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Labour descending into civil war it seems 22:25 - Sep 20 with 1518 viewsStokieBlue

Really unhelpful at a time when we need them focused and challenging the nonsense of Boris.

Motions tabled today to remove the post of deputy leader in order to get around the rules and get rid of Watson. Can only see that bringing back the divisions of the PLP vs NEC at a really unhelpful time when they need to hold Boris to account for the total shower that he is.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/20/momentum-bid-to-abolish-deputy-

SB

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Labour descending into civil war it seems on 22:36 - Sep 20 with 1488 viewsjeera

They just do not help themselves do they.

Can they not squabble behind closed doors for now at least and sort out who's who without allowing the continued mess public?

The party needs stripping back to whatever it bloody well is they're supposed to believe and regroup from there.

Without the racist element and without the ongoing in-house conflict.

There's a potential election to be won out there and no one capable of stepping up.

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Labour descending into civil war it seems on 23:42 - Sep 20 with 1425 viewsGuthrum

Perhaps we need to stop thinking of them as the only viable challenge to the Government. After all, it's that attitude they're relying on to attract voters.

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Labour descending into civil war it seems on 23:52 - Sep 20 with 1402 viewsSwansea_Blue

Sorry SB I hadn't seen this and posted similar. It's been a mad couple of days for them, that's for sure.

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Labour descending into civil war it seems on 00:12 - Sep 21 with 1378 viewsSwansea_Blue

Labour descending into civil war it seems on 23:42 - Sep 20 by Guthrum

Perhaps we need to stop thinking of them as the only viable challenge to the Government. After all, it's that attitude they're relying on to attract voters.


Absolutely, they don't seem in any way suitable to lead at the moment. Trouble is FPTP and all that.

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Labour descending into civil war it seems on 00:31 - Sep 21 with 1355 viewsGuthrum

Labour descending into civil war it seems on 00:12 - Sep 21 by Swansea_Blue

Absolutely, they don't seem in any way suitable to lead at the moment. Trouble is FPTP and all that.


FPTP is a bit of an excuse. It only favours the big parties if they can hold onto their core and broaden their appeal. With Lab and Con apparently trying their hardest to shatter both elements of that, there is a possibility that others can pick up seats.

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Labour descending into civil war it seems on 01:04 - Sep 21 with 1324 viewsSwansea_Blue

Labour descending into civil war it seems on 00:31 - Sep 21 by Guthrum

FPTP is a bit of an excuse. It only favours the big parties if they can hold onto their core and broaden their appeal. With Lab and Con apparently trying their hardest to shatter both elements of that, there is a possibility that others can pick up seats.


Hope so. Something's got to give as the big too have become far too complacent.

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Labour descending into civil war it seems on 08:13 - Sep 21 with 1206 viewsmidastouch

Newsnight covered this as well last night if you want to watch it on iPlayer. Was on for about 10 to 15 mins at the start before they went on to cover the climate protests.

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Labour descending into civil war it seems on 09:19 - Sep 21 with 1167 viewsGuthrum

Labour descending into civil war it seems on 01:04 - Sep 21 by Swansea_Blue

Hope so. Something's got to give as the big too have become far too complacent.


Further to those thoughts, it's not FPTP which is the real issue, but the difficulty and unwillingness of politicians to form proper coalitions and move between parties as their conscience* takes them. Let alone stepping out into new groupings and parties. Reduces everything to a choice between a couple of more or less unsatisfying groups.

Fortunately, those problems seem to be breaking down over the last decade. Two out of the three most recent elections have resulted in government by coalition or alliance. MPs are defecting with increasing frequency, or becoming independents. With the TIGgers and UKIP/Brexit Party, we're getting more groupings to choose from.


* Or the possibility of winning elections. Generally scoffed at, but actually a vital thing. Without it you can only oppose, not actually get anything done.

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Labour descending into civil war it seems on 10:24 - Sep 21 with 1121 viewsPinewoodblue

Labour descending into civil war it seems on 09:19 - Sep 21 by Guthrum

Further to those thoughts, it's not FPTP which is the real issue, but the difficulty and unwillingness of politicians to form proper coalitions and move between parties as their conscience* takes them. Let alone stepping out into new groupings and parties. Reduces everything to a choice between a couple of more or less unsatisfying groups.

Fortunately, those problems seem to be breaking down over the last decade. Two out of the three most recent elections have resulted in government by coalition or alliance. MPs are defecting with increasing frequency, or becoming independents. With the TIGgers and UKIP/Brexit Party, we're getting more groupings to choose from.


* Or the possibility of winning elections. Generally scoffed at, but actually a vital thing. Without it you can only oppose, not actually get anything done.


Trouble is the Tories can drop 10 points and end up with more seats. LibDems to win 60_70 seats but allowing Tories to gain seats from Labour. Anyone's guess as to who forms the next government.

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Labour descending into civil war it seems on 10:35 - Sep 21 with 1112 viewsTrequartista

With the government shambles, Stalinist purges in Labour, the LibDems seeking to cancel brexit and the earth practically on fire it would appear that the Green Party are the best option at an election!

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Labour descending into civil war it seems on 10:37 - Sep 21 with 1106 viewsGuthrum

Labour descending into civil war it seems on 10:24 - Sep 21 by Pinewoodblue

Trouble is the Tories can drop 10 points and end up with more seats. LibDems to win 60_70 seats but allowing Tories to gain seats from Labour. Anyone's guess as to who forms the next government.


But that can work both ways. The Conservatives increased their share of the vote in 2017 (from 39.6% to 42.4%), but won fewer seats (330 down to 317) and lost their majority.

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Labour descending into civil war it seems on 11:05 - Sep 21 with 1078 viewsPinewoodblue

Labour descending into civil war it seems on 10:37 - Sep 21 by Guthrum

But that can work both ways. The Conservatives increased their share of the vote in 2017 (from 39.6% to 42.4%), but won fewer seats (330 down to 317) and lost their majority.


2017 really was a two party affair, even the SNP lost 21 seats. Labour and Conservative MPs, even without DUP , took 90% of the seats.

Tories will be brushed aside in Scotland as presumably will Labour. Difficult to see LibDems and SNP in same alliance with the former opposed to a second referendum on independence.

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Labour descending into civil war it seems on 12:07 - Sep 21 with 1053 viewsgazzer1999

Labour descending into civil war it seems on 10:35 - Sep 21 by Trequartista

With the government shambles, Stalinist purges in Labour, the LibDems seeking to cancel brexit and the earth practically on fire it would appear that the Green Party are the best option at an election!


You have to understand that the majority in parliament are wanting to stay in the EU, however the people decided differently. All this current government is trying to do is implement what all parties agreed which is to respect the result. However all the parties have done is to frustrate the process, Libdems because they don't want to leave, Tories trying to please both sides (even though they are really a party of remain) and the Labour party, well who knows what that shower thinks, Corbyn has voted against everything to do with the EU since he became an MP, he really is an outer. For years banging on about wanting a GE, and when he gets the opportunity votes against it, obviously knows they will be decimated at the polls.
I am sorry I don't share your views regarding the greens, but I am not ready for going back to horse and carts and candles for lighting just yet. (sorry if that offends but I am allowed an opinion).
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Labour descending into civil war it seems on 12:17 - Sep 21 with 1039 viewsTrequartista

Labour descending into civil war it seems on 12:07 - Sep 21 by gazzer1999

You have to understand that the majority in parliament are wanting to stay in the EU, however the people decided differently. All this current government is trying to do is implement what all parties agreed which is to respect the result. However all the parties have done is to frustrate the process, Libdems because they don't want to leave, Tories trying to please both sides (even though they are really a party of remain) and the Labour party, well who knows what that shower thinks, Corbyn has voted against everything to do with the EU since he became an MP, he really is an outer. For years banging on about wanting a GE, and when he gets the opportunity votes against it, obviously knows they will be decimated at the polls.
I am sorry I don't share your views regarding the greens, but I am not ready for going back to horse and carts and candles for lighting just yet. (sorry if that offends but I am allowed an opinion).


I haven't really given my views on the greens, I don't know much about their policies other than the obvious environmental ones, and have never voted for them before. But in the absence of a "none of the above" option, they might come into my thinking.

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