out EU corruption? I'd take that. Do you know what reforms / modernisation he's talking about?
Guy Verhofstadt's speech to the LibDems on 17:59 - Sep 16 by caught-in-limbo
Perhaps I was unclear. It was Macron who mentioned those countries in glowing terms (especially Russia). I was just surprised that 2 or 3 weeks later, Verhofstadt was citing the same 3 countries as empires, and that the EU should also be an Empire.
He didn't say Europe should be an empire in that clip, and in his references to the United States and Russia and I took it that he was critical of their far reaching influence and that Europe needed to be strong enough to stand up to it. So I didn't hear any glowing terms.
The Macron speech I didn't catch up with so cannot comment on, and at the speed that things are moving at the moment I will not get the chance. My attention will be switching to the Israeli elections tomorrow.
The need for Europe to be allied if we're going to defend our own individual cultures and interests has been as plain as day for several decades now. And arguably was even true even when we were nominally aligned with the US or Communist empires.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Guy Verhofstadt's speech to the LibDems on 18:23 - Sep 16 with 2934 views
Guy Verhofstadt's speech to the LibDems on 17:56 - Sep 16 by caught-in-limbo
**The first 30 seconds of his speech alone talks about reform, modernisation, and "we can't continue" that doesn't square with your 'if it aint't broke don't fix it' remark.
**Apologies for the silly graphics, rest assured the audio hasn't been tampered with.
Firstly, silly graphics go nowhere near how repulsive I found that presentation of a speech propagating liberal values to a liberal conference. My mother (a lifelong Tory as it happens) travelled up from Kent to Central London throughout the Second World War, through Blitz and V2s, because of another nation being swept up in falsehoods and totalitarianism. I cannot make my objections to the stupidity of you using that clip strong enough.
To the nub of the matter, what I meant by 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' was that the European project should carry on, not in my opinion towards federalism but towards expansion so as to have the continental landmass and surrounding islands united in a legal framework that upholds the best of humanitarian values (as opposed to the brutal nature of, for example, capital punishment employed by Russia and the United States and, especially, China) and to allow the four freedoms to flourish. The fix I see as a ruination is Brexit and anyone who has been following Verhoftadt over the least three years will have seen his pleas for restraint in the apparent rush towards a United States of Europe that some advocate. I think that is why he mentioned reform in his opening remarks.
Guy Verhofstadt's speech to the LibDems on 18:23 - Sep 16 by WeWereZombies
Firstly, silly graphics go nowhere near how repulsive I found that presentation of a speech propagating liberal values to a liberal conference. My mother (a lifelong Tory as it happens) travelled up from Kent to Central London throughout the Second World War, through Blitz and V2s, because of another nation being swept up in falsehoods and totalitarianism. I cannot make my objections to the stupidity of you using that clip strong enough.
To the nub of the matter, what I meant by 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' was that the European project should carry on, not in my opinion towards federalism but towards expansion so as to have the continental landmass and surrounding islands united in a legal framework that upholds the best of humanitarian values (as opposed to the brutal nature of, for example, capital punishment employed by Russia and the United States and, especially, China) and to allow the four freedoms to flourish. The fix I see as a ruination is Brexit and anyone who has been following Verhoftadt over the least three years will have seen his pleas for restraint in the apparent rush towards a United States of Europe that some advocate. I think that is why he mentioned reform in his opening remarks.
There is an awful lot to agree with there Zombers... if only the referendum had been about what the EU could be rather than the evidence of what it was/had been. .....I appreciate that available replies include references to bath water!
"They break our legs and tell us to be grateful when they offer us crutches."
Guy Verhofstadt's speech to the LibDems on 18:23 - Sep 16 by BanksterDebtSlave
So all this talk of Empires but not a one of the Emperors gives a fig for the common man/woman....and there is the rub! The Emperors Have no Clothes !
He was talking in very broad terms about the type of World order he expects there to be for the forseeable future, he is not advocating it but says we can do little about it but should do our best to deal with it. For what it is worth I see the his analysis a bit lacking with no mention of African or South American nations but he did at least acknowledge that the United States is not the only power that is empire building (although they would no doubt prefer sphere of influence). I think what you are looking for is which power bloc is most likely to deliver equality, what type of Europe do think can do that?
Guy Verhofstadt's speech to the LibDems on 18:35 - Sep 16 by BanksterDebtSlave
There is an awful lot to agree with there Zombers... if only the referendum had been about what the EU could be rather than the evidence of what it was/had been. .....I appreciate that available replies include references to bath water!
What evidence of "what it was/had been"?
The EU isn't perfect but it's been a particularly British disease that has seen us as mainstream sceptics alongside some mostly fringe and racist loons from the other countries.
Compared to the evidence of our own Union's incompetence, bureaucracy and lack of respect for member countries and citizens, the EU looks to be something for us to aspire to.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Guy Verhofstadt's speech to the LibDems on 18:42 - Sep 16 with 2882 views
Guy Verhofstadt's speech to the LibDems on 18:04 - Sep 16 by caught-in-limbo
Perhaps I'm being naive, but how is that different (bar the goose-stepping, homoerotic leatherwear, and intolerance to Jews and gays) to Hitler's goals 80 years ago?
Remind us, what we’re his specific goals in 1939 that you are referencing?
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Guy Verhofstadt's speech to the LibDems on 18:46 - Sep 16 with 2869 views
Guy Verhofstadt's speech to the LibDems on 18:23 - Sep 16 by WeWereZombies
Firstly, silly graphics go nowhere near how repulsive I found that presentation of a speech propagating liberal values to a liberal conference. My mother (a lifelong Tory as it happens) travelled up from Kent to Central London throughout the Second World War, through Blitz and V2s, because of another nation being swept up in falsehoods and totalitarianism. I cannot make my objections to the stupidity of you using that clip strong enough.
To the nub of the matter, what I meant by 'if it ain't broke don't fix it' was that the European project should carry on, not in my opinion towards federalism but towards expansion so as to have the continental landmass and surrounding islands united in a legal framework that upholds the best of humanitarian values (as opposed to the brutal nature of, for example, capital punishment employed by Russia and the United States and, especially, China) and to allow the four freedoms to flourish. The fix I see as a ruination is Brexit and anyone who has been following Verhoftadt over the least three years will have seen his pleas for restraint in the apparent rush towards a United States of Europe that some advocate. I think that is why he mentioned reform in his opening remarks.
Agree 100%.
Clownish and offensive attempt to frame and misrepresent something that already has a real frame in a functioning EU. Also totally ignored the thrust of Verhofstadt's speech.
Pronouns: He/Him
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Guy Verhofstadt's speech to the LibDems on 18:46 - Sep 16 with 2869 views
In 2017, Verhofstadt opposed the Catalan independence referendum, but also denounced Spain's use of violence. Verhofstadt said that "referendum lacked basic democratic legitimacy." According to Verhofstadt, the former Catalan president Carles Puigdemont "left Catalonia in chaos and devastation."
Imagine the outrage if one of us had suggested that, for example, the Farnborough Air Show should feature a mock up of Guernica...
Guy Verhofstadt's speech to the LibDems on 18:19 - Sep 16 by Darth_Koont
Not sure you know what you're complaining about.
The need for Europe to be allied if we're going to defend our own individual cultures and interests has been as plain as day for several decades now. And arguably was even true even when we were nominally aligned with the US or Communist empires.
"The need for Europe to be allied if we're going to defend our own individual cultures and interests has been as plain as day for several decades now."
We are allied. I've got no problem with being allied. But Verhofstadt isn't talking about maintaining the status quo, he's talking about an EU Empire. I can't remember the last time an Empire defended individual cultures and interests, apart from the cultures which run the Empires.
Iceland, Norway and Switzerland are not in the EU, have they lost their identities? If so, what have they lost exactly?
Guy Verhofstadt's speech to the LibDems on 18:56 - Sep 16 by caught-in-limbo
"The need for Europe to be allied if we're going to defend our own individual cultures and interests has been as plain as day for several decades now."
We are allied. I've got no problem with being allied. But Verhofstadt isn't talking about maintaining the status quo, he's talking about an EU Empire. I can't remember the last time an Empire defended individual cultures and interests, apart from the cultures which run the Empires.
Iceland, Norway and Switzerland are not in the EU, have they lost their identities? If so, what have they lost exactly?
Go off and have a go at someone else then when it has been made clear to you that he is not talking about advancing a European empire.
Guy Verhofstadt's speech to the LibDems on 18:56 - Sep 16 by caught-in-limbo
"The need for Europe to be allied if we're going to defend our own individual cultures and interests has been as plain as day for several decades now."
We are allied. I've got no problem with being allied. But Verhofstadt isn't talking about maintaining the status quo, he's talking about an EU Empire. I can't remember the last time an Empire defended individual cultures and interests, apart from the cultures which run the Empires.
Iceland, Norway and Switzerland are not in the EU, have they lost their identities? If so, what have they lost exactly?
Who's talking about an empire?
It's a trade bloc and single market, which is why Iceland, Norway and Switzerland are integral parts despite not being EU members.
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